Idea - Tradeskill Epic

[Baldary]

The thing with Aid Grimel, was that it required only a 220 skill in each tradeskill. Most of us know that getting to that level is not that difficult. So, to get one of, if not the best, earrings in the game, many of the high end raiders jumped on the tradeskill bandwagon.

I like the idea of a tradeskill epic being a charm since very few, if any, charms have class specific effects.

I also like the idea of the epic reward being scalable since you do not need to be level 70 to have high level tradeskills.

The reward should be tiered the way that tradeskill titles are issued. In order to get the "expert" version, all tradeskills would need to be 250. In order to get the "master" version, all tradeskills would need to be 300, etc.

The complexity of the tradeskilling stuff needs to be at least as complex as building an AAAA, although obtaining the drops necessary should be doable by characters at lower levels than 70. Many of the required drops should be No Trade to preclude "farming" for plat operations.

The required drops should be obtainable primarily solo, although some grouping would be fine. Raiding should not be required since that would likely eliminate many from the possibility of obtaining the best item.

The best item reward should be exceptional to reward the people with all skills at 300. There are not many and it would be a daunting task for non tradeskillers to get all skills to 300.

Only the seven major tradeskills, open to all classes, should matter in the tradeskill epic quest.

Baldary

[Ddemons Ddemise]

mmk, combine Baldary's with the one i agreed with earlier (making it RPG elements) and you got the PERFECT idea- it goes with my idea of "multiple epics", it is quite possible to scale stuff (MM rewards anyone?), would make it easier on us without the money to get it all to 300
hmm.. how about a charm with some sort of clicky effect/title reward with it? see- clicky effect i dunno.. makes your armor sparkle *shrugs* just give me some shinies and im happy

[Queletan]

How about a banker pet. Only summonable in zones with a bank, maybe all city zones and maybe newbie zones. Only has the first 8 slots available.

Running around PoK being followed by a clockwork named "Queletan's Banker" would certainly turn some heads, but it doesn't do much aside from cut down on some wasted time when I brought the wrong hammer to the forge.

*edit: had another idea, probably impossible to implement, but what the hey . Tradeskillers Note of Credit. Only works in zones with a bank, when you have it on you and you make a purchase it deducts the money straight from your bank account... No more running around with 15k to buy all the parts you need for something, or forgetting you ran out when you see something you really want.

Q

[Wymp]

I keep coming back to a charm as the most likely "universally" beneficial slot for our mythical tradeskill epic to be worn in all the time. And I do kinda like the idea of effects on it, if it's possible. An Improved Salvage effect might be handy, indeed; but no illusion crap, please .. unless they make em work with necro lich, lol.

Myself, as a raider, I do have access to rather nice gear and usually need every bit of help it adds to stay alive, heh. So, anything that drops my stats is simply not ever worn. And before anyone says it .. yes, it could be worn while not raiding or whatever, but what's the point of having an Almighty Tradeskill Doodad that stays in a bag 90% of the time for many of us? It should be designed for a slot that will provide maximum benefit all the time for the most people .. a charm. Preferably one that doesn't have some retarded condition for it's stats. Just a set-strength charm like the PoP figurine.

About scaling the strength -- Rec/Req levels would be unfair to lower level players with high tradeskills and might even work out better somehow for a lesser-skilled level 70 player depending how the math could work out at varying skill levels.

Maybe a better way to work it is like Aid Grimel and BiC .. each stage you went through produced a progressively better item. Maybe use a similar process checking against your average of the 7 base tradeskills as the gauge for how far you can proceed through the quest combines. Since it appears we all think the top reward for this quest should be for those with all skills at 300, this seems like a good way to do it, I think. Sure some of us are higher in some skills than others, but the goal is to reward maxxed out tradeskills, so it will mean boosting your average to be able to boost your epic tradeskill charm through further quest combines.

While, as a gnome, I'd love to have Tinkering considered (as I'm sure shamans and rogues would like theirs), I do have to agree that it should just be based off the 7 basic ones .. even though fletching is still a pain for most of us, heh.

For example: Say your average of the seven skills is 200 - you could do 4 of 6 total combines. At 100, you could do 2 .. at 300, all 6 and create a final item. (fictional numbers based on 50 skill increments)



Also, I don't think trophy evolutions should be considered for this quest. First - PoR is not required to achieve 300 skills and some people don't have the expansion and may never have it for whatever reason; so using the trophy evolutions would be unfair to them. Second - in all honesty, evolving a trophy really has nothing whatsoever to do with actual skill, anyway ... it's simply a bonus for more mindless clicking.

[Ddemons Ddemise]

It was mentioned earlier but kind of glossed over -

The coding is probably minimal since salvage is available to all 51+ as an AA, and isn't cultural or racially based.
-Ikken

just a small note- Salvage is required of 60 (i just checked, i have EQ up atm..)

[seini]

Running around PoK being followed by a clockwork named "Queletan's Banker" would certainly turn some heads...

Q

Sorry for the hijack, but I could not resist..

A summonable vampire lawyer "Seini's Barrister" which has the effect of draining you target's pocket change when your target insults you...

Just Kidding... now, back to your regularly scheduled converstion.

By the way, I like the idea of a tradeskill epic. A reward for a tremendous amount of effort. One for the basic 7 with extra augments for the racial skills. A gnome caster can have 9, correct?

[Wymp]

Gnome casters could get 9 to 300, yes .. as could gnome rogues.


Edit -- And, this does need to be limited to the 7 base skills. Not every race/class has an 8th or 9th skill available to them; so it'd be unfair, really, to allow only a few to benefit further just cause we chose a different toon years ago.

[Lillanu]

Gnome casters could get 9 to 300, yes .. as could gnome rogues.


Edit -- And, this does need to be limited to the 7 base skills. Not every race/class has an 8th or 9th skill available to them; so it'd be unfair, really, to allow only a few to benefit further just cause we chose a different toon years ago.

Hey! You forgot Gnome Shamans!

[Thalia]

Tradeskill epic

I agree with those that say that there should be a minimum tradeskill level for the quest NPC to talk to you. Since Tailoring and Fletching have been so difficult to raise I wouldn't put them at 300 though. Fletching is somewhat easy until 282 (that is where I am stuck). I would suggest making the level 290 since it would take some effort to get there. Also I would not want to see this quest go live until the bought path for Wood elves and Karana worshipers were fixed. I favor a challenge, but the challenge has to be a challenge for all who go for it and not favor any group over another.

Not favoring any group over another also goes into the subject of poisonmaking, research, tinkering and alchemy. Including any of these in the quest would give and advantage to a set group of people and so they should not be used.

Since we have already had 2 earring quests (one earring quest has a side result in a charm) and one shawl quest, I would think a ring quest would be appropriate. DoN Gm armors may not be usable by all the classes (due to component rareity) but I see no need to replace any of the slots that are covered by GM armors. This leaves us with necklace, rings and waist items. Waist and neck items are easy to get and would replace the quest item in no time and make the quest worthless to do. This being said I favor a ring quest.

Having unlocked my PoP progression charm a few months back doing the Aide Grimel quest I really don't like the idea of making a charm, unless this charm has a huge gain on the PoP progression charm. It just doesn't make sense to trump a gain on a previous tradskill quest when you have other options.

I do favor making the item something that is useable whether you are exping,farming or doing combines. Afterall you do need exp to get AA's for tradeskill abilities so you can not say that stat worn stat items have no use for a tradeskiller. The salvage idea really benefits those who are doing a lot of combines of items with trivials way over the skill level of the player. With Salvage 2 I get a few saves but I am close enough to the trivial of most of the items I make that I don't have that many fails to save.

I agree on the points that the items obtained to do the quest should not come from raids. One the other hand I do not think that having single group encounters is a bad idea. Keep in mind though if the items are to be obtained in instance zones that most casual tradeskillers are not geared out the wazoo. Making the instance depend on them having great gear to kill the mobs may be considered unfair. I know a few casual players that are still working on the GM aug patterns because they do have a tank in group level but the tank can not withstand the hits that the mobs deal out and so no progress is made on those quests. Making it an instance to keep raiding guilds from keeping casual players back is good. Making the instance require that the players have raiding level gear is bad....it just makes it so the raiding level guild can get what they need and the casual player can't.

The hardest part of doing the Aide Grimel quest for me wasn't getting the flags. It was tough but not the hardest part. The hardest part was getting drops from the zones that you had to be flagged to get into. Even though I was flagged many in my guild/grouping circle were not. This is fairly common in a casual family guild. We are allied with other guidls for raid but when it comes down to groupable stuff we didn't have enough flagged of the right class to get the drops. It's very frustrating to have a pally, enchanter and wizard and no healer because the healer isn't flagged. For this reason I do not favor any drops being in a flagged zone.

I have not made any assessments of rings in game so I do not know what would be comparable to raiding level rings. With my given schedule I may never have that chance to do a comparison but who knows in a couple months I may get some time off work, lol.

Damaya 68 Wizard
Knights of Namaskar <Prexus>
Fletching 282 (304), Tailoring 286 (308), Jewelcraft 297 (320), Blacksmithing 300 (336), Pottery 300 (336), Baking 300 (345), Brewing 300 (345), Research 208 (218)

[Zacatac]

I like the idea of a charm becuase its scalable. I think something that rewards Artisans of all levels, Expert and above, would be great, not just the very top of the profession, the Master Artisans.

To keep the formula simple, you could set the charm to be linked to your weakest tradeskill. So if you have all maxed at around 250, but one is at 100, your charm would be in line with your 100 skill tradeskill.

Only thing I'm uncertain about is whether the classes that have access to extra tradeskills should have a benefit from maxing those too. It doesnt seem fair I would be able to max a charm more than a warrior, simply becuase I had an extra tradeskill, research, that they could never have access to. And it would offer a very unfair advantage to the few gnome rogues and casters out there who can max a theoretical 9 tradeskills. But then anyone mad enough to have actually maxed 9 tradeskills deserves every reward going in my book.

I like the idea of the charm too, but as you said, that's where you will get into a debate over just how to calculate it.

If you let a gnome rogue with tinkering and poision making count 2 extra tradeskills, is that fair to others? Is fair to him if you don't?

I personally have spent 98% of my tradeskill time doing spell research during the last 6 months. Is it fair that I don't get something for all that time? Is it fair to the warrior who can't do it that I get extra points?

I'd be willing to go with a charm that has max value once you reach 2000 total combined points, and include all tradeskills, racial and class included. It might be easier for some to do, but it's still 2000 skill-ups.

The charm could have "Aid Grimel" type system, where you must have all above 230 to even attempt the combines, and all 7 primary tradeskills would be used to complete it. At max value, say +200 hp/mana and +20 to all stats. It wouldn't be the best charm in the game, and if the raiders all want one, let them go skill up and do it.

[Milowfv]

First off I am a high end raider and my TS range from 231 to 300 (yeah the easy ones are 300 go figure).

I like the idea of TS epic item, but I think the skill cut off should be closer to the 290-300 range vs the 275 or lower. This is about giving something to the folks that have hit 300 and max out thier trophy and is nice. Some one might say that raiding take a billion hours of hard work and all I get is 1 350hp/mana item and I have to say that hitting 300 in all TS is more work then getting an item from DP.

An augment will have more value longer then an item also I think. Each stage can be given out and involved lot of sub parts like the AG quest, but I think it shoudnt require any raiding to do. As to being able to solo it I don't know, but I do agree if you do something like this the hardest part should be the pain and effort getting tailoring to 290 plus. Not saying that the questing shouldnt be challanging, but I dont see any reason to have to slay Devlin to progress the quest.

I did love the idea of the trade skill focus on salvage, not just make it so it returns the rare drop and not the water for me :-(.

[tuis]

"and a maybe a faction modifier for traders around the world."

YES. On Tallon Zek my faction with most races went straight to hell quick, fast, and in a hurry. An item that granted at least apprehensive faction with all merchants would be sweet. As it is I can't go anywhere near the elves, kaladim merchants say no, Neriak, Ogguk, and Grobb say hell no, Freeport the same. High Pass merchants don't like me, though the guards do =p. Half of Jaggedpine wants my scalp. Shadowhaven nope.

It'd be like a Platinum Card for merchants. Oooo, I hate you you filthy human, but my my, you have the Platinum Card...how may I help you? No hassles, indeed!

[Kibber]

I am not a high end raider as such; raid 3 times a week at the most, and just entered qvic with all the goodies there.

I am also a 264-300 TS'er. Tailoring as my lowest, Fletching me next lowest, being a dwarf and all

My boast is that anyone with a small effort can get to 220 in all the 7 primary tradeskills, and to 250 for some effort. Its the last 20 skill points in most of the tradeskills thats a pain, and those that should be most rewarding if an item of this kind should be made.

However some classes/races have a far easier path to 300 in all tradeskills than many others, tailoring and fletching especially as the unbalancing skills. Up til now this hasn't been anything more of an issue than what people could write on their custom signature or check on eqrankings. However if it means aquiring an uber item from tradeskilling, I might just reroll my dwarf paladin and get a half elf ranger instead, and get the ranger to 0 to 300 in all skills before I attempt to get my dwarf the rest of the way in tailoring and fletching...

I do like the idea of this epic. I don't care if its visible, none of the other tradeskill quests have been, its been more than enough at the time just to link the shawl, or the 2 Aid Grimel earrings to people, in order to bask in peoples envy! However restricting it to a charm only slot is silly. Make it an all slot item or all type augment. With a restriction of 290 TS average, or 290 in all skills minimum, to even begin the quest.

Also a note on fleecing people with your cheaply aquired tradeskills... You have to be the first, if not that then maybe 2nd will do, in a tradeskill area if you want to make money out of anything. Once another person reaches the same skill in that level, and wants to spend time making money on it (and it does take time) then the profits significantly decrease, if not go away all together. I made some money making the old cultural armour for dwarves. Enough to pay for my quite horrendous expenses getting the skill up at the time. It also made me enough to pay partially for skilling up tailoring. Later on when GM armour came out, we were 3 dwarves on my server making the stuff, and it was impossible to make a profit. Much better just to farm the scales/hides/silks and sell those, rather than risk it all in a high trivial combine that doesn't really use the last hard earned skill points anyway in checking the success of the combine. Which a necro with 0 in all skills, rather than a highly skilled dwarf, is more suited for

So, actually, the more I think about it, the more I'd like this epic to happen. As it is now all I get to show for my hard work, is the Master title and trophy. Not much else there to strive for. Having an item that makes other people go *gasp, thats insane!* and then go *Oh, hes a tradeskiller, they aren't right in the head anyway* would make it worth it!!

Kibber, The Rathe

[Wyora]

I love the idea of a tradeskill quest where the reward scales to what your tradeskills are. While the idea of a charm is nice, I'd like an aug even more. There are some raiding tradeskillers that have very nice charms that might not want to swap this slot. Same with any piece of gear. Everyone has aug slots and it gives more freedom where to place the reward. Make the quest similar to the BiC aug, where its divided up into different steps, but don't make them linear (meaning you can accomplish any tradeskill in any order).

As for scaling stats to reward different levels of tradeskills, use a system similar to the tradeskill trophy task system. Have a quest NPC for each tradeskill. When you hail the quest NPC, he gives you a set of tasks to accomplish appropriate to your skill level. If you get some skill-ups and want "upgrade" your aug to reflect your new skill level, hail the appropriate NPC, and accomplish the new task list for the increased reward.

I see this as a mix of mechanics from BiC, the Coldain aug, and the tradeskill trophy task system.

[Anerak]

/ponder

I'd like to see a new quest. One that truly tests the patience of every hardcore tradeskiller and one that yields a reward so great that it inspires the tradeskill haters to seriously consider tradeskills as something that might actually be worth doing.

What would a Master Artisan do in RL if he had all these amazing talents? I think that he/she would attempt to create an "epic" creation that used all of his skills and pushed the limits so he could create that masterpiece that few could even attempt to duplicate.

i'm bored at work, and just skimmed over the thread, and maybe someone suggested, but the thing that popped to mind...something that uses all skills: a house. maybe not a big one, or one that you can "zone" into like eq2. but it's a living testament to your work. "home sweet home of <enter name here" "this guild hall built by <me>" or something.

it's silly and would probably never ever happen. but it makes me smile to think about it.