Idea - Tradeskill Epic

[Maevenniia]

Ngreth, I agree with you, being "forced" to group is not so bad...being forced to RAID though...no thanks. (I do raid, but tradeskill drops only available from raids make me want to scream, hehe)

A mixture of drops being available in instances and static zones would work, I'm sure, esp if many of the drops are NO TRADE and the minimum skill caps 275+, and as Wymp said. Then they will be like the BiC parts...not desired by anyone except those doing the quest....esp if the tradeskill quest is long and involved like BiC.

[Ikken]

I think a tradeskill epic charm would be a very fair item. Currently the only player made charms are not worth the expense or effort, most requiring mythical drops of coarse silk (I still haven't see a one, so they're a myth to me. ) as well as metallic drake scales which are better used in armor itself.

Not to mention once made the stats are abysmal even with full DoN Cultural armor equipped.

I think a player made charm requiring high tradeskills (say, 200+) and whose stats are based according to your unmodified tradeskill totals would be superb.

Limit the max stats to nothing better than a raid droppable charm and you shouldn't have too many guilds trying to monopolize them. Who would want to spend the months of time and effort or even just the money when your guild can get a similiar drop from a raid?

A stat heavy charm wouldn't be game breaking, and if it were - well, tier multiple charms like DoN Cultural - make Expert, Journeyman, Master, and Grandmaster Artisan charms.

Just a thought.

-Ikken

[Taushar]

Here is my thought on this. If this is to be fair, it would have to be a very nice item but soloable. I would say the most fair way to do it would be to do a quest that is monumental in combines. What I mean is rather than taking a few hard to find, hard to get item from impossible to get in to zones, take a lot of items from normal zones where we can solo items to do combines that require high level skills.

For example, items like sickles or picnics are not too difficult to make but takes a lot of effort, time, skill and combines. Take about 100 of those combines/quest which are obtainable from solo quests or hunts. Make them items rare if you have to where we have to farm for hours to get one of many drops we need for one of items. This quest should reward the journey, persistence and high skills rather than high levels, flags/keys and AAs.

Just a thought.

Taushar

[Newcromancer]

My 2 cents

This thought seems to follow from a false idea (false to me anyway). Most of the people I have met who have maxed tradeskills are those who are in the high end guilds with more plat in their account than you or I will ever see. Most of them just have the money to buy everything they need to skill up or have access to those hard to get no drop items.

The reward in trades is already there. How many of you made a killing with GoD spells already? How many when cutting augs was new? On and on and on. The trophies are a nice addition but should be the end of that.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea but I just don't think it could be implemented in a way that would be all that great. It should be all soloable/no drop good enough that a guildless player would want it but bad enough so that a high end player would not want it for an alt. Kind of hard to do imo.

[Ddemons Ddemise]

ok i have an idea- why not make.. 3 epics? (sometin like epic 1.0 1.5 2.0 ..with 1.0- 200 in everything, 1.5 250, 2.0 300..)
put required lvl of. 51 for 1.0 (like normal one) ..i dunno anything on 1.5/2.0 but i suppose.. 60/65 for 1.5 and 70 for 2.0? *shrugs* im not good with making up items
and make it a good item for THOSE levels, would be a fun idea- i might actually start my normal 1.0 (lol-i would switch between epic/TS epic so i wouldnt get bored of normal one)
though- there are a few "solo instanced zones" already-they dont matter too much i would say- the newbie armor quests instances of crushbone/Runnyeye/that other one (i forget the name) can be soloed- makes it easier to get in, kill zone, drop task, zone in ..repeat.. (i used it in Runnyeye for faction/ a Black Alloy Medallion hehe)

[Ikken]

Newcromancer -

Wow. No, you do have a false idea there. Most of us do not have millions in the bank. Nor are most tradeskillers in a high end guild with nothing better to do. Tradeskilling is not a great money making enterprise (though, ironically farming hard to find tradeskill items IS). Most of us are happy just to recoup our losses when we get to the end of a particular tradeskill.

I for one drop any profits from any successful combine right back into tradeskills - I'm almost 250 in all and still basically working with the same 100k I started with.

The only ones that make a 'killing' on anything are those who don't tradeskill and just happen to get that rare drop we're looking for - initial investment for them is zero, and whatever they sell if for in the bazaar is pure profit, at whatever price the market will bear.

People who get into tradeskills for the money find out very fast its not a good plat maker.

-Ikken

[Newcromancer]

Well, I certainly am not saying everyone who does trades is that way. However, if you look at who is selling 61-65 and GoD spells (for a hefty price I might add) it is all people who maxed out by buying components from DoDH and could buy all they needed to skill up. This is on my server. Check yours. I'm not talking about the person who has an odd or end spell for sale here or there. I'm talking the people with over 100 high priced (that are selling well) spells flying off the shelves. I see a lot of those people.

I know what you are talking about as I am in about the same position as you I would guess being fairly broke. But on my server it is not like that. And I do know a LOT of people from high end guilds who made and are making literally millions of plat off of trades. A great exaple (perhaps classic) was when PoP was new and valorium rings were going for 50k or so. I know who made the killing and it wasn't poor joe smoe. It was those who had the money to max the skill in a day when they say the potential. Heck, I made over 100k on them when they were basically junk and I am pretty casual as a tradesman.

Sure there are "casual" skillers. But honestly, those people are not making the kind of profits I am talking about. I just think that it would be a difficult idea to implement because of this.

[sirwmholder]

I have been reading this thread with great interest and I have come up with an interesting idea... add a Grandmaster Tradeskill Taskgiver that has knowledge on how using various tradeskills one can strengthen an otherwise ordinary charm. S/he goes on to ask if you are interested in learning this technique. When you reply yes s/he hands you charm with no stats. The taskgiver then checks to see what level 7 evolved tradeskill trophy you have equipped in primary and will assign you a tradeskill task accordingly. At the end of the task you receive/create a mythical augment for that tradeskill. Equip the next trophy and do the next task... rinse repeat. The charm you received at the beginning has 7 augment slots (If possible these should be invisible slots similar to the Epic Augment Quest) that will only except the tradeskill augments. That way tradeskill task can be done in any order and those who have only mastered one or two tradeskills can still receive some benefit. If the devs have the time and were so inclined they could even tier the various augments based on current level of Tradeskill Trophy equipped instead of requiring only masters... though requiring only Masters is a trade off that should boost the end item to high end raid gear. Especially since you are looking at people who not only have 300 in skill but have made the combines to level their trophies to 7.

Anyway just an idea,
Warsol ~ Prexus

[Sharrien]

How about a charm slot item that gets better the higher your TS total is in the 7 common tradeskills? It would have to have at least 2 slots tho, just like other charms created with tradeskills.

I read some of the above posts and a lot of it is more of a raider vs. non-raider debate. You can't make it too easy or everyone will have it and it won't be any fun to make. How about instead of most of the drops coming from difficult mobs, make the combines for the quest only possible in certain containers placed remotely throughout Norrath and even in instanced dungeons. Where would a tradeskiller go to find the parts needed to assemble a masterpiece? Talking to diverse venders who might make a deal on a special item for someone who can prove their skill or do them a little favor. Or maybe swimming to the bottom of a remote corner of the Ocean of Tears to get a bit of Self-Aware Coral from under an unkillable KOS kraken that can be distracted for a few seconds if you give some brewed-up steroids to several of his favorite food that are swimming around. Make the ground spawn item TEMP so that it must be combined in a Portable Suspended Animation Chamber you brought along or else it dies... There are ways of making a quest interesting and difficult without requiring Tunat's left nut for a combine and a raid force to get it from him.

I would see the combines for this quest being very high indeed, 400+ at least. Hard enough that people would consider getting mastery AA just for a combine that is one step in the greater quest. Skill restricted in the 250+ range or maybe only available to people who have achieved certain titles. None of the components should be available in the zones where the combine takes place, each attempt should require lots of preparation so that when you finally get a success it's cause for celebration. Hardly any of the components should be droppable. The number of sub-combines for a tradeskill epic should also rival that of the AAAA at least. I think tradeskillers in general like things the more complex they are and ways we can use our wits and some luck to achieve our goals.

[Ddemons Ddemise]

nice idea Sharrien- makes for an interesting Roleplaying experience at the very least- would be nice to combine both of our ideas imo, to have the 3 epics, done like that ( and for each epic have the trivials 100-200 above the skill level required for that quest..so, 1.0 epic triv in the 300-400 range, since required of 200 ..and such like that)
my only problem with suggesting only 1 epic item for ONLY those who have 300 in all tradeskills is-not all of us have that kind of cash- ask my guild, i blow every little bit i make on tradeskills, and i still dont have Journeyman Artisan-though im working on it
combining the ideas in the first paragraph would make the epic 1.0 on par with difficulty of normal 1.0s imo (trying to get a 300/400 triv combine at 200 skill might take awhile)
just my ideas combined with others
would like to add- a quest like this post suggests i would gladly spend a YEAR or more of time on without problem, i have given up multiple PLing groups for tradeskills in the last week (warrior in guild is bored all the time, and takes the cleric who is working on epic all over the place for xp- and drags whoever wants to come along..i could have easily had another 2 AAs or so if i had quit doing Tradeskills and went along-but i enjoy the tradeskills more than i do grinding for levels actually.. (with the exception of Fletching )

[tomojo]

I think there is also one other point some people are missing.

This mythical 'tradeskill epic' item is just that.... ONE ITEM.

Comparing raid drops where uber guilds outfit all their members with items that fill every armor slot, every weapon slot and every augment slot is worse than comparing apples to oranges.

[tuis]

There are ways of making a quest interesting and difficult without requiring Tunat's left nut for a combine and a raid force to get it from him.

Quote of the day lol

I never even started the Aid Grimel quest, but might just for the hell of it. Haven't read it all through, but I probably won't even get to finish it since Tuis never completed certain key parts of PoP progression (I was deployed at the time).

I would still prefer a visibly unique reward though...something people would glance at as they passed, stop, and say "wow where can i get one of those?"

[Wymp]

I agree that it would be great to have something flashy to show off, but I don't know which slot they could pick other than charm that would work .. universally.

Too many people would lose an essential item somewhere else, but I'd bet at least 99% of us would benefit from an 'epic' charm of 300+ hp/mana, heh. Especially one that wouldn't (hopefully) lose stats for various inane reasons.


Tunat's left nut ... haha. Just to see that drop might get me back to Tacvi again, though.

[Angelsyn]

And I think your numbers are way off base.

2430 hours of work from my raid gets me 1 item. That is 1 item for each 45hour of work, but that is not MY return rate that is the Guilds return rate. We are looking at how many hours are spent to get me 1 item from raiding compared with 1 item for me from tradeskilling.

As Kyros said, 2430 hours of work also gets 53 other people 1 item each... and what if you're one of the very first people who gets an item? Technically, you only did 1-3 hours of work to get that item. The rest of the time you're spending helping others get items.
__________________________________________________ _______

As for me... I got into Tradeskills because I wanted to make stuff for friends. When I started working on Tradeskills, old-Cultural was just introduced. Enchanting required huge amounts of rare gems. Yet, there were a number of High Elves and Half-Elves in the Guild I was in would would all have benefitted from that armour. Fortunately, by the time I got my Smithing up high enough, the gem component was removed from the Enchanting.

The next things I plan on doing, Tradeskill wise, are GM Baking for my Cleric (so she can have Party Platters too) and GM Smithing for my Paladin (because Half-Elven Smiths are so dranned rare on Xegony!).

I still make things for other people. I still do combines cheaply. I still enjoy making things. I don't get a lot of time to play, but I can still log in and make a few things every once in awhile... and that gives me a nice sense of accomplishment.

I'd love to do the Aid Grimel quest... but I know it will be a long, long time before I can because I don't get to actually XP very often. I'd love to do the Shawl Quest... but I know it will be a long, long time before I can because every time I find a nice "family-style" Guild, it ends up breaking up.

I'd love to have a Discordant Aug (or two, or three! ), but I know it will be a long, long time before I can because, heck, my characters are still only level 65 and I've been playing since Kunark release!

I keep playing because I enjoy the game. I enjoy the time I get to make things, and I enjoy the time I get to XP.

Well, I certainly am not saying everyone who does trades is that way. However, if you look at who is selling 61-65 and GoD spells (for a hefty price I might add) it is all people who maxed out by buying components from DoDH and could buy all they needed to skill up. This is on my server. Check yours. I'm not talking about the person who has an odd or end spell for sale here or there. I'm talking the people with over 100 high priced (that are selling well) spells flying off the shelves. I see a lot of those people.

I know what you are talking about as I am in about the same position as you I would guess being fairly broke. But on my server it is not like that. And I do know a LOT of people from high end guilds who made and are making literally millions of plat off of trades. A great exaple (perhaps classic) was when PoP was new and valorium rings were going for 50k or so. I know who made the killing and it wasn't poor joe smoe. It was those who had the money to max the skill in a day when they say the potential. Heck, I made over 100k on them when they were basically junk and I am pretty casual as a tradesman.

Sure there are "casual" skillers. But honestly, those people are not making the kind of profits I am talking about. I just think that it would be a difficult idea to implement because of this.

Uh... that's only people with the Research Skill who can make those spells. Thus, only Int-spell casters. Thus, they most likely don't have all (or even most) of their Tradeskills maxed out. Especially since Fletching was (until very recently) nearly impossible to max out unless you were a Wood Elf or a Karana worshipper.

I think the biggest advantage I have over people who claim to "go broke" doing tradeskills is... I don't look at tradeskill supplies and finished inventory as "lost money". I look at it all as "potential skill-ups", "tribute" and "potential sales". Careful management of your finances (along with vendor-diving and remembering that every copper you save/loot will eventually add up to a lot of cash in the long run.) and a casual attitude towards skilling up (as opposed to the "must skill up NOW!" school of thought) will net you huge rewards in the end.

The charm you received at the beginning has 7 augment slots (If possible these should be invisible slots similar to the Epic Augment Quest) that will only except the tradeskill augments.

How about a charm slot item that gets better the higher your TS total is in the 7 common tradeskills? It would have to have at least 2 slots tho, just like other charms created with tradeskills.

Alright... how about a quest-giver that has 11 possible quests. One for each Tradeskill (not counting Fishing, if you count that ). To get a quest, you must have 300 in the appropriate skill and your Masters Trophy (but it doesn't have to be fully evolved... that's crazy, since some are just so much easier to evolve than others). If you are working on one of the quests, you cannot request another one... and, if you complete one of the quests you cannot request another one. The result is:

Charm of the Great (Smith, Baker, whatever).
AC 10, +5 to all stats, +5 to all saves, +50 HP/Mana/End.
It would also have 6 Type-11 slots, 1 Type-7 slot and 1 Type-9 slot. (The Slipgear's Gem & Wayfarer's Augs would be changed to be Type-7/9 only.)

The quest-giver would then refer the character to "Go show your Charm to so-and-so and he will guide you on the path to greater things."

This next quest-giver will tell people things like "stick to making fishrolls" unless they show (i.e. give) him their Charm. Doing so will get the Charm back (of course) and also flag the Character so they don't have to keep showing him the Charm. He then says something like: "There are many ways to make things and many skills Masters in the world, what else do you do?" The character then responds with "I Bake" (or whatever). If you say the tradeskill that you have your Charm from, then he says "I asked what else you do... you've already shown me you could do that." Otherwise, a check is made. If you don't have at least 275 in Baking (or whatever you said), then he says "I don't think you're ready for the trials a Master would require in that art." If you do have 275+ skill, then he gives you a Quest to go see one of 11 other NPCs, each of which would have their own Quest relating to the appropriate Tradeskill.

Finishing that NPC's quest gets you a flag (so that NPC won't ever give you the quest again) and a "Certificate of (whatever skill) Mastery" which you take back to the other guy. He then gives you:
Lusterous Stone of Masterful (Baking, Smithing, whatever).
AC +5, +4 to all stats, +4 to all saves, +25 HP/Mana/End

You also get "flagged" so that he will say "I asked what else you do... you've already shown me you could do that." if you ever try to get the same Augment twice. Also, after you've completed 6 Quests, he would say "There is nothing more I or my friends could teach you now" and you would gain a new Title (preferably a suffix like "the Masterful" or "the Artisan")

This will allow for everyone to get the same level of reward, but will enable people who have Mastered Alchemy, Tinkering, Poison-Making or Research to use those skills instead of one (or two, in the case of Gnome Rogues & int-casters) of the common ones. But those who don't have access to those skills wouldn't be "penalized" by not being able to progress as far.

The eventual item would be:
AC 40, +29 to all stats, +29 to all saves, +200 HP/Mana/End and still have the Type-7 and Type-9 slots remaining for the Wayfarer's, Slipgear's or whatever other Charm-Aug you wanted to throw in there.

If it's simply impossible to put that many Aug slots on an item, then make sure it only requires a Class I Augment solvent to remove any of the Augs. Then have another NPC (right next to the Aug Quest guy) who will "take any two Masterful Augments and combine them." Thus, you would end up with 3 Augs that would be +10 AC, +8 to all stats/saves & +50 HP/Mana each. Then, the Charm would only need 3 Type-11 slots instead of 6.

[Newcromancer]

"Uh... that's only people with the Research Skill who can make those spells. Thus, only Int-spell casters. Thus, they most likely don't have all (or even most) of their Tradeskills maxed out. Especially since Fletching was (until very recently) nearly impossible to max out unless you were a Wood Elf or a Karana worshipper."

Hello? Did you read my entire post? People made/make a killing off of EVERY trade skill. I even gave you an example of JC. I can give you and example for every skill if you are blind to the ways people have cashed in. And what does being an INT caster have jack squat to do with trades? Are you trying to tell me that INT casters are statistically less likely to persure trade skills??? Where is your data to back up that wild one?


"I think the biggest advantage I have over people who claim to "go broke" doing tradeskills is... I don't look at tradeskill supplies and finished inventory as "lost money". I look at it all as "potential skill-ups", "tribute" and "potential sales". Careful management of your finances (along with vendor-diving and remembering that every copper you save/loot will eventually add up to a lot of cash in the long run.) and a casual attitude towards skilling up (as opposed to the "must skill up NOW!" school of thought) will net you huge rewards in the end."

So untrue. I maxed out JC in one day because I had run into some pp and was tired of being left out on cashing in. I made a 10 fold profit in less than a month. Those with money make money, those without don't. It's kind of like real life in that respect, but it shouldn't be.