Making Recipe Books useful

[Posatrocible]

We could get rid of the "only one person at a time" issue with world containers. Just click on it and stay near, and you get to make combines in it. Since it is not actually opening a container, we don't have the problems we currently have with sharing a world container. We could also break away from the "only 10 items" issue since you don't have to fit the items in a container.

Just wondering, do you think any final products that have subcombines (a result of the "only 10 items" issue) will become just a single (for instance) 18 item combine?

[Nilbus]

Just wondering, do you think any final products that have subcombines (a result of the "only 10 items" issue) will become just a single (for instance) 18 item combine?

I'd bet that would depend on why it has a subcombine. If it is just due to the 10 slot limit, I don't see why not. If it was to add another level of risk to the combine, then I doubt it.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Just wondering, do you think any final products that have subcombines (a result of the "only 10 items" issue) will become just a single (for instance) 18 item combine?

Certainly not all

Since there is no "combine" timer in this game, one thing to make it take a bit of extra time is to have sub-combines.

But, I have had cases where I had to split recipes up into sub-combines, only because there was no room for the parts I wanted in one combine.

In other cases I wanted the sub combines. So it will depend. It gives me that option.

Also in some cases, removing sub-combines removes a skill-path so I would not want to do so.

So it would definitely NOT be the end of sub-combines.

And Nilbus also has part of it. Sometimes the extra sub-combine is in there for the overall risk in the combine.

[shadyn]

I would like to add a hidden experience bar. Each and every combine is given a set value for a success in exp. The harder the combine, the more exp. In order to gain the exp, you must be able to get a skill point. In other words, “gray” combines yield no experience.

With this in place, a player will understand that while the RNG is being stingy, they are still getting somewhere.

The exp bar should not be reset if the RNG is kind, it should be its own thing, so when you fill it, you get a point. This will end the frustration of 100 combine and 1 point. The player will know that all those combine did do something positive and not “wasted combines”.

You have looked a lot at EQ2 for this new system and I really liked the exp system in EQ2 for trade skills. Every combine did lead to something positive, I knew if I did enough of a certain item, I would get a point.

[Unapuma]

Just a thought with the new system.

One click- 100 celestial essence done
One click- 100 soda water done
One click- 102 fermeted yarrow done (17 * 6 yeild per combine)
One click- your stockpile of 100 underfoot and dark fungus along with the above consumed to make up to 400 kaladim constitutionals.

Seriously I hope the new system isn't going to be that easy and that fast.

[Kcalehc]

Just a thought with the new system.

One click- 100 celestial essence done
One click- 100 soda water done
One click- 102 fermeted yarrow done (17 * 6 yeild per combine)
One click- your stockpile of 100 underfoot and dark fungus along with the above consumed to make up to 400 kaladim constitutionals.

Seriously I hope the new system isn't going to be that easy and that fast.

noooo, bad idea. Market fill up, price crash... If it takes time + effort that deters some and reduces the overall effect on the market. Plus I don't think a brewing barrel would hold that much liquid all at once...

[melkorr]

Just a thought

As it seems the general idea revolves around turning Tradeskill Containers into items themselves, why not make them a component? Would it be possible to have something like a tradeskill window as a UI window that could be opened anywhere, and had an interface like the current window that broke down recipes that the player knew, perhaps with an added selection for which skill you wanted to search? Have it be like a workspace. And then the new "itemized" version of the old tradeskill container could be a component, since the 10-slot rule wouldn't apply. If this was done, it might even be possible to keep the experiment mode, because if it was a UI window like the potion belt instead of a physical container, the 10 slot rule wouldnt apply to it (correct me if I'm way off here). That would let TSers use experiment mode, or do whatever task/book things have been previously mentioned.

[Aldier]

As it seems the general idea revolves around turning Tradeskill Containers into items themselves, why not make them a component? Would it be possible to have something like a tradeskill window as a UI window that could be opened anywhere, and had an interface like the current window that broke down recipes that the player knew, perhaps with an added selection for which skill you wanted to search? Have it be like a workspace. And then the new "itemized" version of the old tradeskill container could be a component, since the 10-slot rule wouldn't apply. If this was done, it might even be possible to keep the experiment mode, because if it was a UI window like the potion belt instead of a physical container, the 10 slot rule wouldnt apply to it (correct me if I'm way off here). That would let TSers use experiment mode, or do whatever task/book things have been previously mentioned.

This would require re-writing EVERY recipe for EVERY tradeskill to now have 1 more slot for the container. Not to mention, several recipes can use different containers. I think that would be a lot more of a hassle than it was worth. Also, it would potentially be an issue of whether the container is consumed or not as some recipes, it is designed that way (AAAA for instance.)

[Sanjah Windmaker]

This is what I like the most about this idea --

There are times when I've bought and read recipe books in game, yet I still have to "experiment" to learn the recipes... which, I've always found as slightly redundant. If you've read the book, you should know the recipes.

Though, I do *like* the experimenting aspect... it gives you a chance to play around with things when you're bored.

If you're going to change up the UI -- couldn't you just still have an 'experiment' bit to the interface?

Say you go to a loom, you click on it, it opens up whatever sort of interface it is that you're talking about... but, it has an expirement tab on it. Where instead of listing recipes, it lists all the tradeskill flagged items in your inventory and you can click on the ones you wish to try and combine... ?

I dunno... just throwing ideas around. lol.

And how about instead of just right click and you automatically know all the recipes, you have to right click, open the book up and actually *read* them. Ya know the little arrows on the sides of the books? Have the recipe go into your character's memory when you click on the arrow. So you have to learn the recipes page by page.

I like reading the books in the game *grins*

[Liwsa]

I don't want to have to rightclick/read 2000 different recipes per tradeskill.

[Nion]

Analysis of my bank shows that replacing my tradeskill containers with items will result in the loss of 3 item slots, which is 8 more than I have to spare

Also, as a rogue, what will happen to my Coffin Poison Bottles? I never use them for their intended purpose, because poison is just not worth the effort, but I DO make frequent use of the fact that they are a summoned, non-temporary container.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Analysis of my bank shows that replacing my tradeskill containers with items will result in the loss of 3 item slots, which is 8 more than I have to spare

Also, as a rogue, what will happen to my Coffin Poison Bottles? I never use them for their intended purpose, because poison is just not worth the effort, but I DO make frequent use of the fact that they are a summoned, non-temporary container.

Have not gotten that far

[Derriere]

Originally Posted by Liwsa

Seems all the new tradeskill changes are be stolen from WoW. In WoW you have to buy a recipe like a spell scroll and scribe it to learn a recipe.
EQ2 did it before wow (or close enough to the same time to not have a relative "who is first" as the idea was probably arrived at independently)

Response from Ogre

Though I know about the WoW bit, I really stole the idea from EQ2

Why "steal" an idea from a game most people "here" already choose NOT to play.

I cant say I personally like many of your "proposed, maybe whatever they are" changes at all.
By the time you reach "your vision" for tradeskills - I dare to say, I like many wont care anymore. We will have hung up our Tradeskill hats in dissapointment. I know alot of my tradeskill friends have already done so or are on the brink.
Sadly I think you will be missing alot feedback on these boards from those people now. One could argue that there already gone so who cares, but wack changes wont entice them back either.

[Roanne]

I dont really care for the changes Ive heard either, and it seems the "proposed" change ideas offered here are just to say they havent really decided *how* theyre going to do it but they are planning on doing it. Maybe Im wrong. Maybe Im not. Cant remember if I read this click-for-learning-recipes idea is coming for the cultural overhaul which means the changes were already in the early planning stage before the topic was even introduced for discussion.

I kind of like tradeskills the way they are. Its what Im used to and I think there are more disadvantages from having to learn a new system than advantages to changing it so you can restrict who gets access to recipes and who doesnt. Restrict the components, not the recipes. Im not saying Im against change, just this one.

So what if people just come to sites like this to get their recipes? Tradeskills are pleanty complicated already and its the reason this site even exisits.

So what if world containers remain? Make more collapsibles if you want to free players of the burden of sharing world containers.

Who cares if people are using tradeskill containers for storage space?

Whats the harm in tradeskill alts? Until we can round our tradeskill habit out with AAs or quests that open the restricted tradeskills to everyone, what choice is there? The "community" is unreliable in filling in for tradeskill gaps and these proposals do nothing to change that (and will possibly make it worse).

The roleplaying argument is weak. There are so many counter-roleplaying aspects ingrained deeply into the game already, to use roleplaying as an excuse is just a means to justify the end (as usual).

In my opinion, the only actual change to tradeskills so far (the cultural name change) has been a huge waste of effort. Shifting from one set of relative name ranks to another has just confused a lot of people and done nothing to add "expandability" to the items that didnt already exist.

Id prefer we quit inventing problems that arent problems and focus on true expansion.

[Ndaara]

One of the issues I had with DON cultural was convincing folks to do Lavaspinner missions so my High Elf could get her symbol quest done. It was not something I could do by myself, HAD to have a group to get them, and no one wanted to do Lavaspinner missions because they felt the exp wasn't as good as other missions. This was back when everyone was doing missions, too. Luckily, i have a group of friends who will do anything at all for each other, and they cheerfully slog through Lavaspinner missions just because I asked them to.

While this is great for me, I'd rather not subject my generous friends to my tradeskilling, which i originally worked on because it gave me a way to progress without outleveling my friends. Crafting is a solo venture for most of us, a thing to do when we can't, won't, or don't have time for a group.

So while i agree that right clicking books to learn recipes is GREAT! I don't want to be limited to ONLY learning recipes in this way.

Using Research as an example, the trivials are all well over our maximum skill level. How would EQ determine we could learn those very high trivial recipes? Coming from EQ2, you simply CAN"T combine anything above your skill level. Clearly there are enough very high trivial recipes in EQ1, that right click recipe books would have to be gained in a different way from EQ2.

That seems to be my primary concern. I don't want to be limited to which recipes i'm allowed to attempt to combine. If i have a skill of 200 and i want to try combines with a trivial (or is it difficulty now?) of 351, I like that I am allowed to do that here.

If we must have recipe books in order to learn recipes, I can see limits placed on it, such as you can only attempt things 100 skill points above your skill (or whatever limit is placed). I wouldn't like that.

Then again, I've liked most of the changes Ngreth has put in. YMMV.