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  • #16
    Originally posted by Elyssanda

    For store bought skills to 300, you will need to do approximately 1000 more successful combines to reach the level 7.

    For Farmed skills to 300, you will need to do approximately 400 more successful combines.
    Could you please define these 2 categories better?


    Originally posted by Elyssanda
    On another note: Ngreth told us last night he just didn't get the time needed to nerf Karana/woodelf fletching, though there are more fletching recipes available for skilling up for others now, and the new types of bows are kinda fun to make if you read the books.


    Geeze twist the knife a little more guys!

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    • #17
      For store bought skills to 300, you will need to do approximately 1000 more successful combines to reach the level 7.

      Ouch, i am already 300 fletcher. I thought i would never have to look at another arrow in my life.... oh well.... Back to Surefall.

      I am liking the sounds of these trophies tho... looking forward to getting them!
      Pootle Pennypincher
      Short in the eyes of some...
      Tall in the hearts of many!

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      • #18
        go back to the lil gnome lady she will give you a level 1 trophy and a certificate for your level, pop the certificate in your tradeskill container and hit combine. Your trophy will then reflect the appropriate level you are at.
        Took me a couple times to figure this part out. You combine the certificate in the container all by itself. You also need to have your trophy equipped.

        The trophies seem to be well thought out, and addresses some of our requests. They also have skill mods greater than 5%. The 300 trophy has a 12% mod on it. Even if you don't want to level it up past that, 12% is still better than you have now, and better than almost every other mod in the game.

        I never thought that they'd get such a rantish reception, from people who haven't seen what they are or how they work yet. If you have a question, by all means ask. As you can see, there are several of us that are happy to answer them.
        Last edited by Nolrog; 02-17-2006, 08:03 AM.




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        • #19
          Originally posted by Qaladar Bragollach
          Could you please define these 2 categories better?

          Geeze twist the knife a little more guys!
          Storebought skills to 300? any skill in which you can get to 300 via storebought items? Smithing (MCS?)

          Farmed items to 300? Tailoring?

          and before you get bent on Ngreth for not getting a chance to nerf others who you are not a part of, realize he was pretty busy, and he did say it would happen within the next 1-6 months, it's not like he wasn't busy making positive changes here, he just plain ran outta time. I know for a fact he was changing things, fixing bugs, and still had to deal with ingame issues like petitions and bug reports there too.

          Alliance Artisan
          Proud owner of Artisan's Prize.

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          • #20
            OH and JC got a whole bunch of new recipes too.
            and we all know about the alchemy changes coming.. No more 10 dose anything, but all potions, philters, elixers will be 1 dose and stack to 20. Yes even the potion of Mana/healing/speed etc that currently stack to 10.

            Alliance Artisan
            Proud owner of Artisan's Prize.

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            • #21
              So, I need to have the current 'regular' trophy in order to get the new trophy?

              Also, does anyone have some sample stats of the top new ones?
              Mannwin Woobie - 75 Druid and Master Artisan
              Shammwin Woobiekat - 75 Shaman and Master Alchemist
              Xannwin - 75 Enchanter and Master Tinker
              Stabbwin - 20 Rogue and Master Poisoncrafter
              Last Requiem on Prexus

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              • #22
                I think it's possible that most beta testers concentrated on the testing of trophy 6. Meaning most of the info we're hearing is about trophy 6. And we shouldn't let that confuse us as to how trophies 1-5 work.

                How trophy 5 works (a.k.a. what happens at 282 skill) is still a mystery. I was thinking that it's best to race to 300 asap (obviously not talking about fletching). While some believe it's better to halt all combines now and wait till you get a trophy first before you start combining again to make every combine counts. Which way should it be depends on how trophy 5 works.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mannwin Woobie
                  So, I need to have the current 'regular' trophy in order to get the new trophy?
                  Ihe impression i get is you dont need the 'old' trophy. You simply do a 'quest' to get the new one.
                  If you have an old one you can use it to bypass the 'quest'.
                  Pootle Pennypincher
                  Short in the eyes of some...
                  Tall in the hearts of many!

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                  • #24
                    Really excited to give these a try. Thanks to Ngreth and your buddies for putting together what looks like a really interesting path for tradeskillers to advance!
                    Savage Spirit Sharrien Dreamstalker the Kraftin Kitty, Master Artisan
                    Primal Elementalist Ravingronn Blazewarden, Master Artisan, Master Researcher
                    Celestial Navigators, Maelin Starpyre

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                    • #25
                      Will these new trophies' percent bonuses add to any geerloks' percent bonuses or will only the highest one be in effect? Hopefully the two bonuses are cumulative or a section of tinkering (and sales) just became ruined.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Pootle
                        Ihe impression i get is you dont need the 'old' trophy. You simply do a 'quest' to get the new one.
                        If you have an old one you can use it to bypass the 'quest'.
                        I think what Elyssanda means is, during the course of upgrading the trophy from lvl 6 to lvl 7, you need to do quests/tasks and one of the quests/tasks asks you for an old trophy.

                        Apart from this step, the new trophies are completely different things from the old trophies.

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                        • #27
                          Unless it changed the past few days, smithing is not considered "store bought" in this case, and does NOT take 1000 combines (of those relative numbers, the actual number is based on the "experience" you gain from each combine that is reflected by the trivial), as that was explicitly stated.

                          As to the supposed "voodoo" nature of the evolving rate, and this statement:

                          "The item would have to "know" what skill you were at when you obtained it and then adjust its evolution rate to compensate."

                          I really don't remember if that is true that it will catch up with you in that manner, but it would be a trivial matter to code, so I don't see why you think it is so complicated, i.e.:

                          A mod rate for skill ups that is {Your skill / trophy level skill), so if you are 282 and start with the level 5 trophy, you get a 282/evol% mod, with the mod getting smaller as you approach the exp% on your trophy to your skill % within that 50 skill point range. Nothing complicated needed, though like I said, I can't remember if that's the case anyway, someone else can answer that for sure.

                          And no one should be whining about a 12% mod for doing a few combines if you are 300, with an option to get to 15%. Don't want to do a few hundred more combines to evolve it? Don't, and you're still better off.

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                          • #28
                            I was going to wait until release to give details on exp.

                            The trophy has no actual skill, but it is easier to talk about it if you consider a "Virtual" skill for each trophy.

                            So if we consider this virtual skill... the trophy has a virtual skill of its level * 50

                            You can also consider a Player as having a Virtual "level" of TRUNCATED Skill/50.

                            I will give some of the "Rules" first. don't freak out about them until you read the whole thing, because it will make more sense when it is all described.

                            First the combine has to be a success. If a failure, no exp.

                            Then the player must have the trophy in the primary, secondary, range or ammo slot.

                            The Trivial level of the combine must be greater than the skill of the player. The logic from this is the trophy can only learn if the player learns.

                            The Trivial level of the combine must not be more than 100 over the player. I did not want people at skill 50 grinding level 300 combines to skill the trophy only, and not themselves. Also the other logic is the trophy is an inanimate object, and need something closer to learn from. Get too far away and the trophy is "confused."

                            If the trophy's Skill is greater than the players skill. The trophy will gain no exp. It is rare that a trophy will get ahead of a player, but it is possible. Say the player manages to have the odd luck of succeeding ALOT and getting very few skillups... the trophy can get ahead of the player. The logic behind this is once the trophy is "better" than the player, it fails to learn. It needs help from the player to learn, and when the player is behind... it is not learning.

                            If it passes to this point, the trophy gains exp.

                            It checks if the Trivial of the combine is > 350 if so, set the trivial to 350
                            Note: This is within the script only... nothing outside the script ever sees this... as it is, the combine has already succeeded at this point, any skills gained has already happened... (note this can affect the trophy, if you happened to be at 299 and went to 300 on the combine it is checking, the trophy considers you at 300)

                            If the trophy level and the players virtual level are the same, the trophy gains exp equal to the trivial of the combine. (this is the other reason for the 100 trivial cap)

                            If the players virtual level is greater than the trophy level, give bonus exp equal to (10*(player virtual level - trophy level)*(Trivial of combine))+(Trivial of combine)

                            That second part is how it "rewards" people who are part way through a level. or "Helps" people who have been silly, and forgot and left the trophy in a bag or bank and went and skilled up a lot.

                            So people at 282 will get a level 5 trophy, and they will be at 300 skill when the trophy has only about 30-50% exp. At this point, the trophy is still level 5, but the players "Virtual" level is level 6. so the trophy will gain extra exp. Say there are doing a trivial 342 combine. The trophy for them will gain 3762 exp instead of just 342. Greatly accelerating its gain, and making it catch up to the player quickly.

                            It is very possible for someone who got the trophy at exactly 250, to also only be at 90% when they reach 300, it is even possible, though not likely that they would only be at 50% so the people with partial skills are not being "unduly" punished for being partway there. I allowed for the trophies to catch up to the player quickly.

                            After writing this... I have even thought of a way to get it closer to "equal" to the players skill, but it is a change I would want to go through QA, and there is no time before release for it to make it to QA, so it is not a change I will make until after release. Rushing it through QA would *NOT* be a good idea. So if people in the middle feel they are being "unduly" punished, despite the exp acceleration... they can wait a bit. Sorry I only thought of it now... but hey, I never said I was perfect and thought of every possible angle of something as large as these trophies were. None of the conversations with the about 40 beta testers over 4 weeks who gave great feedback even made me think of it.

                            Edit: After further thought I *MAY* make the adjustment before release. but I do not want folks counting on it.
                            The adjustment would be to how the "Certificates" that level up the trophy's work. Not how it gains exp during normal progress.
                            I may not have explained this part.
                            Because of the way the evolving item system works, I cannot give you anything but a level 1 trophy. If I "Give" you a level 6 trophy it will not gain exp. So what I did was give a level 1 trophy AND a certificate that will level it to the level it should be. What I am thinking of doing is figuring the % you are into level and then giving the amount needed to get the trophy to the appropriate level + a percentage of the amount needed to get to the next level according you your percentage towards the next level. But If I do not have time to test it, I will not do it until post release where there will be time, I do not want to rush and break something.
                            Last edited by Ngreth Thergn; 02-17-2006, 09:58 AM.
                            Ngreth Thergn

                            Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                            Grandmaster Smith 250
                            Master Tailor 200
                            Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

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                            • #29
                              These trophies will probably be the first thing I check when the expansion comes out. The Gnome lady is in PoK somewhere? Or in one of the new zones?
                              Mannwin Woobie - 75 Druid and Master Artisan
                              Shammwin Woobiekat - 75 Shaman and Master Alchemist
                              Xannwin - 75 Enchanter and Master Tinker
                              Stabbwin - 20 Rogue and Master Poisoncrafter
                              Last Requiem on Prexus

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I believe tinkering gets some luvin as well
                                If anyone played with the Tinkering and found some alternate paths above 282, please let us know
                                Mannwin Woobie - 75 Druid and Master Artisan
                                Shammwin Woobiekat - 75 Shaman and Master Alchemist
                                Xannwin - 75 Enchanter and Master Tinker
                                Stabbwin - 20 Rogue and Master Poisoncrafter
                                Last Requiem on Prexus

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