Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A general warning to the tradeskill community

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    From the programming side of things, it wouldn't be that difficult code-wise to increase the skill caps. It'd take up considerably more database space (not a lot per character, but multiply by # of characters out there.. 400k x anything is still a lot.), but wouldn't be "difficult".

    However, I see it as incredibly unlikely, unless other skills were able to be raised to that level as well. Currently tradeskills are the only skills that are able to be raised above the standard 5*level + 5 cap - and most skills even have some penalties with that.

    From a game design standpoint, it wouldn't make sense to up the level - items which are currently difficult and high risk (PoP armor, for example) could actually become trivial, and while the drop rate remains low the success rates would increase. Same goes for BD cultural, GM trophies, etc.

    IMHO, I think the level v. skill caps should be used, and recipes adjusted accordingly by level/usefulness so that a level 1 character can't make elemental armor, but by level 5-10 or so could make some banded, maybe by 20 could make basic cultural and by 45 when they can USE BD cultural they'd be able to make it. Stat food/drink would just start being made around 20 when the stats start to matter, and the "good stuff" wouldn't be able to be made until 45 when you have a high enough cap to actually hit 250. Maybe even adjust trivials so the gear you make as a tradeskiller is better than comparable drop/quest gear at that level.

    Which is probably going to get me flamed, but here's why:

    If I take a level one cleric, I can cast the hardest spell available to me (Minor healing? Lesser Healing? Don't remember the name but it's 10 points) ALL DAY LONG and never skill up beyond 10 in alteration. No amount of practice will let me ever get a better spell, or "skill up".

    However, I *CAN* get my main to dump a bajillion plat into the shared bank, buy the hell outta stuff in the bazaar, and gm tradeskills to my heart's desire.

    ALSO part of my opinion would be that skillups past 180 should be a little easier (no more 400 streaks with no skillup) since you've added in the timesink of level requirements.

    In this type of system, lower level characters (and casual players) would still be able to progress *AND* create things that are worthwhile at their level, but there'd be significantly less reason to "powerskill" because there'd be less point.

    To make the best stuff available in the game, a character would have to be level 50. But realistically, a character has to be 50 anyways to do some of it due to farming or gaining plat. While a level 5 character *COULD* technically make 200k farming greens, it's not likely to happen within anyone's lifetime, but for a level 50-65 it's more realistic.

    Spell research is a good example of this system. A level 25 wizard can make spells that are about equal (sometimes slightly better than) his current ability to cast. As the wizard gains levels, his spells become harder to make, but his cap raises to accomodate.

    SFG
    Magelo Profile

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by eniamn
      yeah incresing skills to 300 would also make all the stuff for pop combines grow on trees, not treants tees. that is why they are pricey now. skill level is only part of it.
      I run about 50% success on Stonehide Tunics. If my skill was raised to 300 I would make almost 100%. You're telling me doubling the amount of pop gear being sold won't affect prices? Wow you ate some bad jumjum.

      Comment


      • #33
        Errrr NO please don't make general tradeskills level dependent! You know, there are SOME of us here who actually enjoy things other than LevelQuest.

        :wanders off muttering about Power Gamers.


        Falcon’s Pride @ The Nameless



        Destiny of the Free @ the Oasis

        Comment


        • #34
          I can't see SOE upping the limit on trade skills past 250. It would disrupt the market too much. It would anger those who thought they were "done" by getting one, or all, trade skills to 250. How many times have we seen someone say they'd never do trade skills again given how much effort it took? I'm happy with my 250 in smithing, but I don't think I'd do it again.

          SOE would probably be better off making trade skills more available to more players than making a monopoly for the few who will put in the insane amount of time a 300 skill would require. Trade skill -> time sink -> more hours playing -> $$ for SOE. I'm not saying this would be better for the players or current tradeskillers, just better for SOE.

          Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
          65 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek

          200 Alchemy
          210 Baking
          250 Blacksmithing
          250 Brewing
          200 Fishing
          200 Fletching
          200 Jewelry
          200 Pottery
          170 Tailoring

          Comment


          • #35
            Frankly I think that this is simply a ploy by SoE to get the average every day ordinary non tradeskiller type all into tradeskills by making it easier to accomplish. Remember there is a new tradeskill class coming out in EQ2 which I'm sure they're hoping everyone and their mamma buys. This new tradeskill class i think will probably be essencial to the armor/weapon/spell portions of the game. So the only way to make the game work with that kind of gaming model is to make everyone like to do tradeskills so that you have some hope of having enough of the population choose that as their class as to make it a working gaming model. I mean it's great to have the class but if no one or very few people choose to play it and it ends up a key point in the functionality of the game then the game fails.

            Sooo as i have said for the last year and 1/2 with every improvement that has been made.... Welcome to EQ2 Alpha...

            Comment


            • #36
              7 classes of tradeskiller with 4 end classes in eq2. scholar, sage (i think ones spells and ones alchemy), crafter (leather and wood), smith (metal)

              renjah: it might make them some cheaper but until the markets saturated they wouldn't be very much. would prolly riase the price of components for those who can't farm it.

              kieroth: NOOO. i am gm baker and have some other skills pretty high. i brough my skills up along the way instead of powerskilling at 65. you wouldn't have let me have fun with radeskills while i ground through levels. i really dont like xping unless i can do it with friends. quadding is fun sometimes but a few levels of that burns you out. many many times i have had my tradeskills above my other skills. 500pp for a level 1 brewer. with padding being so expensive its actually not hard to gm it low level. a bit more for baking and then 10k for jc which is prolly the last you could support for yourself pre 20. eq lets you do something besides level. i look forward to eq2 where skilling will let me ding.

              Maker of Picnics.
              Cooker of things best left unidentified.
              "Grimrose points to the sky. Look! Up in the sky, it's a bird, no, a plane, no it's Picnic-Man. It's Emiamn, a mild mannered tradeskiller by day but daring handsome crime fighter at night. Spreading peace and joy to norrath with his mighty Picnics!"

              Comment


              • #37
                What they should do is the only recipes that go into the drop down are recipes you have done. If you do one it goes into thwe drop down box for you. If you have not done it since the inception of the recipe saver(what it really is) then it is not available for you to click yet until you do it manually once. This way "secret recipes" stay secret until figgered out.

                If I never did a single pottery combine why should they let me pull down item-x off this list and just hit a button. In everything you have to LEARN it before you do it no?? Learn it once THEN hit the button to repeat but your first one should be your learning(meming it into your recipe book so to speak).
                Liwsa 75 Druid Prexus - Retired


                Comment


                • #38
                  In response to the list of improvements...

                  8. No automatic 5% failure rate.
                  There used to be an automatic 5% success rate on all combines. That was removed and they added the "too difficult to even attempt" on top of that. Like it was said before, just about every benefit tradeskillers ever were given was countered by something bad. I still think all the benefits outweigh any negative changes, though. But, as with all patches, we'll have to wait and see...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Renjah said:
                    ----
                    I run about 50% success on Stonehide Tunics. If my skill was raised to 300 I would make almost 100%. You're telling me doubling the amount of pop gear being sold won't affect prices? Wow you ate some bad jumjum.
                    ----

                    Yeah.. that's what we are saying. There is so little elemental tradeskilled gear being sold, compared to the demand of people who would want it, that to double the successes mean nothing. For new material on the market, the bottleneck is NOT the success rate on the combines, its getting the components in any quantity at a reasonable price. You can do 0 with fire gear, whether you have 50% success rate, 100% success rate, or even if it were a no-fail combine, if Obsidianwood Sap is still being sold for 30K as a result of the aid grimel quest.

                    -Quillium Lifehammer
                    65 Warrior Fennin Ro

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      If pop gear was trivial most of the elemental guilds wouldnt stash materials away. I personally know a small bit of what is stored in a few guilds vaults on Veeshan and its a trade skillers dream. I'd consider %10 of it enough to keep me set in EQ plat for ages.....

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        ****

                        Yeah.. that's what we are saying. There is so little elemental tradeskilled gear being sold, compared to the demand of people who would want it, that to double the successes mean nothing. For new material on the market, the bottleneck is NOT the success rate on the combines, its getting the components in any quantity at a reasonable price. You can do 0 with fire gear, whether you have 50% success rate, 100% success rate, or even if it were a no-fail combine, if Obsidianwood Sap is still being sold for 30K as a result of the aid grimel quest.

                        *****

                        If there are currently 5 pieces for sale, and the number jumps to 10, that WOULD definitely be an increase.

                        It's about odds. If I had 5 or 50 nightmare mephit bloods right now I wouldn't attempt any nightmare plate. Because my odds aren't good on it yet. So I'm stockpiling the *few* drops of stuff that I get.

                        But if I KNEW (and other tradeskillers KNEW) that I had virtually no chance of failing it, it's incentive to break out those last couple components and actually use them.

                        I have a small stockpile of supplies for tradeskills, enough to make some pretty nice 250+ items. Not many, but a few. And I'm only *1* tradeskiller who RARELY ventures into the planes.

                        How many other tradeskillers have a few bits here and there that they *COULD* attempt with but don't because the risk is too high?

                        Allow a skill to go to 300 and much of that *risk* is taken out of the equation, and suddenly all those tradeskillers who have a *FEW* combines pop them out when they're at the 95% point.

                        Would it destabilize the economy? Probably not. Would it deflate the price of those items? YES.

                        Small, slight changes have serious impact, because ANYTHING times the number of players in the game is a big number.

                        SFG
                        Magelo Profile

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tinile
                          Will you have to "learn" other recipes and "scribe" them onto your list somehow?
                          An interesting thought... it gives some use to all of the in-game recipe books from all the baking vendors all over Norrath. It'd be neat if the interface included a button for "Copy Recipes," where you would hold a recipe (like Mixxy's Delicacies Vol 1) on the cursor, click the button, and the recipes in that book are added to your "Cookbook." Then if you wanted to be able to 1-click a certain recipe, you'd have to track down the recipe.

                          Maybe even some way to take a blank parchment and quill and copy a recipe to trade to another player could be incorporated.

                          I realize this is probably not the way it's going to come about, but ****, wouldn't it be neat? Kind of a pain to have to round up all of the recipe books, but still...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Let us of a moment consider that the Trivials on the Teir 1&2 Player made items are say 260 and that the Trivials on the Elemental Planes item are say 270 even IF you have a trade skill level of 300 you will still not make the items 100% of the time. Consider Brewing Coldain Velium Tempers Trivial at 136, my brewing Mule has a skill of 165 I still fail on those things. Not as often as my smith (227) when attempting the 250 combines but I do indeed fail.

                            I personally would love to see a way to increase the max skill level you could get even if it ment spending AA points to do so. Being able to have better than a 50% chance to make some of the high end gear would be great.
                            Sir Cavel Cade
                            65 Paladin
                            230 High Elven Smith
                            Draconis Valorum
                            Tunare

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Have you ever read a book or seen a TV program showing how traditional Japanese swords are made? One sword can take dozens of attempts, they hand sort the metal used, and the process for each attempt is long and slow. High end items SHOULD be difficult to create successfully. Now, in keeping with the Japanese sword idea... they reuse the steel if they fail each time, and you don't even work on the hilt until the blade is done. Also, it's not unbelievably difficult to find components.

                              Rather than an increase in skill cap, I'd like to see AAs that cause components to be returned on failure (and certain components should always be returned on failure, regardles of theoretical-AAs), and an across-the-board increase in tradeskill item drops.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I always thought on a fail a random item should be returned as if you failed before you got to that step.

                                Lets say you fail on making a BP. The temper is returned this time because the BP failed before you used it. Or a thread is returned because the hide ripped when you were cutting it out with the pattern.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X