A general warning to the tradeskill community

[Cendorly]

Of course, I'm not exactly jumping for joy over this change, having GM'd all 7 tradeskills to 250 the "old fashioned" way of multiple clicks.

However, I AM somewhat looking forward to this change because if I need to ever (for whatever strange reason) make MTP's again, or something like them it (hopefully?) will be much easier.

My biggest concern with the new UI being planned is the following:

1. It will make skilling up FAR easier then ever, thereby giving even MORE 250 tradeskillers and further saturating the market.

2. It will just hand macroers the 250 skill, again further destroying the tradeskill market.

I think that scenario #2 is less likely then #1 because it seems like SoE has been aware of the macroers and is taking steps to hinder/stop them. However, what about Aid Grimel? Not to get too far off the subject, but personally I feel that hurt tradeskills bad.

When has SoE ever implemented a tradeskill change that was for the better without in some way making something slightly more difficult, harder, or otherwise impacting the community in some way? The latest and best example I can think of is Aid Grimel: Tradeskillers ask for another POTC-type earring quest - what did we get? Something that only half the population can get and something that hurt the majority of hard-core tradeskillers and the market.

My thinking is that SoE wants the "other" players (read, sane people, non-tradeskill lunatics) to get involved in Tradeskills and that's the reason for the Aid Grimel Quest and the UI Change. Motivation and ease of skilling up.

I only hope that this is a good change and not a bad one that will further push tradeskills to the back burner, and destroy the market even further.

Cend

[Renjah]

Don't quote me on this but I HIGHLY doubt SoE would make it so you can skill up using this new method. I know it say some non trivial items wil be included but I DOUBT it will be combines use to skill on. I would assume (yeah I know what happens when one assumes) that mostly 250+ triv combines will be included and maybe the receipies with no fail AKA Metal bits, etc. but I doubt they will add items to people can "1 click" to GM status.

[Tinile]

I imagine all tradeskilling will be changed, not just high level recipes.

Reading this quote from above:

Taken directly from [url]http://eqlive.station.sony.com/updates/upcoming_updates.jsp]EQLive Website[/url.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the window you will find an area that has all recipes that are currently available to you. This includes recipes that are at your skill level as well as some above it.

I'm guessing that this will utilize the adventure merchant type window. If your skill is say 150, you only get to see recipes up to 175 or whatever, just like you see above your points for that LDoN theme. I think the only question on recipes is how much will be given to us. Will there be some recipes lumped on for everyone to access immediately? Will you have to "learn" other recipes and "scribe" them onto your list somehow?

I think it will be implemented that if you wish to make MTPs, you need to collect all your ingredients, then click your sewing kit and select woven mandrake/picnic basket, then go to your mixing bowl and select jum jum salad, etc until you have all 8 subs. Then you would choose MTP on your list to click, and it would either go on your cursor or into inventory.

[Meriru]

{Not selling Cheese}

they can't not sell cheese as there is no other way to get it atm.

Actually... They can. I just made a monk (first character on server) on E'ci 'cause I have a RL friend who plays there... I was working on my newbie quest armor--you know, the partly tradeskill stuff with stats and almost 0 cost? Well, I can't make the gloves because giant leaf scarabs and sand scarabs no longer drop giant eyes; instead they drop "pristine scarab eye" (stackable) for which I can find no use (I suspect some other newbie quest but... who knows) anyway, it wouldn't be the first time SOE made a quest or tradeskilled item or whatever impossible. I don't expect them to remove cheese, but it could happen... Also they could remove vendor sold cheese and make cheese drop from hell cows in Gates of Dischord thus forcing you to buy a new expansion so you can get your tradeskill on. I am thankful for the new interface, as my wrists are hurting rather often nowadays, but I agree with the orignal post--take it with a grain of your own salt, cause otherwise you're likely to get the whole saltshaker full on your plate.

Meriru
250 Baker [2 failed trophies and counting]

[Quillium]

Tinile said:
----
I'm guessing that this will utilize the adventure merchant type window. If your skill is say 150, you only get to see recipes up to 175 or whatever, just like you see above your points for that LDoN theme. I think the only question on recipes is how much will be given to us. Will there be some recipes lumped on for everyone to access immediately? Will you have to "learn" other recipes and "scribe" them onto your list somehow?
----

Speaking from a programmer's point of view, what it looked like to me when i first read it was the following. You click open say a tailoring kit. Upon doing that, a subroutine runs that logs each of the tradeskill marked items in your inventory into a stored list. It then runs through the list and checks against the recipes that contain those items. Sorting down, its output would give you a list of the recipes that could be made with the items that you currently have in inventory assuming you were within its level range above your current level, or anything below. The interesting question would be, would something like Brodder's Revenge, which may have a trivial quite a bit less than 250, show up in the recipe window assuming you ended up with each of the relevant components in inventory? Plus, if they're going to list the recipes in a window, why not just pop up a field that gives the level at which you can no longer advance with that item? That information allready has to be tied to each and every tradeskilled item in the database in order to check it during combine, just display it with the recipe.

The other option would be to have, as you said, a list of the recipes within a certain range of your level. But, then you get into the deep water of having no recipes be 'discovered' anymore. All books off vendor would be obsolete, you see the recipes you can make in the window as soon as you get in that range. At least, with the other way, you can muck around tossing new ingredients in your inventory to see what jives with the container, if anything, without doing needless amounts of combines. And, given the extreme amount of tradeskilled marked items out there and the possible number of combinations for recipes, you still won't get a hit very often.

One last thing, if you look to make all recipes one-click, then you need to put in a delay roughly equivalent to the time it would take a 'normal' person to move and place each of the items into a container, and hit combine. So, if you are doing say Minotaur Hero's Brew with the 9 items that it has.. then your Delay = INT(Number of Items * TimePenaltyPerItem). The INT rounds up to the nearest whole second and adjust the TimePenaltyPerItem as needed to give as close to the wanted delay as possible. And to further clarify, this delay should be constrained to ONLY being a penalty for moving items for a player, not for the actual combine time. That should be instant as it is now. Thanks.

-Quillium Lifehammer
65 Warrior Fennin Ro

[dahna]

I just wonder...if it is said in the official website that all trivial combine will be shown, will there be shown the trivial skill number either?
If yes, it would heavily help in completing the eqt database (especially a special tradeskill that use...well a rod and some grub ).
And what about the trivial combine not yet discovered? Will they be shown too?
I am a bit puzzled about it. It would be nice to finally discover what we lost track some addons ago, but if we were given already the full list, the fun of searching and discovering will disappear...
Imho, the recipe list would be added to the ui at your 1st combine, or when you read a cooking book, that should be the "normal" way to learn a tradeskill.

[Zaniel]

All Quillium is really saying is that smart players, just like any business people are proactive not reactive. Think the government is going to change taxation law to mess with 401k plans?? Pop some extra money in your 401k before the change because once it's in it usually gets grandfathered. You don't trust others to arrange things for your satisfaction, you go out and do it yourself.

Same with this, sure maybe what he suggested won't happen, in fact it likely won't. But wouldn't you feel like a right idjit if you were going for 1750 club and neglected brewing until after the change. Then a few small chops and changes altered a store-bought breeze into a foraged nightmare.

Whilst you might not wildly rush out to GM tailoring or smithing it certainly can't hurt to knuckle down over a few of the currently easy tradeskills like brewing & JC. One night spent not getting some extra AA and spent finishing up JC might save you a world of hurt later.

Heck, if nothing goes wrong all you did was complete JC a week early, no loss.

[eniamn]

i pictured the drop down menu like my spell select menu. i right click a gem and get options from abjuration/armor to teleport. figured for tailoring it would sort for armor-cured silk-mask or misc-woven mandrake. soemthing like that.

[Linlaweniel]

Is it possible that they could increase the maximun level of tradeskills above 250? to 300 for example in the new expansion?

[Cendorly]

Originally posted by Linlaweniel
Is it possible that they could increase the maximun level of tradeskills above 250? to 300 for example in the new expansion?

HUSH!! Just....HUSH!! Don't even think like that!! OMG don't even put those thoughts into SoE's heads!!!

*shudders at the thought of doing 50 more points in tailoring and smithing*

The only way I can see that being a good thing, is if someone was 250 WITH Trophy already (pre tradeskill UI change), then giving them the option to get to 300 with recipes exclusively for the 250-300 range.

In other words, now that everyone and their brother can do tradeskills and all it takes is a lot of pp (or so it seems) I would like to see something "exclusive" about tradeskills again that shows the true determination of most tradeskillers.

I think IF the cap was to be raised to 300 (which I doubt), then it should be limited to certain factors - like existing 250 (TRUE 250, not adjusted 250) or 250+trophy, or something like that.

Then, those people would be rewarded with something special, like exclusive recipes that only they can make, or something to that effect.

Then again...I guess there's enough people out there with one skill at 250 that even that specialized market would soon get flooded...

/shrug

Just a thought...

Cend

[Koru]

Oooh, but imagine how nice it would be to raise the skills on the recipes you usually make for profit now (yup, baker'n'brewer here) - plus, less failures as you progress No, I'd love an increase in tradeskill cap. Of course if they found a way to do that it would also mean they'd found a way to make other skills go past 255, which would open up some interesting possibilities in combat skills. Naw, I figure if they add to trades it will probably be AA mastery abilities. It would seem the skill limit is very difficult, if not impossible, to change. So you're probably safe from another 50 points.

[Renjah]

Raising trade skill caps to 300 would toss WAY too much off balance. Imagine everyone buying pop gear cheap cause its trivial!!!

[Ursawraith]

Call me silly but, I think making NTCM AA hurt the tradeskillers. Having a Skill of 250 in a trade used to mean something. 250 Smiths and Tailors were rare because it was Hard to do and if only 1 skill could be 250 it was a real decision over which one you wanted to GM. By making NTCM all it did was let more people become a GM in all trades. While I do like the idea of GMing all trades, I really feel this hurt us badly.

[eniamn]

yeah incresing skills to 300 would also make all the stuff for pop combines grow on trees, not treants tees. that is why they are pricey now. skill level is only part of it.

[Quillium]

Eniamn said:
----
yeah incresing skills to 300 would also make all the stuff for pop combines grow on trees, not treants tees. that is why they are pricey now. skill level is only part of it.
----

Renjah said:
----
Raising trade skill caps to 300 would toss WAY too much off balance. Imagine everyone buying pop gear cheap cause its trivial!!!
----

For most PoP gear this simply isn't the case. The reason most PoP gear is expensive has nothing to do with the skill level, the reason it is expensive is because most items have a rare farmed component from the planes. I.e. putrsecent blood from the Plane of Torment. Or a Stormwatcher Stone from BoT. Exceptions are those items that drop off easy to solo mobs(Highly Polished Gems come to mind) or drop in group(Valorium Ring components or other Ring components). But, for example, how often is Hurricane Plate done? Night Terror? Elemental tailored/smithed gear will remain expensive until the super rare comps drop regularly, or the supply out there outstrips the demand, which won't be for quite a while.

Personally, I'd like to see the caps go up to 300(heh.. would that mean a 2100 club?) with very specialized recipes for all skills in the 250-300 range and very few skillup paths to get there. With everyone starting to bottleneck at 250 in some skills(i.e. baking, brewing, JC), you need a way of weeding some people out and making the super high skill actually mean something again. The other option, if you just can't find yourself recoding to expand the caps, is to do to each skill the equivalent of the 'smithing fix' that was done a while back. Adjust the trivials on recipes downward so it provides a buffer space to 250 and then put in new recipes that get you to 250.

-Quillium Lifehammer
65 Warrior Fennin Ro