A general warning to the tradeskill community

[Quillium]

Hi,

I've been thinking about these new interface things they're planning to add for tradeskills. And one thing has struck me above all else. And that's a warning. If you have some 'soft' bumps that you've been holding off on, you'd better get them now. One of the things you really have to watch for is if the bat starts swinging, and Sony says they're going to take another whack at 'fixing' this tradeskill stuff, that it might not be just interface that changes. They've stated they'll add one-click combines, but does that mean they'll make the components harder or rarer to get? Or maybe adjust the prices of currently marked items to make them unfeasible to do? It doesn't take a lot to ruin these bread-and-butter combines we use to get to high levels, and I wouldn't want to be the one who didn't get the soft stuff done while they could. So, if you've got trades waiting to be addressed, its better you do it with the devil you know, then the devil you don't.. and be at the hard bumps on all the skills you do come patch day, probably the middle of the month. Thanks.

-Quillium Lifehammer
65 Warrior Fennin Ro

[OutcastAssassin]

Wait a second here, I'm trying to figure out what you just said. Are you saying:

Dont wait to start skilling up after the patch, because, chances are, Sony is going to make it a LOT more expensive to skillup, because it is a lot easier now.

Thats what I got from what you posted.

[Timper Tantrum]

Yeah Q's post was a bit confusing , perhaps he was posting at 4am or something.

[Silound]

I think what he;s getting at is since when has Sony ever diddled with tradeskills in a positive way and not changed something for the worse too? I can easily see that once on-click combines are in place, the price of certain tradeskill items could increase (prevent macroing form being profitable) or they could become more rare drops/spawns/forages.

The other thing that strikes me is I bet there's going to be some tinkering with the trivials of more desireable products so that one-clicking them makes an increased fail rate.

Of course, those are all guesses, but I'm quite the cynic, so forgive me for not trusting Sony sometimes

[Nolrog]

The more desirable items will likely not be one-clickable. They've stated that this will be for "SOME" items that are trival to you, or slightly above. Don't expect MTPs to be one clickable. Maybe the various components will be though, so it will make them a bit easier to make.

[Quillium]

OutcastAssassin said:
----
Wait a second here, I'm trying to figure out what you just said. Are you saying:

Dont wait to start skilling up after the patch, because, chances are, Sony is going to make it a LOT more expensive to skillup, because it is a lot easier now.

Thats what I got from what you posted.
----

Yes, do them now. Lets take baking as an example. Baking boils down to 2 recipes until 191. Lion fillets and Patty Melts. If either of those trivials change or an item ceases to be store buyable(say cheese), you tell me how we power to 191? Yes, Sony may give you these nice new ways of one-click combining, but they may also remove or modify some of the nice one-click combines that were formerly used to power tradeskills. Whenever a development crew starts addressing an old item, which happens rarely, they usually try to address the entire problem, not just what they were originally out to fix. In doing so, they can, and often do, break things that were formerly working. Its safer to get the soft bumps in the system you know, then the system you don't. Then you don't get caught by surprise come patch day. That was my warning.

-Quillium Lifehamer
65 Warrior Fennin Ro

[Koru]

Sad thing is, I've become so accustomed to the traditional MMOG way of thinking that until now it didn't even occur to me that they'd not negatively alter tradeskills in some way after that change. How cynical and bitter is that? I've been playing these types of games too long I think, because I can't see a big nice ease of anything happening without some huge hindrance being inserted as well. See, if it's inexpensive and relatively easy then anyone can do it, and if anyone can do it it can't be too worth doing or the whole reward vs risk/tedium/expense balance is thrown off and the world is ravaged by gnomish beastlords or something equally terrible.

[Aandaie]

The one click thing is part of the new "kinder and gentler" mmorpg design, to be more contemporary so they compare favorably with newer "easier" mmorpgs.

So no, I don't think they due to the one clicking design they are going to suddenly make other parts of tradeskilling more difficult. They are more than difficult enough already.

The one click design is more of a "stop repetitive stress" thing. That is all it is really. It ends the clicking and dragging, while you still have just as much challenge. If you thought that clicking and dragging was challenging, I feel sorry for you

[Cragzop]

If they implemented a delay from when you clicked combine until the result appeared I think they could have their cake and eat it too.

Suppose the delay was proportionate to how far above the trivial you were. Way above trivial and almost no delay, slightly above then more delay and finally below has a long delay. That would make it much less appealing (or at least much less fast) to skillup. It would still simplify CE, CVT etc.

Didn't someone mention that on test there seemed to be a reuse counter on the tradeskill stuff that they found?

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Glass half full or half empty?

*Shrug*. It seems obvious to me that tradeskills have improved dramatically since EQ originally came out. Why should it be different this time?

Some of the improvements,

1. Remember when you could only open up one container at a time?
2. More tradeskill items are stackable.
3. You can get all tradeskills to 250, instead of just one.
4. With shared bank space you no longer have to dead-drop tradeskill components/products or give them to someone else, to get them to your character that needed them.
5. More complete skill-up routes.
6. Stat drinks/food.
7. Many more recipes.
8. No automatic 5% failure rate.
9. You can buy components and sell products in the Bazaar instead of auctioning in GFay or EC.
10. You can make components that you previously had to buy (e.g. Coldain Velium Temper).
11. Containers no longer 'eat' your components if you hit combine and you didn't have the proper components.
12. Containers no long 'eat' excess components if you accidentally put a stack of something in the container instead of a single component.
13. Travelling to/from tradeskill vendors or component drop zones is much less of a pain.

I'm sure that there are improvements that I haven't listed.

Sure, folks will talk about some tradeskilling 'nerf' that irritated them. This might include the smithing 'fix' some time back.

My feeling on the upcoming changes is quite different than some previous posts. Although I only have smithing left to max out, I was wondering whether I should wait for the update before finishing. Doing the combines seems like it's going to get less tedious.

Thicket

[javalin]

"They've stated that this will be for "SOME" items that are trival to you, or slightly above. Don't expect MTPs to be one clickable. Maybe the various components will be though, so it will make them a bit easier to make."



thats how i read it things that are trivial can be used with new ui but this will not be a good way to skill up .

people worry too much wait and see what happens some times change is good

[eniamn]

Originally posted by Quillium
Yes, do them now. Lets take baking as an example. Baking boils down to 2 recipes until 191. Lion fillets and Patty Melts. If either of those trivials change or an item ceases to be store buyable(say cheese), you tell me how we power to 191? Yes, Sony may give you these nice new ways of one-click combining, but they may also remove or modify some of the nice one-click combines that were formerly used to power tradeskills. Whenever a development crew starts addressing an old item, which happens rarely, they usually try to address the entire problem, not just what they were originally out to fix. In doing so, they can, and often do, break things that were formerly working. Its safer to get the soft bumps in the system you know, then the system you don't. Then you don't get caught by surprise come patch day. That was my warning.

-Quillium Lifehamer
65 Warrior Fennin Ro

they can't not sell cheese as there is no other way to get it atm. i made fish rolls. others fillet. patty melts are good but try pinemeyer pasts too. also several not too difficult recipes to the 180s. baking has a lot of potential skillup routes. unless like the smithing patch they lower all trivials.

[Armaged]

Originally posted by javalin
"They've stated that this will be for "SOME" items that are trival to you, or slightly above.

No they don't.
Taken directly from [url]http://eqlive.station.sony.com/updates/upcoming_updates.jsp]EQLive Website[/url.

In the window you will find an area that has all recipes that are currently available to you. This includes recipes that are at your skill level as well as some above it.

Says "some". Some does in no way, shape, or form equal slightly.

However:

Don't expect MTPs to be one clickable. Maybe the various components will be though, so it will make them a bit easier to make.

Is entirely accurate.

If I'm not mistaken, it will be very similar to what UO's tradeskill menus were like when I quit playing that two years ago.

You make all you subcombines first, then you can make the final combine.

Nothing about any of these changes is bad IMHO.

I've 250'd four tradeskills already, as well as near 200 in many others. These changes are naught but good and about time.

[Arghargh]

I'm continuing to do trade skills as if nothing has change becuase as of now nothing has changed. There are so many possible scenarios for possible improvements and nerfs that it doesn't make sense to try to second guess the game designers. We don't know the details. We don't know the date.

When it does happen, then chances are good that all hell will break loose.

Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
65 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek

200 Alchemy
202 Baking
250 Blacksmithing
250 Brewing
200 Fishing
200 Fletching
200 Jewelry
200 Pottery
170 Tailoring

[Zeralenn]

Hindsight is 20-20, as they say. I can say I SHOULD have finished smithing before they made it so fine plate couldn't get you farther than 188 (of course, it's a moot point in my case because I wasn't even playing the game when this happened). I can say I SHOULD have done this or SHOULD have done that, but the real issue is that, rumors aside, we really don't know if they are going to make things better or worse, and how.

And better or worse from whose perspective? If they make things harder for macroers, so much the better. Macroers are the tradeskillers' enemy; they are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for almost all the nerfs in tradeskilling. They take advantage of something to the point that everyone gets punished for it.

...Zera