Level 70 Requirement for Tradeskills..

[Aavar]

I agree with the original poster that there should not be a level restriction, being able to make grandmaster armor should not be level restricted.

now getting the components to be able to make the armor or complete the quest is the problem of the tradeskilll person.

Getting the quest should not be restricted to being of a certain level.

[Boleslav]

Wow, this thread is getting confrontational.

I agree with just about everything Ngreth said on the subject.

Think of the expeditions required for the GM quests. You could gimp through someone of a much lower level with only a couple people in their upper 60s and still be able to gather the necessary components. This means that the limit of being 70 is artificial. It is in no way required to use the armor, or to participate in obtaining the drops for the quest.

With that in mind, I think the level limit should be dropped.

Also, my situation is very close to Angelsyn's. I play a bit more than her, so my main is 66, but I have always managed to stay on the cutting edge of smithing. I was really put out by having to grind 18 AA for Blacksmihting Mastery 3 to keep up with the best smiths, but I managed to do it.

I am extremely disappointed that I will have to get to level 70 before being able to make the best augments for the new armors. I will doubtlessly do it over the next few months, but I believe it is entirely unnecessary.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[Ngreth Thergn]

Yeah, don't "accuse" people of being something please (I.E. accusing them of being a "six boxer"). Even if it was not insulting, it is more confrontational than is needed, even in primal screams.

And no, not closing this thread, just asking people to consider how far they go even here.

[NightGod]

My Cleric would never be able to solo there... no matter what level I am.

Now, that's just patently false. I was soloing for the Oracle quest there at level 65 and VT/very early PoP gear with ease.

[Kytelae]

Just want to say, even though I don't agree with the way this works, I'm not leaving the game, not in a fury, or anything like that

[Aina5]

~

I never thought there was anything confrontational or bad about 6boxing... I know some very amazing people who do this, one guy who 16 box's... saying that was meant to imply he might be in a situation to farm these very easily..

Wisty / Aina~

[Darknyss]

Having a required lvl of 70 to quest and create when the armor created is Required lvl of 65 IMHO is wrong. However, I do not disagree with the lvl requirement in general.

I remember when the last new Cultural armor came out, guilds were creating lvl 1 "tradeskill mules" to create and equip their guilds, rather than utilize one of their own members, or help out the non-guilded tradeskillers out there.

The game is about character development, so having restrictions on things only seems fair, just like rec and req lvls on droppable gear. Sometimes the gear's rec lvl doesn't match what would normally be used or found by people of that level. I think that's the case here. The req lvls's should be there, they should just be more appropriate to what the EQ population would be content with.

[Aina5]

~

I think it would make more sense to limit tradeskills per level in general, not for quests... say maybe level 30 for 100 in tradeskills, 45 for 200, 55 for 250, and maybe 60 or 65 for 300... of course you are limited to levelling each over 200 at a certain point because of the aa required and for masterys of course.

Even that would be extreme though, and of course they wouldnt do that. And yes, there is a lot of difference between a level 1 tradeskill mule, compared to a 63 - 67 main that people just use solely for tradeskills, which I'm sure is the reason that just about everyone here is posting with support.

Seems that they are pretty solid in their reaction to this though, I was in dev chat a few nights ago talking and they said:

"This is something that I've been reviewing feedback on and, while the level restrictions are not going to be removed or changed to skill-based, they *may* be relaxed slightly. I'm still in the process of evaluating these quests, but when I've decided what changes we're going to be doing, I'll make sure we post them."

So I guess thats the only answer to this we'll ever see

Wisty / Aina~

[Serenya]

Quote:
My Cleric would never be able to solo there... no matter what level I am.

Now, that's just patently false. I was soloing for the Oracle quest there at level 65 and VT/very early PoP gear with ease.
__________________

I don't know about the original poster, but my cleric couldn't solo her way out of a wet paper bag, because *I'm* lousy at doing so with a cleric. (Though I'm soloing my hunter constantly in WoW, go figure).


Anyway. My last straw was the level requirements for salvage and mastery. Tradeskills were what I did when I didn't want to level/grind exp, and I was sick of the two being tied together. /shrug I haven't played since November, and I don't miss it. I lurk now and then to see if anything will respark the interest, but nada.

[Zacatac]

Tradeskilling has long been tainted by the requirement for high level characters, starting back to the New Tanaan Crafting Mastery and the need for AA's.

Aid Grimel requirement of full elemental flags (I'm level 70 and still can't do the quest because of that).

Then they put in more AA's to do, with the Mastery AA and Salvage AA. Ok, quick math for the 1750's -
New Tanaan = 18 AA's
Salvage 3 = 15 AA's (and level 70 required)
Mastery AA for all 6 skills = 108 AA's

That's 141 AA's right there (add more if you are enchanter and can buy JC mastery).

Remember the old days, when people made level 1 mules to do a tradeskill over 201 because they wanted to GM a different skill than the one their main already had done?? Waste of time these days. I have a 58 bard with 250 brewing, when I should really have spent the time on AA's and did it myself. He does like the GM item and the +50 cha though . . .

[Wyvernwill]

Some of these posts really confuse me to an extent.

First off, where are all the posts screaming about how the skill gain level cap is with Poison Making, Alchemy and Tinkering? Those have been like that for the longest time.

The big problem here is "Change." People dispise, loathe and fear changes. When pop came out, I heard a lot of people crying that they couldn't solo the drops for tradeskills due to the level of mobs they had to kill. A change from Velious/Luclin trades where they were very easy to attain at max level solo. GoD came out, and there were even gripes about the fact that you had to do silly pita quests just so you could do combines.

I never really heard many problems from Omens, other than the fact that the drops needed are very rare.

Now we come to DoN, and change happens again. IMO, this change is drastically for the better. GM Traders have always grumbled that the items they made were devalued fast by people who would undercut the market by churning out items faster than ever. I do not disagree that there's a level cap, but I will agree that it should match the recommended level.

However, let's rewind to the PoP days. How many people at 46 were able to make Nightmare Silk armor from PoN? I farmed those from the day PoP came out until they removed Spectral Parchment drops from them, getting hundreds if not thousands of Silks from the spiders... but at 60, that came was extremely hard. There have always been "glass ceilings" with tradeskill farming, however this one is a lot more noticable simply because the quest NPC simply says "No."

As for myself, yes, I am level 70. I've always kept my levels up, but I don't preach onto others how they should either. Everyone plays for their own reasons... if yours is to tradeskill, then do so. And before people go saying I miss out on tradeskill, I went through and completed Aid grimel start to finish and am currently working up all 7 trades again. I average 3 hours a night, if that. From 10% into 65 through to 25% into 70 took me not even three weeks.

Sometimes when I hear people gripe about leveling, it reminds me of hippies screaming "Fight the machine! Fight the man!" Individualism is what makes the US great, but there are times when people fail to realize that what they buy, came from someone who did work they refused to. (ie. Take lightning cores for Charged Magnetic)

But tradeskills aren't the only thing I have heard this about, these arguments are strikingly similar to those of Flags and Keyed zones. Some things will never change lol.

[Angelsyn]

Now we come to DoN, and change happens again. IMO, this change is drastically for the better. GM Traders have always grumbled that the items they made were devalued fast by people who would undercut the market by churning out items faster than ever. I do not disagree that there's a level cap, but I will agree that it should match the recommended level.

Sometimes when I hear people gripe about leveling, it reminds me of hippies screaming "Fight the machine! Fight the man!" Individualism is what makes the US great, but there are times when people fail to realize that what they buy, came from someone who did work they refused to. (ie. Take lightning cores for Charged Magnetic)

Quoted the relevant sections.

1) It's almost always the high-level, high-end people who devalue & undercut, because they're only interested in skilling up and selling out. Thus, the Required Level to do the combine actually helps those people...

2) I most assuredly remember the people who farm the higher-end stuff that I cannot. I used to have a couple of regular suppliers of Magnetized gear, for example... I would pay them a fair market price, then turn around and make the armour for sale. Everybody won. The "farmers" won because they were getting paid by me for the byproducts of their xping. I won because I was able to get the last couple points of Smithing using Magnetic armour recipies. The other sellers won because I never undercut. And the buyers won because fair competition kept Magnetic armour prices competative with other items.

[Wyvernwill]

In statement 1, you brought up a point I went over. When people say something is "Devalued" what exactly does that mean?

Back when I started tailoring, when the Velious leathers were the big thing, I noticed something that a lot of tradeskillers were grumbling about. One person on our server was maxed skill and made so much of the traditional skill up items that her prices fixed the market and it was hard for rising tailors to make any money against the massive amounts of failures.

Anyway, her prices slowly became the constant, and as you saw more tradeskillers get to 250, people constantly undercut her, but her prices never really changed. Now my question is, did she devalue the item? To tell the truth, she could have earned a WHOLE lot more for those items early on than she did, but she just kept a consistent, fair price.

When you look at this new Cultural, sure it is going to sell extremely well for a while, simply based on the fact that there are a lot of people whom want it. But that will keep prices high. When that early "must have it" demand fades, the price will plummet, simply because having an item on your trader for what you use to make, when no one is paying that anymore, is rather pointless.

With Solstice Robes, I use to be able to sell those for 10k when they first came out. After about two-three months, they dwindled down to 5k, then a month later, 1k. Same with the Acrylia Studded Cloaks, prices almost always go down. But is their going down simply most have what they want, or is it because some punk is willing to accept 500 or 10k less plat for what they put their time and effort into than you?

[Blayze Meduenin]

Aid Grimel requirement of full elemental flags (I'm level 70 and still can't do the quest because of that).

Then they put in more AA's to do, with the Mastery AA and Salvage AA. Ok, quick math for the 1750's -
New Tanaan = 18 AA's
Salvage 3 = 15 AA's (and level 70 required)
Mastery AA for all 6 skills = 108 AA's

That's 141 AA's right there (add more if you are enchanter and can buy JC mastery).

aid grimel is different its not a recipe its a raid and tradeskill quest

also the aas are optional, theres nothing you can make with them you couldnt make without.

this is totally different this is a mainstream set of recipes that need you to be 70.

to the 2 above posters, yeah the ones who tradeskilled up to farm and sell gear are usually high end raiders who could get the stuff easier, so the lvl requiredment as pointed out not only doesnt stop it, it evn lets them corner the market from 'main' tradeskillers!
way to go sony!

[Wyvernwill]

so the lvl requiredment as pointed out not only doesnt stop it, it evn lets them corner the market from 'main' tradeskillers!
way to go sony!

So.. let me get the straight. To be a "main" tradeskiller you have to be sub lvl 70, can't raid, can't do quests, all you can do is tradeskill? Just because someone may have the time in the day to log in, do tradeskills, raid and exp in a day vs someone who only really takes the time in to do tradeskills doesn't make a difference. Just because someone may choose to sell everything they make vs give it away or use it to twink their alts does that make their accomplishments any less.

Most of the people I hear the major complaints from on these boards are lvl 66-68. Those levels are not hard to do if you take a few days to work at them. Above, I do agree the required to do the quest is too high, but the level requirement should remain.

Incase people have forgotten... everything in EQ requires working at it. Epic 1.5s have required levels. Those are supposedly "Class Defining" quests... why should people be required to level up to get their 1.5/2.0? Incase people have forgotten, AA's have ALWAYS been level guided. Lets see here, when they came out their Requirements were 51/55/59. PoP came along 61/63/65, some were varied, but pretty much the pattern. GOD was all lvl 65. Omens was pretty much the same as pop 66/68/70. When you level up, new things open up to you.

Are all the quests level capped or just the Grandmaster's?

Tradeskillers are tradeskillers, regardless of what else they do in EQ. I don't like thinking people demean my accomplishments and goals with Tradeskills simply because I do them as I can when I am not getting drug off to various zones for exp groups. In one way or another, everything gets tied together in EQ. Tradeskills, Raids, Exping, Quests... they have all had times where they got tied together and times when they haven't. Too often people fail to remember the past.

How many of those of you complaining about the level cap GM'd Smithing off Fine Steel armor?