Level 70 Requirement for Tradeskills..

[Lonefeather]

What I'm wondering is what are you going to do with the new armor once you make it. From what I've read on this board, the grandmaster stuff has a required level of 69 to equip? What 69 level player is going to buy it from you when they have the ability to obtain better stuff on their own at that level? And if you can sell it, just how much is it worth if you have to be level 69 to wear it? Is it really worth the effort involved to get one bag full patterns? Oh well, maybe I have some of my facts wrong, I don't know, but something doesn't seem right.

[ColdHeart]

First, anyone of any character lvl can make the base armour. You need to do the tasks to make the Augs which have the effects. This is an important difference.

Please note not all lvl 70 characters are in the top end guilds. Just like "casual" TSers who get to 250 but are lvl 54 you have "casual" players who may well get to lvl 70 but can't get the top end drops because they don't raid.

I am lvl 70, I play in a guild who raids (moving through PoP atm). I want the GM Boots at least as they are a nice upgrade to what I am currently using.

Next, for a guild who has some members who can get the drops for this stuff can also equip their guild for not much effort. You need 1 character per race to get to 300 smithing, this character can be a lvl 1 alt if you really want as you just need to hand in 4 newbie mob drops.

Then get one of the people who are getting the drops to get to lvl 65+, 300 Smithing and get them to do the GM Task. That person can then make the augs for the guild.

And what are you getting out of this? ~EP lvl equipment. What confusses me is it sounds like people want to be able to get Raided equipment without the raiding. This game is all based around balance between effort and reward. TS effort < Raid effort. Look what happened with Ranger DPS when they let EP bows into the market. Until people can get into EPs and get the weapon drops, rangers are the best DPS around.

SoE are slowly opening up what can be obtained outside of raiding, these armours are no different. Why should the armour be easily made when they are becoming the best buyable armour in the game.

[Elyssanda]

What I'm wondering is what are you going to do with the new armor once you make it. From what I've read on this board, the grandmaster stuff has a required level of 69 to equip?

Grandmaster's Wayguard Cuirass
MAGIC ITEM ATTUNEABLE
Slot: CHEST
AC: 99
STR: +5 STA: +5 WIS: +4 INT: +4 AGI: +5 HP: +40 MANA: +40 ENDUR: +40
SV FIRE: +4 SV DISEASE: +4 SV COLD: +4 SV MAGIC: +4 SV POISON: +4
Recommended level of 69. Required level of 65

[Kcalehc]

....Once upon a time there were no high-end items worth making in tradeskills. (For example, in smithing for almost 4 years the best armor you could make was Fine Plate, and NO ONE was going to wear it.) ....

slight derail, but Fine Plate was my top seller for about 9 months way back when, shifted loads of the stuff; it was slightly better than bronze and lighter to boot, and great for twinkage. Even Banded sold pretty decently back in its day, shifting suits at a time in EC while skilling up. Perhaps its just the server you played on that didn't like it, but as I recall the top end smithing stuff (whatever it was, Banded, Fine Plate, Old Cultural, BD Cultural, EP) has always been a good seller while it was new and at the top.

However, back to the level 70 thing. Glad that its down to 65 now, though I doubt I'll ever manage to convince anyone to come help me do the quest for it, so I'll just stick at Master's level anyway. It must be hard to strike the balance between the genuine tradeskillers doing it for the fun and chance to skill up and the farmers who will just do it for the money/twink value. Level restrictions might be the way, but that only makes it hard for the low level people; but then as has been mentioned leveling is the main aspect of the game in its intent. Ah well, back t' forge for me...

[maartena]

Maybe I'm not quite understanding this..... Something NEW got added that requires you to have level 70? So for those below 70 basically nothing changes, or do I have it wrong?

[Angelsyn]

Maybe I'm not quite understanding this..... Something NEW got added that requires you to have level 70? So for those below 70 basically nothing changes, or do I have it wrong?

Actually, they tuned that downward... The recipies now require you to have the "required" level on the armour in order to craft it, where before they required you to have the "recommended" level on the armour.

So Masters armour can be crafted by level 55+ characters & Grandmasters armour can be crafted by level 65+ characters.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Maybe I'm not quite understanding this..... Something NEW got added that requires you to have level 70? So for those below 70 basically nothing changes, or do I have it wrong?

Depends how you look at it. Before those below 65 were on relatively even footing with everyone. Now, they have a strictly-enforced set of marketable valuable combines which they cannot attempt. So the relative position of the 64- tradeskilling crowd has dropped, compared to the 65+ tradeskilling crowd, in terms of potential options.

So while nothing was directly taken away, they did very much lose something - a bit more of their equality.

Not saying whether that's good or bad, or how close/far they were to equivalent before, I'm just saying it is a change.

[Blayze Meduenin]

wyvernwill, take a dep breath, calm down and read what i said again, maybe youll get it, but in case you dont ill try one last time to spell it out to you in simpler terms.

us = main trade skillers , them = non main tradeskillers who just power lvld a tradeskill to farm it and sell (i.e they have no interest in the tradeskill and didnt even bother till they could farm something and then just spent a cple days at the skill to do that only - this makes them a non main tradekskiller)

giving your analogy but thats not what i was saying at all.

First i was replyng to someone else who brought this up and that IF that was the intention in the lvl 70 requirement it wouldnt be effective

second i never said that all main tradeskillers were below lvl 70 and werent raiders. I said that those who invariable do the farm to sell ARE the high end raiders, since others simply are unable to do that.

Third why should someone who is a main tradeskiller HAVE to also be a raider and be lvl 70? that makes zero sense. I have no problem with a high end raider quest using tradeksills (i.e aid grimel) but a mainline recipe shouldnt be a high end raider only province.

and finally since they have atleast reduced the lvl to 65 that makes it better, i still dont agree with it however (and im lvl 67 so i can make it now)
i) to power tradeskill an alt to do stuff you must have the resources of a high lvl player anyway (since to get to 300 is way beyond the scope of a low lvl except in the long slow normal way)
ii) given that a power tradeskill alt has the resources of a high lvl player you dont need the low lvl alt anyway, just power tradeskill the main. This main being of the lvl anyway so that the lvl restriction does nothing to stop power tradeskill lvling from making it. Thus missing the mark as all it does is stop legitimate low lvl tradeskillers making it.

Last post and last time im reading this thread. Just try to get a grip im not anti raiders, im not anti lvl 70, im anti {bad} implementation by soe that totally misses the mark and does nothing to prevent a problem, just punishes those who happen not to be high lvl or raiders or whatever.

[Aauminki]

So yeah, if you're below level 70 you want equal opportunity to do the GM quests - because you're getting penalized for wanting to do tradeskills and not wanting to level?

Well, if that has to be true then I would submit that I would like to have equal chance of succesful combines at my skill of 1 as your skill of 300, afterall, I just didn't want to grind the clicks on my mouse to get my tradeskills up, I leveled instead, why should I be penalized?

[ColdHeart]

The rant here is becoming that TS is becoming lvl based as well as skill based.

Lets take a quick look at the other current big MMORGs out there.

EQ2: Your TS lvl reflects what you can make, how ever you are unlikely to be able to farm the ingredients yourself unless your adventuring lvl is the same as your TS lvl. Hence you have to trade with other people to get the bits you need.

However your TS lvl and Adventuring lvl are independent and you can be a lvl 50 smith while being a lvl 8 scout.

WoW: Your TS lvl is restricted by your character lvl. You cannot buy the training to progress beyond certain skill lvls until you reach certain class lvls. resources again scale with the places they are in, you can't get the ingredients for the top end stuff unless you are high enough lvl to survive in the right zones.


Old EQ: Item trivial was not scaled to item power. BD Cultral had higher trivs than Planer armour. Velium Gemmed weapons were barely over 250 triv. Your skill to make these were totally unrelated to your class lvl. However ingredients dropped in appropriately lvl hardness zones.

New EQ: Item trivial is being scaled with the items power. The items you can make are reflecting the the character lvl you are and the zones you can potentially enter. A limited number of combines have an indirect lvl restriction based on quests needed to get the ingredients. These lvl restrictions are based on the restrictions of the items being made and the lvl people will need to be to get the drops for the items.

I see EQ reflecting the current MMORG market more in that certain combines are restricted by lvl. If you really want to do any combine your skill lets you, play EQ2. However for the balance of EQ they are making the TS system follow the lvl progression more.

For the arguement that a tradeskiller should not have to be lvl 70 to make certain items, this is EQ, not the real world. People do go adventuring and SoE have decided that the people who can teach you how to make the best Augs for the new cultral armour don't want to give it to people who can't defend themselves.

I'd just like to add that even without the lvl restriction on the quest, it will be hard for sub lvl 65 people to complete them. But these items are very powerful and result from a Quest + TS, hence why they are so nice.

[Loviotor]

I'm level 70, have over 300 AA's, have NOT spent the AA's into any of the masteries or salvage, yet, and don't intend to, anytime soon. I, personally, feel that you should not only be able to GM all tradeskills at level 1, but you should also get experience equal to the amount of time you spend doing the tradeskills.

I greatly enjoy tradeskilling, but lack the patience to actually farm the stuff and work them up any higher, and I refuse to go farm plat to just go spend 100k+ to get one or more of them maxxed out.

[Wyvernwill]

You and I are of the same boat in the lvl 70, 470 AA here. Still have yet to buy one mastery or salvage AA. As I exp and prefer to be of use in my role as a puller and MT... I am forced to spend points on what I need to survive a hunt vs what I want in bettering my trades. That's a choice I make.

Second point... You don't have to level to 65 to do the armor, however, you do have to level to 65 to do the Symbols. Big difference. You can make the armor, you just can't make the symbols. It's a give and take. So yes, it is still viable to skill up on the armor at lower levels from what I have read regarding the combines.

As for farming plat... plat happens. I have been working on farming for human cultural armor in OoT off the Seafuries. Between all the VT, killing Gornit every five minutes, and doing those camps for about 5 hours... I usually pick up 100pp per Mug of Sea Foam. In a five hour binge slaughter, I made almost 5kpp. Spending a few k to get a couple extra combines has never bothered me because of that.

Blayze, though you stated you aren't going to read this forum anymore, I want to address a couple things with you. The first being that... just because people raid doesn't mean they do trades just to farm and sell out. Just because someone doesn't raid, doesn't mean they aren't doing trades to farm and sell out to make money to fund purchasing new gear.

The statements I have read from you have been littered with grey areas and loop holes. But then again, there really is no way to mass generally classify people. To give you an example... with Velious Leathers, I kept track of people who undercut me, and the people I followed them back to were mostly mid level. What that means, is regardless of the actual level of a tradeskiller's main, they sell stuff off to make some money, or recoup losses.

Everyone does that otherwise there really is no point to tradeskills other than a number of a mass loss of Platinum. This whole argument comes down to with the new Cultural only the people able to farm it are the one's making mass amounts of cash vs those who can't buy/farm the items are not making as much. Level is not the issue with the Armor part of Cultural as, from what I have read, the level restriction is only for making the augments and nothing else.

With that being a fact, this argument also would include Planes of Power, in which Smithing, Pottery, Tailoring, Fletching were all only really money makers if you could farm the Elemental Planes as (on my server atleast) buying all of the items was a huge investment of cash, sometimes upwards of 30k per combine, and only sold for about 50-130k depending on what you made. The point I am trying to make is simple... to gather the items to make the best stuff, you have to expect those items to drop in zones relative to the armor itself.

It would have been sickening to see PoP Elem style items dropping in PoN/PoStorms/Valor, when you couldn't even get Ornate at those levels, that was by far better than Ornate. Where things drops, and the level of the mobs that drop them is reasoned out for the balance of the game as a whole. Not whether or not all tradeskillers have an equal opportunity to gather the needed parts themselves.