I played with DoDH research today, and this is what I found

[Xulan]

On the flip side, the demand for those "common" drops is going to be 4 times as high since all 4 int caster classes use them.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how it turns out on live servers.

For me its only of interest as a skillup path, because PoP spells are very common on my server. I'm guessing prices on these "common" components is going to be through the roof as people rush to hit 300.

Yes, they will go up, no doubt. One is farmable in one zone in the present content and one drops just about everywhere, but you can't really farm it.

The money to be made most likely won't be pop spells - this will just drop the price of current ones most likely - but the money will be made selling the non-ancient Gates spells for each class. Almost each class has at least 1 that is worth-while.

[Maevenniia]

Add'l info from Caisersoze that I had posted in wrong forum/thread:

<snip>

...here's a general research writeup I did for my guild...


RESEARCH!!!!
Research is now a true tradeskill, restricted class use though. Very in depth setup, combining mostly vendor components, but there are some drop-only components, such as the various parchments you actually scribe the spells onto, to limit the entry of created spells into the game. There is such a degree of complexity that you will love the ability to learn recipes in your tradeskill container window - you wont want to have to remember all this, or refer to a list every time you want to make an item... Here is the complete rundown from all 8 books - combination of direct copying and interpretation for recipes - have fun =)


Book text: Volume 1

I still fail to understand how anyone ever made spells the way they did before we got trapped down here. The sheer randomness of it! So I decided thatere must be a better way and after much research I found that by using specific paper, specific quills, and modifying specific inks, that one could make spells in a way never done before. This and the following bvolumes will explain my method.

Parchment is th basis of all spells. The parchment used will determine how powerful the spell you scribe will be. I have not found a way to make it yet, but many of the beings in this underground area carry various pieces of parchment that can be used, after perparation. I will further detail the perparation of the parchment in volume two. Once you have the paper you will need to decide what quill to use. the quill you use is different for each profession that will be using the spell. Sometimes there are spells that more than one profession can use, and it is difficult to decide which to use. Voume three will explain how to choose quills, and how to make the various quills.
Next you will choose what inks to use. Along with the specific inscriptions that you make, the type of ink used for that inscription is importan. Some inks work for inscriptions that cause damage, some for inscriptions that affect a person's body and other inks for othere particular effects. I will detail this more in volumes four, five and six. After you have chosedn the ink you use, you will need to modify it with an additive and a thickener to counterbalance the thinning of the ink from the addititve. The addititive you use determines how the spell will be resisted by the target, while the thickener determines the general type of spell that you are scribing. The details for this will be described in volume seven. Fuinallly, from time to time there are spells whose formula would be the same, but they became available in our world at a different time. When this happens, the newer spell will need to use a special drying powder that is specifc to the fegein where it became available.

I currently only know of one drying powder, it is made by heating a sample of highland sludge in your spell reearch kit. Speaking of the spell research kit, I have made a new kit that has all of the supplies you will need to do rspell research with my method. I have made this kit available for a pittance because i wish for the world to know of my way of making spell.; It has inkwells, quill cutting implements, and a very small set of alchemeical devices, and a small mortar and pestle to make those powders. Before you get excited about the alchemical devices, this kit is only useful for working with liquids and powders, and does not do as good a job as the tool that shamans have to work with. You will not be able ot make the wondrous potions that they are able to make with this kit.


Volume 2-7: A summary( not bothering writing up 5-10 pages of full text for each book for these)

1) Parchments are level restricted - if attempting to use an incorrect parchment type, there is at least a strong chance that the parchment will burn up when you complete the process - you get a warning about hte parchment heating up before this happens, at which point you can stop the process before its too late. You do not have the option to try putting a low level spell on a high level parchment, the ink wont even leave your quill.

5 Parchment types, dropped
Clean the parchment with celestial cleanser, then immediately treat with appropriate treament solution

Acids and Cleaners - these are components used in cleaning the parchments.

• Aqua Regia - Also known as Acid of the Kings
  Vial of Muriatic Acid
  Aqua Fortis
  
• Muriatic Acid
  Fine Salt
  Oil of Vitrol
  Gnomish Heat Source
  
• Aqua Fortis
  Saltpeter
  Oil of Vitrol
  
• Oil of Vitrol
  Saltpeter
  Crystallized Sulfur
  Vial of Pure Water
  Gnomish Heat Source
  
• Vial of Pure Water - yield 5
  4 water flasks
  5 empty vials
  gnomish heat source
  
• Celestial Cleanser
  Celestial Solvent
  3 Vials of pure water
  Empty Vial
  
• Empty Vial - cleaned
  Dirty empty vial
  3 vials of pure water

Solutions: Disolve the gems/etc in aqua regia, then apply that result with the following items an apply heat

• Parchment solution
  Fire emerald
  aqua regia
  vial of pure water
  heat source
  
• Fine parchment solution
  Fire emerald
  Aqua regia
  3 gold bars
  2 vials pure water
  4 heat sources
  
• Velium parchment soultuion
  platinum bar
  3 gold bars
  aqua regia
  vial of pure water
  3 heat sources
  
• Fine velium parchment solution
  platiunum bar
  fire opal
  aqua regia + muriatic acid
  two vials pure water
  2 heat sources
  
• Runic parchment solution
  platinum bar
  gold bar
  star ruby
  aqua regia + muriatic acid
  vial pure water
  heat source

QUILL SELECTION
Quills are based on class of spell user - use appropriate class quill if only one class can use the resulting spell. If multiple can use it though.... use the quill of the class that gets the spell first. If multiple classes get the spell at same time, then there is a priority order:
INT casters > Priests > Hybrids.
"Finally, if there continutes to be a tie, such that multiple professions twithin the same class of professions attain the spell at the same power level, then use one of the quills that is of a more generic nature." These are teh Arcane/Divine/Knight quills

Quills are single use. Quills are made by treating a normal qill with two quill treatments, and then cutting to the appropriate shape.

• Quill of the Coercer
  Arcane Treatment
  Enchanting Treatment
  
• Quill of the ARch Convoker
  Arcane Treatment
  Elemental Treatment
  
• Quill of hte Arch Lich
  Arcane Treatment
  Necrotic Treatment
  
• Quill of the Arcanist
  Arcane Treatment
  Thaumaturge Treatment
  
• Quill of the Archon
  Divine Treatment
  Holy Treatment
  
• Quill of the STorm Warden
  Divine Treatment
  Elemental Treatment
  
• Quill of the Prophet
  Divine Treatment
  Necrotic Treatment
  
• Quill of the Feral Lord
  Knight's Treatment
  Arcane Treatment
  
• Quill of the Forest Stalker
  Knight's Treatment
  Elemental Treatment
  
• Quill of the Dread Lord
  Knight's Treatment
  Necrotic Treatment
  
• Quill of the Lord Protector
  Knight's Treatment
  Holy Treatment
  
• Quill of the Maestro
  Knight's Treatment
  Enchanting Treatment
  
• [/b]Quill of the Arcane[/b]
  2 Arcane Treatments
  
• Quill of the Divine
  2 Divine Treatments
  
• Quill of the Knight
  2 Knight treatments

INKS
Mix appropriate pigments/powders with pure water

• Ink of Ro - FR modifying spells
  Madder Pigment
  Tin Powder
  
• Ink of E'ci - CR modifying spells
  Logwood Pigment
  Alum Powder
  
• Ink of Druzzil Ro - MR modifying spells
  Logwood Pigment
  Iron Powder
  
• Ink of Marr - Stunning effect spells & stun resistance spells
  Titanium Powder
  
• Ink of Saryn - PR modifiers & poison duration modifiers
  Fustic Pigment
  Copper Powder
  
• Ink of Bertoxxulous - DR modifiers and disease duration modifiers
  Catechu pigment
  Alum powder
  
• Ink of Terris Thule - duration of Curse effects
  Coal Powder
  
• Ink of Rainbows - spells that affect ALL resists: If a spell, such as Malos line, affects multiple resistances, use Rainbow ink and the ink of the resistance that is NOT affected.
  Prismatic Pigment
  
• Ink of the Rhino - STR modifying spells
  Limonite powder
  
• Ink of the Bear - STA modifying spells
  Malachite powder
  
• Ink of the Cat - AGI modifying spells
  Litharge powder
  
• Ink of the Monkey - DEX modifying spells
  Galena Powder
  
• Ink of the Dal - WIS modifying spells
  Cinnabar powder
  Lapis Lazuli powder
  
• Ink of the Erudite - INT modifying spells
  Graphite Powder
  
• Ink of the Serpent - CHA modifying spells
  Gypsum powder
  
• Ink of the Nameless - All Stats modifying spells
  Similar to Ink of the Rainbow, for spells that affect multiple stats but not all, also use the ink(s) of the stats NOT affected.
  
• Ink of Tunare - hp over a period of time (not instant effects)
  Fustic Pigment
  2 Iron Powders
  
• Ink of Prexus - Spell power availability affecting spells(mana, likely current and/or pool size)
  Catechu Pigment
  Alum Powder
  Tin Powder
  
• Ink of the Boar - Endurance pool modifying spells(possible typo, likely current/max hp, heals + buffs)
  Logwood Pigment
  2 Iron Powders
  
• Ink of the Eagle - Vision affecting spells, can account for multiple vision effects in one spell.
  Azurite Powder
  
• Ink of Alacrity - Movement and Attack Rate haste spells
  Mercury Powder
  
• Ink of Zek - ATK modifying spells
  Hematite Powder
  
• Ink of the Tribunal - AC modifying spells
  Magnetite powder
  
• Ink of the Listless - Movement and Attack Rate slow spells
  Manganese powder
  
• Ink of Ayonae Ro - Charm effects
  Gypsum powder
  Chromium powder
  
• Ink of the Companion - Pet summoning spells
  Logwood Pigment
  chromium powder
  
• Ink of Xegony - Air effects
  Azurite powder
  titanium powder
  
• Ink of the Rathe - Earth effects
  catechu pigment
  magnetite powder
  
• Ink of Cazic Thule - Fear effects
  catechu pigment
  copper powder
  
• Ink of Pain - Damage effects, Damage Prevention, Damage Shields
  Hematite powder
  chromium powder
  
• Ink of Innoruuk - hate increasing/decreasing effects
  Madder pigment
  hematite powder
  
• Ink of Forgetfulness - blur effects
  Manganese powder
  Litharge powder
  
• Ink of Tranquility - calm effects (harmony/etc)
  Limonite Powder
  Titanium powder

Then, you need to use additives and thickeners during hte crafting as well.. additives are merchant sold, and are chosen by what RESIST the spell checks against, or if a spell is unresistable/beneficial, there are also additives for spells that check vs. prismatic or chromatic.



Thickeners you make yourself - grind gems into dust along with herbs, determined by the type of spell.

• Arcane Thickener - used for DD
  2 Opals
  Fennel
  
• Al Kabor Thickener - used for AE damage
  Opal
  Topaz
  Mystic Ash
  
• Extending Thickener - DoTs
  2 Amber
  Yarrow
  
• Expatiating Thickener - DoT multi targets or AE
  Amber
  Topaz
  Vetiver Root
  
• Ameliorating Thickener - Heals
  2 Peridot
  Thyrayniss
  
• Mitigating Thickener - AE/Group heals
  PEridot
  Topaz
  Sea Spirit
  
• Soothing Thickener - Duration Heals
  2 Pearls
  Vetiver Root
  
• Assuaging Thickener - Group/AE Duration Heals
  PEarl
  Topaz
  Vetiver Root
  
• Invigorating Thickener - Single Buffs
  2 Emerald
  Elderberry
  
• Talisman Thickener - Group/AE buffs
  Emerald
  Topaz
  Thrayniis
  
• Debilitating Thickener - Single Debuffs
  2 Jade
  Yarrow
  
• Enervating Thickener - AE debuffs
  Jade
  Topaz
  Vetiver Root
  
• Conjuring Thickener - Conjuration spells
  2 Topaz
  Vetiver Root
  
• Consuming Thickener - Life/Mana taps..maybe manafeed also
  Opal
  Peridot
  Elderberry

[Quinnotetiquan]

Vial of Pure Water - yield 5
4 water flasks
5 empty vials
gnomish heat source

Celestial Cleanser
Celestial Solvent
3 Vials of pure water
Empty Vial

Empty Vial - cleaned
Dirty empty vial
3 vials of pure water

So it takes 3 vials of pure water to make an empty vial, but it takes 5 empty vials to make 5 vials of pure water? /boggle

[Bobaten]

Although the combines are more complicated, it is a lot easier to get the components. There are "common" dropped components for the acids/cleansers, and then the only other dropped component is the parchment. Once you get the parchment, you can make *any* spell of that parchment's level. That means that there are basically 5 drops and that is it as far as what would be stopping you from making a spell combine attempt. No more having to find yaeth 73 right, or hoping some other particular piece drops out of however many research parts there are (100ish?). Once you have the drop, it allows you access an attempt at any of 1/5th of the spells on the entire research table.

Currently for the 50-60 spells, there are 167 different drops. Almost half of these are enchanter pages. My bank space yearns for this complicated system with fewer dropped parts

[Xulan]

So it takes 3 vials of pure water to make an empty vial, but it takes 5 empty vials to make 5 vials of pure water? /boggle

Even the book from which that combine is taken says it is cheaper/easier just to buy new vials =)

[Taadieri]

I just want to be clear. Is this new system useable to make any spell of any level or just the level 61-65 spells?

Xulan's initial post would seem to indicate it is just for the 61-65 spells which would make sense given that there are already recipes for most lower level spells and the 66-70 OoW spells are too new to be given an alternate source.

On the other hand, the text from Volume 1 in Caiser's post seems to imply it works for any spell, and someone in the trader's channel in-game insisted that they had read a developer post that the OoW spells would be researchable but they didn't say where they read it.

[Bobaten]

Parchments determine the level of the spell, and there are only 5 different parchments, so its only 61-65. The dev comment was that the oow spells would be available in DoD content, not that they would be researched.

[Taadieri]

Good, that does make more sense than the alternative.

[Xulan]

I just want to be clear. Is this new system useable to make any spell of any level or just the level 61-65 spells?

Xulan's initial post would seem to indicate it is just for the 61-65 spells which would make sense given that there are already recipes for most lower level spells and the 66-70 OoW spells are too new to be given an alternate source.

On the other hand, the text from Volume 1 in Caiser's post seems to imply it works for any spell, and someone in the trader's channel in-game insisted that they had read a developer post that the OoW spells would be researchable but they didn't say where they read it.

On that note, it does appear that with future parchment types in future expansions that oow (and other era) spells would eventually be able to be researched using the same system, if they desired, which is pretty cool.

[Amaruk]

Anyone look at the cost yet?

well looking at this list I see that spell research is now VERY expensive to raise to the higher levels. Anyone done some math to find out just how much you need to spend to make the different level spells? It looks to be about 200pp just to clean the parchment for use, about 20pp for the thickener, around 10pp for the ink, and an unknown amount for the quill. All that X the number of combines per point (Lets guess 20) so around 5kpp per point to raise research using this method? Not including the cost of aquiring the parchment from the hunters.

Considering how many combines I had to do to get one point at the lower levels it will cost a lot of pp to raise your skill up to 300.

[Cyrint Aircaller]

I prefere expensive to imposible and 5k / point isnt very much, only fear is that drop rate is as retarded as previus research items.

[ruodrra]

thank you all for the excellent information!!!

Lesson learned? be careful for what you wish LOL

The new system seems mind boggling! However, I will reserve judgement until I see it on live.

However, :

1 -- If this Is this an 'overlay' to the old research system, the old system of runes/words would appear to be still in place for spells up to level 60. If that is the case, the rare drop issue and path to skill up to 200 may not have been fixed at all. If so, you still have to hunt for yaeth 73R.

2 -- Do I need the expansion to use the system?

thanks again.

[Xulan]

One thing that I *really* like about research 200+ is that it won't be a "skill-up" tradeskill anymore. Sure, people will try and maybe a few will succeed (we'll see), but it's more of a skill that will be raised slowly over time via making spells. This is how all tradeskills should have been from the beginning, imo, but that is hard to regulate.

I know there is a desire to raise the skill and be the best. However, I rather enjoy right now that I've decided not to farm furs and pump out combines to get my tailoring skill to 300. Instead, I'm just laying back and enjoying it, doing combines as people desire them. If there was an store-bought path, I would have taken it and never experienced the as-I-go skill-up path. I'm actually glad now that solstice robe trivials were lowered or I'd still be at it.

I like that concept though I know others will not. Preference thing. You now have an unsullied skill "gap" from ~200 to 300 where you know those people who do get to 300 will do it over time as it goes by since there really is no way to farm crystallized sulfur apart from bazaar or vendor diving. It has a certain je-ne-sais-quoi about it that tailoring has at 252+.

[Xulan]

thank you all for the excellent information!!!

Lesson learned? be careful for what you wish LOL

The new system seems mind boggling! However, I will reserve judgement until I see it on live.

However, :

1 -- If this Is this an 'overlay' to the old research system, the old system of runes/words would appear to be still in place for spells up to level 60. If that is the case, the rare drop issue and path to skill up to 200 may not have been fixed at all. If so, you still have to hunt for yaeth 73R.

2 -- Do I need the expansion to use the system?

thanks again.

You'll need the expansion unless you can have someone else ferry out all the stuff you buy from the vendor npc's for the sub-combines (unless they added this stuff to other vendors which I do not believe they did (but won't know until we look). The vendor is just inside the zone-in from lavastorm pretty much and right next to a banker to boot. It was put in a very convenient place but suggests that one would want the expansion to be able to get the materials easily. I did not check the spell container for no-drop status as well.

[CaiserSoze]

The cleaning of a dirty empty vial yields 4 empty vials btw, not one - the vials of pure water you use in the cleaning become empty once you empty them.. =)