Elegant Charm Data (charms currently bugged)

[Ngreth Thergn]

No eta and nop plans confirmed

[Telorea]

Can we have an idea of what the changes to the charms will be, and if there will be a review and further upgrade if needed?

At the moment the barbarian shaman one is pretty useless: the AC is really low and for some bizzare reason the mana is higher than the HP - which everyone knows is totally wrong for shaman.

[Telorea]

Well for the Barbarian Shaman Charm the stats with a full suit of Elegant are:

AC 28, HP 300, Mana 405, +19 vs all Saves, with some heroic stam and wisdom (one was +3, the other +4, cannot remember which way around), and the mod2s it had before.

Overall it is not too bad but needs a little more added to it still.

• The AC is still low at 28, even the artisan charm is AC 30.
• For general HP/Mana and other stats it is worse than the Oil Can charm even after you consider the extra aug slot.
• Having Mana higher than HP is totally wrong for shaman class. For Shaman HP is much higher priority. I would instantly trade 100 mana for 50 more HP on any piece of gear, having 405 Mana and only 300 HP is the wrong way around - it should be 405 HP and 300 Mana.

[Ratblaster]

Well for the Barbarian Shaman Charm the stats with a full suit of Elegant are:

AC 28, HP 300, Mana 405, +19 vs all Saves, with some heroic stam and wisdom (one was +3, the other +4, cannot remember which way around), and the mod2s it had before.

Overall it is not too bad but needs a little more added to it still.

• The AC is still low at 28, even the artisan charm is AC 30.
• For general HP/Mana and other stats it is worse than the Oil Can charm even after you consider the extra aug slot.
• Having Mana higher than HP is totally wrong for shaman class. For Shaman HP is much higher priority. I would instantly trade 100 mana for 50 more HP on any piece of gear, having 405 Mana and only 300 HP is the wrong way around - it should be 405 HP and 300 Mana.

I agree that I would prefer to have higher HP than mana on the charm (400/400 vs 300/400), although overall I think the charm got a fair upgrade. Since it's classed as a tier3 charm, it does still come in below the stats on the crystallos sandblasted charm (as expected).

Also, for many people who do both the Wanderlust aug quest and Slipgear aug quest, the actual AC might increase over Artisan charm. Consider that the aug slots on Artisan charm were type 7 and 8, while the Elegant charm has slots 7 and 9 (allowing usage of both the 10 ac slipgear and 12 ac Wanderlust). The gain in base stats now is also enough of an increase over the artisan charm to offset the loss of a type-8 charm raid aug (for those few lucky people who got a type-8 125 hp charm aug in DoD off Draygun or Sendaii

[Angelsyn]

Well for the Barbarian Shaman Charm the stats with a full suit of Elegant are:

AC 28, HP 300, Mana 405, +19 vs all Saves, with some heroic stam and wisdom (one was +3, the other +4, cannot remember which way around), and the mod2s it had before.

Overall it is not too bad but needs a little more added to it still.

• The AC is still low at 28, even the artisan charm is AC 30.
• For general HP/Mana and other stats it is worse than the Oil Can charm even after you consider the extra aug slot.
• Having Mana higher than HP is totally wrong for shaman class. For Shaman HP is much higher priority. I would instantly trade 100 mana for 50 more HP on any piece of gear, having 405 Mana and only 300 HP is the wrong way around - it should be 405 HP and 300 Mana.

The Mana is higher than the HP because it's the generic "healer-class" charm. The exact same stats will appear for Druids & Clerics in their charms.

I also imagine that Wisdom is the one with the +4 Heroic stat, given that it's a "healer-class" charm.

[Archus]

I agree that I would prefer to have higher HP than mana on the charm (400/400 vs 300/400), although overall I think the charm got a fair upgrade. Since it's classed as a tier3 charm, it does still come in below the stats on the crystallos sandblasted charm (as expected).

Also, for many people who do both the Wanderlust aug quest and Slipgear aug quest, the actual AC might increase over Artisan charm. Consider that the aug slots on Artisan charm were type 7 and 8, while the Elegant charm has slots 7 and 9 (allowing usage of both the 10 ac slipgear and 12 ac Wanderlust). The gain in base stats now is also enough of an increase over the artisan charm to offset the loss of a type-8 charm raid aug (for those few lucky people who got a type-8 125 hp charm aug in DoD off Draygun or Sendaii

I use the Artisan Charm with Slipgear and Wanderlust augs, so the Elegant Charm holds no advantage there.

[Telorea]

The Mana is higher than the HP because it's the generic "healer-class" charm. The exact same stats will appear for Druids & Clerics in their charms.

That is exactly my point - 'generic healer-class' items are generically junk for shaman because they are designed to *only* cater towards cleric and druids who have totally different class priorities - shaman needs are always ignored.

This is a consistant itemisation problem, classes get shoe-horned into class-groupings that are totally useless for them.

As a shaman, if I had a choice between a 50hp aug and a 200 mana aug I would choose the HP aug instantly every time - and 95% of other shaman would do the same.

This charm is a shaman item, so it should be designed to cater to shaman needs.

[Ngreth Thergn]

This charm is a shaman item, so it should be designed to cater to shaman needs.

Whether you like it or not, that is not true.

It is a healer item.

[Telorea]

Whether you like it or not, that is not true.

It is a healer item.

That is exactly my point though. It is currently *not* a healer item because it does not cater to all the healer classes - it is a druid/cleric-only item that is mislabeled as a healer item.

If an item is allegedly a 'healer item' then is *must* be designed to cater to all healer classes needs - not just only a certain sub-set of them.

This is not picking on tradeskill item stats in particular, because it is has been a trend in the majority of EQ itemisation to shoe-horn classes into groups and make items that supposedly follow those groups but only cater to a small minority of them. DoDH was probably the worst point where 90% of so called 'priest/caster' rewards were total junk to a significant proportion of the classes.

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For these charms there are different items for each race and class-group, and there are no shaman races that have clerics or druids.

Therefore it is totally possible in this particular case to allow the charm to truely reflect shaman needs and be properly stated, instead of forcing them to use what is really a cleric/druid-only item.

[KyrosKrane]

For these charms there are different items for each race and class-group, and there are no shaman races that have clerics or druids.

Just to address this one point, frogloks are the exception to this rule: they can have both clerics and shamans.

[Zyeil]

Anyone heard anything or know if there is any chance of :

A) this charm will get it's second aug slot changed (from 9 to 8, to be inline with artisan's)
B) that the last two common charm augs (wanderlust and memory shard) will match all the prior to TSS charm augs in the game and be changed to not just 7/8
C) The ac will be increased for the charms usuable by tank classes?

Speaking specifically of the Elegant Charms war/sk/pal can use....

As it is now, it's a high risk/expense combine, which would be ok, since it has nice enough stats. But...

Slipgear/ldon are the "highest" charm augs that will fit into a slot 9. Valthon's Memory Shard and Wanderlust are both 7/8 only, meaning you can use one or the other, but not both. Which largely negates the 2nd aug slot.

And the maxed ac of 30 - it is the same as a maxed (sorta expansion outdated) Artisan Charm (that actually has a useful second slot) compared to the 30ac and nearly double the hp and all the mod2's and 3's of the elegant one.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Anyone heard anything or know if there is any chance of :

A) this charm will get it's second aug slot changed (from 9 to 8, to be inline with artisan's)
B) that the last two common charm augs (wanderlust and memory shard) will match all the prior to TSS charm augs in the game and be changed to not just 7/8
C) The ac will be increased for the charms usuable by tank classes?

A no
B no idea, not my bailywick
C The AC will not be increased.

[Zyeil]

A no
B no idea, not my bailywick
C The AC will not be increased.

Thanks for the response, Ngreth

[Adita]

Do you have to have a full set of Elegant to get the full stats? If not does anyone know the number of pieces needed to max it?

Thanks in advance.

[KyrosKrane]

As of now, I wear seven of eight cultural pieces -- elegant plus sublime. My charm is just a notch below max. So yeah, I'd guess you need a full suit of elegant plus sublime to max it.