Help! Where are the Enchanted Recipes??

[Foxbox]

The recipes are NOT there. They have been removed. That's the entire point.

The enchantment spells are NOT a waste. You cannot make the new JC items with stats unless you enchant the bars first. This is just like the old days.

While I understand the desire to play in the old world, the fact is, the game changes. It is a personal choice to restrict yourself to certain content, but you cannot expect the entire server to adhere to your personal desires. If you decided you want to play without erudites, would that mean that every erudite player on the server should delete their toons? Of course not. The game changes, and you have to adapt to it.

I understand the nostalgia for the old days, I really do. But I also have to ask. If you do tradeskills, will you ignore item stacks and only carry one item per item slot? Because in the old days, items didn't stack. When you buy a stack of food from a vendor, will you buy it one item at a time? Because in the old days, you couldn't shift-click to buy a stack. When your bard goes into combat, will he still type 1-1-2-2-3-3-4-4 during the whole fight? Because /melody wasn't available. Like I said, the game changes, and you have to accept at some point that those changes will make some stuff obsolete.

In the interest of balance for the game, Ngreth made a decision to remove the old JC items. You claim there is no reason. This is patently false; it's to maintain a balance in risk to reward and cost to reward for tradeskills. The old JC items underperformed for the vast majority of people, and most players find the new JC to be a substantial upgrade. You are in an unusual situation, in that you seek to avoid that which is new. This does NOT mean the entire rest of the game should come to a screeching halt in terms of development just so you can relive what you perceive to be your glory days.

Uhh, none of what you said really applies to my question. I'm not asking for anything that would affect other people, but rather, asking why something that negatively affected no one was taken out of the game. So what if they underperformed? Lots of old world things underperform when compared to newer things. You don't see them taking out Kerra Isle because the items there are bad and no one ever visits it, do you?

They weren't overpowered,, so there was no reason to mess with the recipes. It seems they could have easily left the recipes in without affecting anything. People aren't forced to make them, so you could simply make the more powerful items instead of making those.

All I'm saying, is that there is apparently absolutely zero reason to disable the enchanted recipes. Leaving them in would have negatively affected no one. Taking them out does negatively affect people, because there are entire guilds that limit themselves to old content.

If taking one route negatively affects no one, and taking the other route negatively affects people but does not have anymore positives than the other route, then why take the second route?

[Akenta]

I also miss the old recipes since they fit in better with some of my game play. But to be honest, I haven't had a chance to try the new jewel crafting or spell researching to compare (but it's on my list of things). These changes affect my enchanter the most since he if he found a gem he would quickly enchant a bar and try a combine. On the other hand, my characters can stop picking up half pages for him to combine to learn how to make spells.

Overall, Ngreth's changes tend to be for the better of the game (just most of the time not for me) so I'll just pat him on the back and continue figuring out to keep the game fun for myself.

[Gorse]

Uhh, none of what you said really applies to my question. I'm not asking for anything that would affect other people, but rather, asking why something that negatively affected no one was taken out of the game. So what if they underperformed? Lots of old world things underperform when compared to newer things. You don't see them taking out Kerra Isle because the items there are bad and no one ever visits it, do you?

They weren't overpowered,, so there was no reason to mess with the recipes. It seems they could have easily left the recipes in without affecting anything. People aren't forced to make them, so you could simply make the more powerful items instead of making those.

All I'm saying, is that there is apparently absolutely zero reason to disable the enchanted recipes. Leaving them in would have negatively affected no one. Taking them out does negatively affect people, because there are entire guilds that limit themselves to old content.

If taking one route negatively affects no one, and taking the other route negatively affects people but does not have anymore positives than the other route, then why take the second route?

I still don't understand what the whole complaint is about. The old recipes (non-enchanted versions) are still in the game and can still be used as a skill-up route. They left an alternate skill-up route in the game.


So players have received a new skill up route (many more options now), still have old options, and jewelry which has better stats than before. But of course some people just want to complain about everything, so they will always find something to complain about.

Ans just because a decision was made, you are not owed an explaination, at least not in this venue. If you have a problem with SOE, please take it to their board, where it belongs. It just so happens that we have a rep that enjoys the game and as a player shares as much as he can with fellow enthusiasts, but I have not doubt that demanding comments like seen above make him think twice about it.



Gorse

[Foxbox]

I still don't understand what the whole complaint is about. The old recipes (non-enchanted versions) are still in the game and can still be used as a skill-up route. They left an alternate skill-up route in the game.


So players have received a new skill up route (many more options now), still have old options, and jewelry which has better stats than before. But of course some people just want to complain about everything, so they will always find something to complain about.

Ans just because a decision was made, you are not owed an explaination, at least not in this venue. If you have a problem with SOE, please take it to their board, where it belongs. It just so happens that we have a rep that enjoys the game and as a player shares as much as he can with fellow enthusiasts, but I have not doubt that demanding comments like seen above make him think twice about it.



Gorse

I don't think I'm very demanding, though I suppose it may have come off like that, and I'm sorry if it did. I just can't think of any reason to disable the enchanted recipes. I, and a few others, reactivated our accounts just so we could create a guild that plays in the old world, and were looking forward to little things like old stat jewelry. We're not the only guild out there that plays solely in the older expansions, either.

I believe the tradeskills have been going in a good direction, and this new jewelry system looks good. But the new jewelry will trivialize old content for me and others if I create it, so I that is the reason I wish to create the old jewelry.

It doesn't look like leaving the old, enchanted jewelry recipes in would harm anything, so why can't they stick around?

[Aldier]

Ngreth took the opportunity to rework the way jewelry items that provide stats/benefits work. He was able to increase them. Improve them to fit in more slots. As such, the developers (and probably the itemization people more so than Ngreth, but this is just speculation) did not want to keep BOTH sets of stat jewelry.

[Gorse]

My question is why does it make a difference? What are the reasons to keep the old versions?

1. A skill-up route was removed.
A1. The non-enchanted version recipes still work. Skill up route exists.
(So Can't be that).


2. Removed decent HP or stat rings I can use at low levels.
A2a. The new versions, even with the recommended levels yield items better than any of the old versions, even at level 1 (you can make eight 100 HP electrum based items).
A2b. The stats can be up to eight sets of +5 to any or all stats or saves you desire, based on the items used.
(So that can't be it either.)


3. Just want to gripe because something changed and no one asked your permission?
A3. Yes it is sarcasm. Why disable? How about so there is no confusion. How about, it is a great way to force returning players to learn that the system has changed (they fond out the old system does not work and then find the new system with even better items than before). Maybe they just felt like it!

So the questions that begs to be answered, why do people make a big fuss over the removal of a system that has been upgraded and yields superior items for less plat?



Gorse

[Ngreth Thergn]

Of course the enchanting spells still have use, they are still required to make jewelry with stats. NONE of the new stuff makes anything with stats without enchanting. That includes palladium which now also requires enchanting.

[Foxbox]

My question is why does it make a difference? What are the reasons to keep the old versions?

1. A skill-up route was removed.
A1. The non-enchanted version recipes still work. Skill up route exists.
(So Can't be that).


2. Removed decent HP or stat rings I can use at low levels.
A2a. The new versions, even with the recommended levels yield items better than any of the old versions, even at level 1 (you can make eight 100 HP electrum based items).
A2b. The stats can be up to eight sets of +5 to any or all stats or saves you desire, based on the items used.
(So that can't be it either.)


3. Just want to gripe because something changed and no one asked your permission?
A3. Yes it is sarcasm. Why disable? How about so there is no confusion. How about, it is a great way to force returning players to learn that the system has changed (they fond out the old system does not work and then find the new system with even better items than before). Maybe they just felt like it!

So the questions that begs to be answered, why do people make a big fuss over the removal of a system that has been upgraded and yields superior items for less plat?



Gorse

Because it trivializes the older content. I'm playing an Enchanter alt in the old world only for the fun of having a unique challenge, and making the new jewelry would take away a lot of the challenge. I have made plenty of alts that take advantage of the newer items, and it makes the lower level content less fun, because there is very little challenge. There are entire guilds out there who play only in the older content for the unique challenge and fun of it.

Why would there be confusion if they left the old recipes in? Who would honestly get confused by it? There aren't many new people coming to the game, and the new people will most likely not start any major tradeskilling early on anyway. What is so confusing about leaving in a recipe for an older item?

I just can't see a reason that the old recipes were disabled. Just because you can make something stronger is not really a good reason to take something out of the game. Leaving them in would have negatively affected no one.

[Melanippe]

How does the fact that you can STILL enchant "Old World" metals and combine them with "Old World" gems using materials that can be purchased in the "Old World" by merely adding one additional step, to whit: Cutting the "Old World" gem, trivialize "Old World" content? How does it lessen the "challenge" of the "Old World"?

As for disabling the original recipes which produced "stat" jewelry while leaving in the unenchanted versions for skilling up, how does that trivialize the "Old World" content.

As for leaving the original enchanted recipes in the game, to what point? Merely for the nostalgia? There really would be no reason, other than merely nostalgia, to clutter up the game with recipes which no longer are either viable for use in skilling up or, for that matter, viable from a sellers or buyers viewpoint, not to mention overburdening the game with pointless coding.

I have seen the word "Classic" tossed around here and there. "Classic" assuredly has many definitions. "Classic" may be merely Kunark to some while to others "Classic" may include Luclin and Planes of Power, while to others "Classic" may include Secrets of Faydwer. "Classic" usually is perceived to be that which one becomes used to based on ones time of entrance into the environment.

I shall make the presumption that by "Old World" you are making reference to such places as Kunark and Velious. However, East and West Commonlands no longer exist, so I presume you have accepted the "Commonlands" as being "Old World". Oasis no longer exist nor does North Freeport, yet I shall presume you have accepted that South Ro including what was formerly called Oasis as being "Old World" and you have accepted that the "barrier" which formerly delineated North Freeport has vanished and that you continue to accept East and West Freeport sans North Freeport as being "Old World". Kerra Isle no longer exists either by the way. All the Kerrans have move to the Toxxulia Forest, likewise the former inhabitants of Split Paw have taken up residence in South Karana. I shall make the presumption that you have accepted that this is still the "Old World".

I shall also make the presumption that by "unique challenge" of "Old World" content, you enjoy the challenge of sitting behind an open spell book until level 35, that you enjoy the challenge of doing a corpse run with a willing cleric in tow and perhaps a willing necro in tow and running across half the "Old World" sans gear and weapons. That you don't mind that what was formerly known as the E. Commonlands tunnel is no longer a hub of buying and selling, likewise Greater Faydark and that you enjoy not utilizing the Bazaar, the Magus, the Guild Lobby, the Plane of Knowledge portal stones, the extra bank slots, the ability to stack formerly unstackable tradeskill items, etc. etc.

I shall also make the presumption that you are not merely complaining for the sake of complaining. It would appear that you are nostalgic for something which has passed into memory, only natural of course, but it has passed and shall ne'er return. You may wish to deal with that "challenge" as you explore the "Old World".


Oh, one point of information which may be entirely irrelevant is that the version of Everquest for MacIntosh ends at the expansion Planes of Power.

[Foxbox]

How does the fact that you can STILL enchant "Old World" metals and combine them with "Old World" gems using materials that can be purchased in the "Old World" by merely adding one additional step, to whit: Cutting the "Old World" gem, trivialize "Old World" content? How does it lessen the "challenge" of the "Old World"?

As for disabling the original recipes which produced "stat" jewelry while leaving in the unenchanted versions for skilling up, how does that trivialize the "Old World" content.

As for leaving the original enchanted recipes in the game, to what point? Merely for the nostalgia? There really would be no reason, other than merely nostalgia, to clutter up the game with recipes which no longer are either viable for use in skilling up or, for that matter, viable from a sellers or buyers viewpoint, not to mention overburdening the game with pointless coding.

I have seen the word "Classic" tossed around here and there. "Classic" assuredly has many definitions. "Classic" may be merely Kunark to some while to others "Classic" may include Luclin and Planes of Power, while to others "Classic" may include Secrets of Faydwer. "Classic" usually is perceived to be that which one becomes used to based on ones time of entrance into the environment.

I shall make the presumption that by "Old World" you are making reference to such places as Kunark and Velious. However, East and West Commonlands no longer exist, so I presume you have accepted the "Commonlands" as being "Old World". Oasis no longer exist nor does North Freeport, yet I shall presume you have accepted that South Ro including what was formerly called Oasis as being "Old World" and you have accepted that the "barrier" which formerly delineated North Freeport has vanished and that you continue to accept East and West Freeport sans North Freeport as being "Old World". Kerra Isle no longer exists either by the way. All the Kerrans have move to the Toxxulia Forest, likewise the former inhabitants of Split Paw have taken up residence in South Karana. I shall make the presumption that you have accepted that this is still the "Old World".

I shall also make the presumption that by "unique challenge" of "Old World" content, you enjoy the challenge of sitting behind an open spell book until level 35, that you enjoy the challenge of doing a corpse run with a willing cleric in tow and perhaps a willing necro in tow and running across half the "Old World" sans gear and weapons. That you don't mind that what was formerly known as the E. Commonlands tunnel is no longer a hub of buying and selling, likewise Greater Faydark and that you enjoy not utilizing the Bazaar, the Magus, the Guild Lobby, the Plane of Knowledge portal stones, the extra bank slots, the ability to stack formerly unstackable tradeskill items, etc. etc.

I shall also make the presumption that you are not merely complaining for the sake of complaining. It would appear that you are nostalgic for something which has passed into memory, only natural of course, but it has passed and shall ne'er return. You may wish to deal with that "challenge" as you explore the "Old World".


Oh, one point of information which may be entirely irrelevant is that the version of Everquest for MacIntosh ends at the expansion Planes of Power.

It trivializes old content, because how how powerful the new jewelry is. Having +2 mana regen on my rings and such will make things quite a lot easier.

I have accepted all the other things are different (I didn't remember them getting rid of Kerra Isle, haha.) Freeport, Commonlands, Highpass, whatever. Their revamp didn't affect me because all the same mobs still exist. It's a shame that there is no where to sell the loot I can't use, but at the same time, I don't care. I have a group of people doing the same thing I am, so I can just give the loot to them. The extra bank slots/stackable tradeskill items do not really affect combat, so it doesn't make the combat easier, which is what I care about.

I don't get why people are so against the old jewelry. Sure, it's useless to most, but it doesn't harm anything by being there. It does harm some people when it is taken away, though. It's not going to confuse anyone. If you think it's going to confuse new players, well EQ doesn't get new players very often, and I doubt that any new players are going to do tradeskills anytime soon after they start playing.

I'm not someone who complains very often. This is just something that irks me, since I was looking forward to making my own old, enchanted jewelry and upgrading it as I got newer enchantment spells. If I could see a good reason they were disabled, then it might not irk me so much, but I can't see any good reason they were disabled.

[Gorse]

(Long post deleted and changed as it was long winded and mostly derogatory.)

Your choice to like the old system. You really should look into the new system (it's not too complicated) as it provides the player many more options than before from junk jewlery to twink gear (only even better than the old system).

Since you don't like any of the suggestions I made, why don't you post what thought process you think the developers used to make the decision to disable the old system.



Gorse

[KyrosKrane]

As a thought, if you use a silver or electrum setting and the vendor sold gems, you can get stats pretty similar to the old jewelery. It won't be exactly the same, but it's pretty close. For example, an electrum ring with a single Jade in it will give you the INT +2 you asked for earlier.

[Neebat]

I don't get why people are so against the old jewelry. Sure, it's useless to most, but it doesn't harm anything by being there. It does harm some people when it is taken away, though. It's not going to confuse anyone. If you think it's going to confuse new players, well EQ doesn't get new players very often, and I doubt that any new players are going to do tradeskills anytime soon after they start playing.

I was just training two brand new EQ players yesterday who wanted to learn Jewel Craft. They needed to know all kinds of stuff, from how to pick up one item at a time to how to open the tradeskill interface on a bag.

They were regularly getting distracted by the old unenchanted costume jewelery showing up in their searches, and I can only imagine the old enchanted jewelry would make it worse. A WHOLE lot of people would miss out on the benefits of the new jewelry if the old recipes were still around creating confusion.

If you want +2 INT rings, you can still have them. You want additional challenge, you can get it, because that +2 ring requires Electrum now instead of Silver.

You want to cross post to two different forums... that's whining and crying for attention.

There are dozens of ways you can make EQ a more challenging game if you want more challenge. You're picking a way that no longer exists, and that makes your relations with other people on these forums more challenging. And it makes Ngreth's job more challenging because he has to justify himself weekly on why he made a change that's good for the game.

[Kaylya]

If your complaint against the old jewelery being removed is that it's overpowered for your nostaliga quest, go ahead and make a new style Electrum ring and just put a single jade in it - heck, start with silver if you want. There's your 2 int ring. And if you really want, you could build up your jewelery using only dropped gems and slowly make it better.

[Fian]

Easy to make is one other reason to keep the old enchanted recipes in. For a person new to EQ, enchant bar, combine bar + gem is much easier than the multi-step process for the new jewelry. And it is even worse for the buyer, who often has no idea of how to look stuff up in Alla or even how to insert an augment into an item. It can be hard to sell the items in bazaar, because they appear with 0 stats, and most are not aware what is possible with the augment combinations. And what if we have a new progression server? Then we are going to need those old enchanted recipes again. My biggest complaint, though, is when you return to EQ and go back to what you are familiar, and then find out the world has changed. It makes it feel alien, not like an old friend that you are returning to visit.