Porous loam Exq Fluid/Marrow

[Aldier]

Not all mobs are equal. It is an itemization choice the developers make to put things only on certain mobs. Ngreth placed the drops based on the concept he developed for spiders = spinneret fluid, bear/cat/wolf = marrow, golem/gargoyle/construct = loam, humanoid = chance at all 3.

If you go purely by mob types in Crystallos, you would have 0 chance at silk/leather having a tradeskill drop as none of the mobs that fit the classifications exist in that zone. To compensate, he is using the drakes and the wyverns to drop those items.

This is no different however, than having a class specific item drop from a harder raid mob than another. Go back through all the expansions, you will see this same problem. Demiplane... how many pure melees saw 2.5 pages and leather classes saw bp/legs compared to the rest of the classes? Why? Because they came from a harder event.

[Tanise]

I guess it was ngreths ultimate goal to make the plat sellers happy.

Fewer entering world = higher demand = higher prices = more plat sales.

Considering that both the price that they buy plat and sell plat has increased over the past month(10.00 per 100k vs 4.00 1.5 months ago,) bidness must be good.

[shadyn]

It sounds like that once again a perfect group is required.

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Shaman
HIGH DPS
HIGH DPS.

Lots of classes, and you know who you are (paladin <cough>) don't even bother applying. Or go to the other groups and just give up on the loam.

If people are soloing the stuff on the other side of the zone, how about adding some summoning to them. This is supposed to be hard right?

[Aldier]

If people are soloing the stuff on the other side of the zone, how about adding some summoning to them. This is supposed to be hard right?

Have you read the previous posts in this thread? They did nerf Crystallos. They made the wyverns immune to snare. That leaves only the drakes as "kiteable" solo mobs.

[Sigi]

Not all mobs are equal. It is an itemization choice the developers make to put things only on certain mobs. Ngreth placed the drops based on the concept he developed for spiders = spinneret fluid, bear/cat/wolf = marrow, golem/gargoyle/construct = loam, humanoid = chance at all 3.

If you go purely by mob types in Crystallos, you would have 0 chance at silk/leather having a tradeskill drop as none of the mobs that fit the classifications exist in that zone. To compensate, he is using the drakes and the wyverns to drop those items.

This is no different however, than having a class specific item drop from a harder raid mob than another. Go back through all the expansions, you will see this same problem. Demiplane... how many pure melees saw 2.5 pages and leather classes saw bp/legs compared to the rest of the classes? Why? Because they came from a harder event.

What a line of crap.

First of all, if you go by the mobs in Crystallos, the only thing that should be dropping IS POROUS LOAM. From Golems. YAY!

I agree that silks and pelts and marrows and fluids don't belong where they are currently dropping. But if they are willing to compromise the original design of the mobs that drop the TS stuff, then they certainly can change the porous loam to be in line with the others, aka the porous can drop from the wyverns and drakes. Because at this point, it is blatant discrimination to the plate wearers. At the same time, this has really become more difficult than it has to be. Your ramblings are just more lame excuses that have been spoon fed to tradeskillers over the years.

To Simplify:
Sony created a new expansion.
They wanted ts drops on humanoid models.
They had them dropping all over the place.
They nerfed the drop rates.
They realized there are nearly no humanoid models...
Oops!
They compromise the integrity of the expansion by having Fluid and Marrow drop from non-humanoids, but they screw the plate wearers and in turn make the plat farmers incredibly happy.

[Aldier]

What a line of crap.

First of all, if you go by the mobs in Crystallos, the only thing that should be dropping IS POROUS LOAM. From Golems. YAY!

I agree that silks and pelts and marrows and fluids don't belong where they are currently dropping. But if they are willing to compromise the original design of the mobs that drop the TS stuff, then they certainly can change the porous loam to be in line with the others, aka the porous can drop from the wyverns and drakes. Because at this point, it is blatant discrimination to the plate wearers. At the same time, this has really become more difficult than it has to be. Your ramblings are just more lame excuses that have been spoon fed to tradeskillers over the years.

To Simplify:
Sony created a new expansion.
They wanted ts drops on humanoid models.
They had them dropping all over the place.
They nerfed the drop rates.
They realized there are nearly no humanoid models...
Oops!
They compromise the integrity of the expansion by having Fluid and Marrow drop from non-humanoids, but they screw the plate wearers and in turn make the plat farmers incredibly happy.

Your right. SOE is actually backing every single site that sells plat. Since they are losing so many customers they decided to screw over everyone and force them to buy platinum to get money from them. Its all one big conspiracy. That is the "line of crap" you are saying.

Humanoids STILL DROP all 3 types. Check Tier 3 SoF zones. Minos, Gnomes, and Brownies in Steam Factory.... The drops were entering the world faster than the developers wanted. They nerfed them. Like it or not, that is their choice. Your claim is that Ngreth purposely chose golems in Crystallos to drop loams because they are harder mobs in some attempt to force plate/chain classes to buy from plat sellers? Or is it that you think that leather/silk players should not be able to get drops for TS from tier 4 zone? The humanoids were even adjusted to drop loams MORE often, but the Crystallos mobs are not humanoids. No one has presented any evidence to the contrary that humanoids in appropriate zones are not dropping loams.

[Sigi]

Your right. SOE is actually backing every single site that sells plat. Since they are losing so many customers they decided to screw over everyone and force them to buy platinum to get money from them. Its all one big conspiracy. That is the "line of crap" you are saying.

Humanoids STILL DROP all 3 types. Check Tier 3 SoF zones. Minos, Gnomes, and Brownies in Steam Factory.... The drops were entering the world faster than the developers wanted. They nerfed them. Like it or not, that is their choice. Your claim is that Ngreth purposely chose golems in Crystallos to drop loams because they are harder mobs in some attempt to force plate/chain classes to buy from plat sellers? Or is it that you think that leather/silk players should not be able to get drops for TS from tier 4 zone? The humanoids were even adjusted to drop loams MORE often, but the Crystallos mobs are not humanoids. No one has presented any evidence to the contrary that humanoids in appropriate zones are not dropping loams.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I didn't claim that the golems were placed in Crystallos to drop loams because they are harder mobs... blah blah blah. I said that they should drop from golems in Crystallos. Open your eyes.

It is that if the devs are willing to throw fluid and marrow on random non-humanoid mobs to better the drop rate, then they need to do the exact same thing for porous loams. There you go making things more difficult than they have to be again.

(People HAVE presented proof that the rate of loam vs fluid and marrow is incredibly skewed. Read some of the boards)

[Bara]

Take a deep breath......

The real world is not perfect; and EQ is not perfect. NOW GET OVER IT!

It is nice to see that you care about this issue, but compared to some of the past tradeskill issues (only Wood Elf and Karana worshipers having a viable skill path to 300 before PoR for example) that Negreth has worked hard to fix; in my opinion (and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.) who, what and where this loam drops from and in what quantity it drops is much ado about nothing. Anyone who works hard enough can get it. Everyone has access to it with enough sweat. If you are not willing to sweat; I'm not going to listen. I'm too busy trying to level/gear up to get into Crystallos myself.

[Sigi]

Take a deep breath......

The real world is not perfect; and EQ is not perfect. NOW GET OVER IT!

Anyone who works hard enough can get it. Everyone has access to it with enough sweat. If you are not willing to sweat; I'm not going to listen. I'm too busy trying to level/gear up to get into Crystallos myself.

We are all working VERY hard to get drops. I take great offense that you assume me, my guildmates, and the folks on all the servers that are trying VERY HARD to get these drops are not working hard enough. There is an actual issue here, which is really the whole point of this; when you get 6 fluids, 4 marrows and No Loams..... well then... maybe an issue that needs attention? Last I knew, devs didn't know that things needed fixing unless threads like this were written....

Again, for the umpteenth time in this issue, this thread, and the porous loam threads all over the internet, things are made more difficult than necessary.

It is broken. Please fix it.

[Sigi]

[QUOTE=Bara;217239]Take a deep breath......

Double post, my apologies

[Aldier]

It is that if the devs are willing to throw fluid and marrow on random non-humanoid mobs to better the drop rate, then they need to do the exact same thing for porous loams. There you go making things more difficult than they have to be again.

(People HAVE presented proof that the rate of loam vs fluid and marrow is incredibly skewed. Read some of the boards)

First, the only reason Ngreth added fluids and marrows to the drakes and wyverns, respectively, is because if he did not, there would be 0, none, nada, zilch, dropping in Crystallos, a zone they (the developers) said is where these will come from. Golems exist there so there is no need to add loams to additional mobs.

I read a lot of the forums and have yet to see any post that shows that loam:marrow:fluid ratios are out of balance, again this is only on humanoids.

This is an issue I tried to bring up in some of the discussions on these forums when people were complaining about the imbalance initially, that if people only kill a certain type of mob, then there will be an imbalance in the number of fluids/marrows/loams dropping. At the time, people were getting these from humanoid mobs in Fort Mech and other zones that are not Tier 3/4.

The point I was trying to make is that not all mobs are equal, so if people selectively kill only certain mobs, they will only see select drops. If people do not kill the golems that are there, they will not see the loam drops and because they choose to not fight the golems, is the reason they are not seeing loams, not because they are not on the mobs of appropriate level/type enough.

[KyrosKrane]

I'm just going to interject a quick note here. EQTC isn't the place to petition for or demand changes; the Sony boards are the best place to do that. Although Ngreth does read and reply to (most) posts here, I'd like to remind everyone to re-read the rules, in particular numbers 1 and 10. EQTC is a place to discuss tradeskill issues with fellow tradeskillers. If a dev (including Ngreth) happens to jump in and contribute to the conversation, that's a bonus. However, demanding a dev response or a change in the game won't get very far here. Proposing an alternative solution to the problem will probably get you closer to your goal, but again, you should only expect a reply from fellow players.

[Aldier]

I believe most would agree that the rate loams are entering the game is low.

1. Are people killing the right mobs?

2. Are the right mobs not dropping the loam frequently enough?

3. Are the ones dropping being making it to the bazaar? (alternatives being kept for personal use/rotting/destroyed)

These are the questions that are being answered. Any no will reduce the rate that the average tradeskiller will see them for now and will keep the bazaar prices high.

I think the answer to 1 and 3 are no but that the answer to 2 is yes. Unfortunately, the solutions to 1 and 3 are dependent on the player base and only question 2 is controlled by developers.

[Totemic]

The problem with the question "Are people killing the right mobs?" is that it assumes all the mobs are equal in all aspects. They really aren't in Crystallos and that's really the issue here.

While overall, based on the total population of drakes, wyverns and golems in Crystallo, the potential drop rate for all three components may be equal, the reality is simply this:

1. Golems are harder to deal with than drakes or wyverns. I know for a fact that my guild's mages can solo drakes/wyverns. He won't even try touching a golem. That is not to imply that I want things nerfed or that I want things changed so golems are soloable. It's merely to illustrate the difference in relative difficulty between the two sets of mobs.

2. Golems are just not as accessible as drakes and wyverns. The way the current zone is designed, it's designed to discourage people from camping in the middle of a hallway or tunnel. This is due to the "zone sweeper" concept that Nodyin introduced into Crystallos. The eyeballs are DESIGNED to be avoided rather than killed. And of course, where do most of the golems spawn? In the hallways and tunnels.

This results in a double whammy of sorts limiting the rate at which loams enter the game world. Even groups capable and willing to kill golems may just not find as many golems to kill as drakes or wyverns.

The solution suggested isn't to tune down the golems, or even increase the drop rate overall. The solution suggested is to change the drop so every drake/wyvern/golem have an equal chance to drop a loam/fluid/marrow while at the same time keeping the overall drop rate of those ultra-rare components the same.

I don't see how this is in anyways unfair or unreasonable of a request. It would be essentially the same thing as just marking everything in Crystallos as a "humanoid" type mob without actually doing so (since "humanoid" has a unique meaning where certain abilities are concerned).

[Aldier]

The problem with the question "Are people killing the right mobs?" is that it assumes all the mobs are equal in all aspects. They really aren't in Crystallos and that's really the issue here.

While overall, based on the total population of drakes, wyverns and golems in Crystallo, the potential drop rate for all three components may be equal, the reality is simply this:

1. Golems are harder to deal with than drakes or wyverns. I know for a fact that my guild's mages can solo drakes/wyverns. He won't even try touching a golem. That is not to imply that I want things nerfed or that I want things changed so golems are soloable. It's merely to illustrate the difference in relative difficulty between the two sets of mobs.

2. Golems are just not as accessible as drakes and wyverns. The way the current zone is designed, it's designed to discourage people from camping in the middle of a hallway or tunnel. This is due to the "zone sweeper" concept that Nodyin introduced into Crystallos. The eyeballs are DESIGNED to be avoided rather than killed. And of course, where do most of the golems spawn? In the hallways and tunnels.

This results in a double whammy of sorts limiting the rate at which loams enter the game world. Even groups capable and willing to kill golems may just not find as many golems to kill as drakes or wyverns.

The solution suggested isn't to tune down the golems, or even increase the drop rate overall. The solution suggested is to change the drop so every drake/wyvern/golem have an equal chance to drop a loam/fluid/marrow while at the same time keeping the overall drop rate of those ultra-rare components the same.

I don't see how this is in anyways unfair or unreasonable of a request. It would be essentially the same thing as just marking everything in Crystallos as a "humanoid" type mob without actually doing so (since "humanoid" has a unique meaning where certain abilities are concerned).

What I mean by that question is are people hunting in the correct zones, at mobs of the correct levels, and mobs that have the potential to drop the parts. (You would not hunt the horses in Takish-Hiz for meat, they don't drop it, you need to go to Elddarr or ToB for the meat) I think that the suggestion to make drakes/wyverns "humanoid" instead of the drakes dropping fluids and the wyverns dropping marrows exclusively.