Incoming Nerf to Elegant and Last Blood?

[filobeto]

Well, to be fair, the Alkalai Loam and Flawless Spinneret fluid were dropping a month before the expansion launched, so people had time to stock up. I know I had 40ish on a mule before the expansion even launched.

I had close to 200 total, most of which I bought via a buyer ~100pp each prior to launch. Still had numerous amounts sold to my buyer for that amount a couple of days afterwards, but it wasn't long after that the prices changed and I stopped buying. I had more than I thought I would ever need, but now I'm down to 19....

[filobeto]

My main concern is that many people destroyed their old armor to make room for the new cultural armor. If the cultural gets nerfed, they'll have to scramble to win the armor that they destroyed all over again, just to get back to where they were before the expansion came out.

I have deleted a few items for this reason, oh, and because I don't have the room in my bank to keep them....curses the bags and bags of patterns and molds.

[Chatoyan]

As one of the few players this change will benefit (generally poorly-geared non-raider from a very small, family guild), I still think this is a horrible idea.

As to the availability drops for exalted augs, I had enough stockpiled for over 100 combines before SoF went live, and I hadn't even bothered with a /buyer - those were just items that I found for under 100pp when I happened to be in the bazaar. Limited play time meant that I wasn't going to get to make the augs any time soon, so I traded the lot to someone in return for several sets of augs for my characters. Last time I checked, that player had nearly 50 exalted augs for sale.

[Maevenniia]

other thread closed, reposting here:

Before people start flying of the handle, lets wait and see what the numbers will look like. The changes may not be as severe as you all fear.

I do hope that the Seals will not be decreased too much, so that Last Bloods will still be desireable RAID loot, as Last Bloods may be one of the stronger motivating factors for the mid-tiers to raid Demi at all...if they are nerfed to worthlessness then there will be that much less incentive to raid Demi.

[Bobaten]

I have deleted a few items for this reason, oh, and because I don't have the room in my bank to keep them....curses the bags and bags of patterns and molds.

Shadowrest corpsebanking is safer than the delete button

[Roanne]

other thread closed, reposting here:

Before people start flying of the handle, lets wait and see what the numbers will look like. The changes may not be as severe as you all fear.

I do hope that the Seals will not be decreased too much, so that Last Bloods will still be desireable RAID loot, as Last Bloods may be one of the stronger motivating factors for the mid-tiers to raid Demi at all...if they are nerfed to worthlessness then there will be that much less incentive to raid Demi.

I'm all for that as long as the specifics are announced soon.

SoE has basically thrown the entire system into uncertainty and no one knows what these pieces are worth anymore. I don't want to spend my DKP on a Last Blood now with the possibility I may have been better off saving for a better upgrade after the Last Blood is nerfed.

[Twistagain]

I'm all for that as long as the specifics are announced soon.

SoE has basically thrown the entire system into uncertainty and no one knows what these pieces are worth anymore. I don't want to spend my DKP on a Last Blood now with the possibility I may have been better off saving for a better upgrade after the Last Blood is nerfed.

Yeah, I'm starting to make the Elegant armor now (sold my first piece last night.) I've got a piece for 500k (like everyone else except 1 person selling for 300k...which is less than the rare component costs.) I advertised it and that I was making it on order.

That's when a mid-tier raider starting /oocing to beware of the Elegant because it's being nerfed. I tried to explain exactly what was supposed to be changing so that people could make up their own minds (as the armor is already a huge upgrade for me, and will be better post-"nerf",) but he kept insisting that the only market for the armor was mid-tier raiders.

So, at the moment, I have 1 piece sold, 1 piece on trader, and enough money for 2 more attempts. I'm trying to get enough money so that I can afford to make the stuff for ME!

[Woland]

Can someone please try to give me an example of New Cultural armor item that will be worse than a piece of armor you destroyed before this adjustment. If you follow the reasoning suggested in statement by Ngreth I do not see such possibility. Closest I can come is if someone looted TSS mold and made TSS armor and then destroyed that and replaced with 70 armor + 75 Symbol + LB. Though we do not know exact changes to Seals it is hard to imagine that raw HP/Mana will be much less and Cultural armor would still likely have better AC and Mod2s.

Please show me under what reasonable circumstances you think you will find yourself in situation to petition for destroyed gear.

[Eggborn]

All I hope is that I am not a paper tank again. GoD really sucked for me. I worked hard since 2001 on this character maxing my tradeskills, participating in a raiding guild, farming components, etc.

Over a year later, the equipment I have will be less than it was. My guild is working, but not doing as well as it has in the past. It's bad enough to go backwards cause I can't move forward. I am frustrated and regret wearing my several pieces of tradeskilled items. It cost my dkp to get those last bloods that I can never get back. I could have bid on so many other things had I known.

I again, just hope I can still tank the content that I can now as well. I don't want to be paper again!!!

P.S. I REALLY HATE MATCHING THINGS. How boring and orderly of you.

[gggrant]

Can someone please try to give me an example of New Cultural armor item that will be worse than a piece of armor you destroyed before this adjustment. If you follow the reasoning suggested in statement by Ngreth I do not see such possibility. Closest I can come is if someone looted TSS mold and made TSS armor and then destroyed that and replaced with 70 armor + 75 Symbol + LB. Though we do not know exact changes to Seals it is hard to imagine that raw HP/Mana will be much less and Cultural armor would still likely have better AC and Mod2s.

Please show me under what reasonable circumstances you think you will find yourself in situation to petition for destroyed gear.

We don't have the information to actually tell one way or another. It is almost guaranteed that no matter what SOE does, someone will get hurt.

Here is the situation as I see it (hopefully without much drama).

1. SOE created some new tradeskilled armor/symbols that in conjuction with old raid seals (primarily Last Bloods), provided armor with Hitpoints and Mana greater than later expansion's raid drops. SOE's reasoning on this is that the later expansion's raid drops have foci that were better so the armor in question was not as powerful as it appeared on the surface. The entire problem with SOE's stance at this time is that the value place on foci is subjective (I will return to this point later).

2. When the new tradeskilled armor entered Beta everyone was supprised. It was indeed questioned, repeatedly. SOE maintained their stance and most of the objections voiced were of the, "It is way to powerful" nature without any numbers to back it up.

3. If the armor is indeed too powerful, this is a design failure and should have never been created in the form it is now. If the armor is indeed to powerful, the Beta Testers who voiced the opinion that it was too powerful should have made a proper case with supporting examples of why it was too powerful. They didn't or at least didn't publish their objections AND supporting arguments on the Beta boards for open debate. If this debate (which it didn't) had occurred on the Beta boards and changes made prior to launch, these changes would have been and "adjustment".

4. The armor goes live without adjustments. It was again questioned and again SOE maintained their position that since the foci of the Last Blood Seals was so outdated the armor was not overpowered. At this point in time any changes would be a "nerf". This is when the real debate started. If the armor is indeed too powerful, it is SOE's fault for designing it that way AND the Beta Testers fault for not ensuring the situation was corrected. (And yes, I was one of those Beta Testers.)

5. The high-end raiders present their case after the armor goes live. Essentially their case revolve around Hitpoints (and by extension Mana and AC) totally ignoring foci. Based on the way they present their case, foci has no importance at all and they would not have any objection to a level 1 warrior in the Tutorial running around with Cleave VIII. This of course isn't true and the people that were originally proposing the nerf meant no such thing. Their point was that the degraded foci was of minor significance in relationship to the Hitpoint gain. This is another subjective evaluation (I will return again to this). The so called mid-tier and low-tier raiders, line up behind SOE's postion. A firestorm erupts in the Nerf Threads on the SOE boards.

6. SOE reevaluates their position and announce the proposed nerf. SOE essentially subjectively reevaluated their subjective assessment of the value of degraded foci. (I really should figure out how to get more subjectives into that sentence.) Anti-Nerf Threads are started on the SOE boards.

The current situation: We are in a lose-lose scenario with no way out. Whether there is a nerf or not, nobody will win. No matter what SOE does, it will only satisfy a small minority of the players, most will feel injured. Any SOE representative that sticks his head in to give information or correct any misinformation will promptly get it bitten off by someone (they had best prepare themselves now for this). Eventually they will learn, and NOT put in any appearance at all. "Tension" is high right now between the high-end guilds and the guild they get their replacements from as it is largely based on subjective opinion. This will only get worse. Best case is that it will blow over before the next Beta.


That is my take on it. Feel free to flame me.

[lallafiz]

Let me preface this by saying i wear a complete set of elegant/sublime...

While i agree that this armor set is overpowered with last blood seals, i disagree with the way the intended correction is being planned.

Last bloods should be left alone and elegent/sublime should be altered if any change is going to be made.
1) Last bloods are raid drops and people spent their DKP for those drops.
2)Last bloods are tier 4 in a 7 tier progression.
3) Last bloods have been in-game through several expansions.

Any changes should be made to elegant/sublime by..
1)removing AC from the elegant piece
2)removing HP/Mana/End from the symbol
3)AC/HP/Mana/End should be added to type 12 seals for tiers 5 through 7 so that elegant/sublime/faycite is the same as it is currently, through a nice and steady progression.... the way its should have been done from the begining. Why no AC was added to tier 5 though 7 seals and was just dumpped on the elegant piece was nothing but taking a short cut.

[Ukruk]

Altho I highly dislike the concept of a nerf to the new sublime/elegant pieces at all, I am in agreement with the previous two posts. You touch those last bloods and I will leave the game. I have almost a full set of last bloods, have for going on two years now. I idea that soe would try to fix this [I]problem[I], that is solely of their own creation, by nerfing last bloods/and or bazus has to be the most stupid, absurd thing ive ever heard from soe.

For those people who arent familiar with the process of making last bloods let me tell you, its a very long and involved process, and even making a single one can take up very considerable time and expense. The idea that soe would nerf these items after SOOO MANY people have spent so much time and money in order to acquire them specifically for their stats, is just absurd to me. Why should all those people be penalized for soe's mistake.

And you know when I finally made my first piece of elegant with sublime and last blood augged up I thought to myself ****, maybe soe did something right for a change; they actually made raid quality armor for the small guy that doesnt raid or doesnt have the time to raid, way to go soe for recognizing how this would help smaller guilds and those who have no taste for raiding every day to get some decent gear. O how wrong I was.

[gggrant]

Let me preface this by saying i wear a complete set of elegant/sublime...

While i agree that this armor set is overpowered with last blood seals, i disagree with the way the intended correction is being planned.

Last bloods should be left alone and elegent/sublime should be altered if any change is going to be made.
1) Last bloods are raid drops and people spent their DKP for those drops.
2)Last bloods are tier 4 in a 7 tier progression.
3) Last bloods have been in-game through several expansions.

Any changes should be made to elegant/sublime by..
1)removing AC from the elegant piece
2)removing HP/Mana/End from the symbol
3)AC/HP/Mana/End should be added to type 12 seals for tiers 5 through 7 so that elegant/sublime/faycite is the same as it is currently, through a nice and steady progression.... the way its should have been done from the begining. Why no AC was added to tier 5 though 7 seals and was just dumpped on the elegant piece was nothing but taking a short cut.

The only problem with this is that it does not take everyone who might be wearing this armor into account. Non-raiders wearing the just the armor and symbol would suffer a horrendous nerf if your suggestion was followed.

The simple fact is that this is a really complex problem with no good solution. Most solutions proposed center on just one aspect of the problem while ignoring others.

[maxpower]

Last bloods are having stats moved to armor, fine. i can deal with that. How is this going to effect the AAAA? Id like to see if last bloods drop then the cost/time/etc in making a AAAA drop as well as a minor compensation for this. Reducing the AAAA would make it more affordable to more people and maybe more last bloods will be made and people can still be somewhat happy with the proposed change(i know i would make more bazu stones for my bst then)

[Bobaten]

The problem with the AC not changing on the Elegant from Elaborate is it would then be very weak on AC compared to the group level armor. Even with the Hit points and AC it has, it is still not as good as the Tier 3 group armor that it is supposed to be equivalent to.. even if you include a type 12 DoN aug on the Elegant and don't include a power source on the Tier 3.
One solution would be to add easily obtainable type 12 augments intended to be used by group geared people. And by easily, I mean as easily obtainable as the ones on the DoN vendors. So for example, if you want to take 30 ac and 50 hps off of Elegant/Sublime, then you would need a type 12 augment on a vendor with 30 ac/90 hp (to replace the 40 hp DoN augment that could be there now).
But really, the Dev proposed solution is better.
1. The end result is the same (people using last bloods with elegant/sublime lose the same stats in either scenario).
2. Tradeskillers get to sell a finished product to group geared players rather than requiring them to make an additional purchase.
3. The type 12 group aug required to maintain balance would be better than Chronal..and pretty close to Discordant level.