Superb silks in katta

[Roanne]

Will that be just a pure class count by armor type or a class/race count by armor? The result varies depending which way you do it.

16 classes - assumes standard distribution by class
(31%) plate = 5 classes. bard, cleric, paladin, shadow knight, warrior
(25%) chain = 4 classes. berserker, ranger, rogue, shaman
(19%) leather = 3 classes. beastlord, druid, monk
(25%) silk = 4 classes. enchanter, magician, necromancer, wizard

112 class/race combinations - assumes standard distribution of all playable class/race combinations
(41%) plate = 46 possible combinations. 5 bard, 9 cleric, 9 paladin, 9 shadow knight, 14 warrior
(24%) chain = 27 possible combinations. 5 berserker, 5 ranger, 11 rogue, 6 shaman
(12%) leather = 13 possible combinations. 5 beastlord, 5 druid, 3 monk
(23%) silk = 26 possible combinations. 6 enchanter, 6 magician, 7 necromancer, 7 wizard

This is just to emphasize how prolific plate wearers really are. I think this fact has often been glazed over in the design process and I appreciate youre willingness to consider it.

Either way you look at it, plate wearers clearly out number every other armor type. When you factor that plate and chain share the same drop, smithing should have from 56% to as much as 65% of the loam/marrow/spinneret fluid table if the intent is standard distribution by type.

Hope this helps you save some time later.

[Anterouk]

Just to add what I have been experiencing whilst hunting in TBS killing goblins(humanoid) - been ending up with similar levels of superb silk/hides which are about 3x the level of ore drops. These are over multiple 2-3 hours sessions. It is a similar pattern with the spinnaret/loam/marrow, generally getting 1-2 marrow/spinnarets but had 1 loam drops in 4 sessions. Definitely think an adjustment needs to be made so that a balanced drops rate for all 4 types of armour can be reached.

I would say that for the template(skill up path) it should be twice as much silk as the rest, as more is used, however for the lvl drops it should be 2 silk/1 skin/2 ore with a ratio of 1 spinnaret/1 marrow/2 loam(I think only 1 of these drops is required for each armour)?

Although given the possibility of expending the new smithing and tailoring options in the future using the currently unused templates it may be worthwhile amending the drops rate for all of the new drops now?

[Abazagaroth]

Don't understand why there would ever be a question about how many drops there should be.

9 classes need loam, 4 classes need spinneret fluid, 3 classes need marrow.

56.25% of armor/symbol making drops should be loam
24% should be spinneret fluid
19.75% should be marrow

For the template material, its pretty much irrelevant for making the armor due to how common it is, the issue is just skill up on templates.

Its only for two skills, tailoring and smithing, need 2 silks per skill up.

50% of template drops should be ore
16.67% should be hides
33.33% should be silks

Anything else makes absolutely ZERO sense.

[Deviator]

just because 9/16th of classes need loam, doesnt mean that 9/16th of the population needs loam. in fact, it is probably alot more than that being that there are tons of plate class toons out there(at least on emarr there are). if you are looking for "making sense" then you have to break each server down by population:class and tune the drops accordinly which is too time consuming and will never happen. the next best thing is 2/1/2 drop rate.

[Bobaten]

2/1/2 (40%,20%,40%) is an even split between smithing and tailoring template parts(100 drops you would have on averge 40 smithing and 40 tailoring combines). If you went with 50%, 16.67%, 33.33%, you would have more smithing combines drop per kill than tailoring (average for 100 drops would be 50 smithing yet only 33.33 tailoring combines).

[Elyssanda]

Don't understand why there would ever be a question about how many drops there should be.

9 classes need loam, 4 classes need spinneret fluid, 3 classes need marrow.

56.25% of armor/symbol making drops should be loam
24% should be spinneret fluid
19.75% should be marrow

For the template material, its pretty much irrelevant for making the armor due to how common it is, the issue is just skill up on templates.

Its only for two skills, tailoring and smithing, need 2 silks per skill up.

50% of template drops should be ore
16.67% should be hides
33.33% should be silks

Anything else makes absolutely ZERO sense.

Except that you didn't take into account the Symbols. A tailor can use both the marrow/skin combination for making symbols as well as the silk/fluid.

And symbols can be made for ANY religion, so they can be made for anyone & everyone in game.

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

Except that you didn't take into account the Symbols. A tailor can use both the marrow/skin combination for making symbols as well as the silk/fluid.

And symbols can be made for ANY religion, so they can be made for anyone & everyone in game.

Then there are the tinkers.... They use ore/loam for symbols.

Hehe obviously there are a lot of factors for poor Ngreth to take into account, WHEN he has the time.

[Abazagaroth]

2/1/2 (40%,20%,40%) is an even split between smithing and tailoring template parts(100 drops you would have on averge 40 smithing and 40 tailoring combines). If you went with 50%, 16.67%, 33.33%, you would have more smithing combines drop per kill than tailoring (average for 100 drops would be 50 smithing yet only 33.33 tailoring combines).

Bah, yeah, I was having a brain fart there. I stand by the loam/marrow/fluid %s though.

If people choose not to play classes, that's a consequence of a ton of factors. But making loam drops the same amount of marrow when there are 3 times as many classes that use the loam for armor than marrow makes no sense.

Even if you add it symbols as "equally likely" made via smithing/tailoring, that just means you go from 9/16 loam 1/4 fluid (4/16) 3/16 marrow to:

9/16 + 1/2 = 17/32% = 53.125%

1/4 + 1/4 = 1/4% = 25%

3/16 + 1/4 = 7/32% = 21.875%

So should still be a lot more loam out there than there is.

[Aldier]

Bah, yeah, I was having a brain fart there. I stand by the loam/marrow/fluid %s though.

If people choose not to play classes, that's a consequence of a ton of factors. But making loam drops the same amount of marrow when there are 3 times as many classes that use the loam for armor than marrow makes no sense.

...

So should still be a lot more loam out there than there is.

While your math makes some sense in that HUMANOIDS should drop more ore, that does not mean there should be a difference in the amounts in the open markets for loam. If people are killing spiders and animals and not golems, there will be more silks. If the only thing that could drop this was humanoids, then this would be true.

This would be like going to a raid mob and killing it expecting it to drop loot that is on a different mob's table. The rate at which things enter the game depends on what is being killed, and who is willing to take it to the open market. There would be an increase in the drop rate, but not necessarily the availability.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Well.. there are two tables.

The ore/leather/silk table that makes the template/skillup stuff

the loam/marrow/spinneret table that makes the armor/symbol

the template stuff I am likely to change to "skillup" tables which is 2 1 2. They are so much more common than the other drops that I see no "shortage" even at those levels. You just may see less metal sold to NPC vendors as "waste" than others. (which in the end makes metal cheaper because more goes to full profit, less to waste with profit loss)

the loam marrow spinneret I am likely to change to one of the two "who needs what" tables.

[Aldier]

Well.. there are two tables.

The ore/leather/silk table that makes the template/skillup stuff

the loam/marrow/spinneret table that makes the armor/symbol

the template stuff I am likely to change to "skillup" tables which is 2 1 2. They are so much more common than the other drops that I see no "shortage" even at those levels. You just may see less metal sold to NPC vendors as "waste" than others. (which in the end makes metal cheaper because more goes to full profit, less to waste with profit loss)

the loam marrow spinneret I am likely to change to one of the two "who needs what" tables.

These changes are just to the drop rate of humanoid mobs, correct?

[Ngreth Thergn]

These changes are just to the drop rate of humanoid mobs, correct?

correct.

others only drop one type. they *may* get some increased drop rate... but not sure there yet.

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

You just may see less metal sold to NPC vendors as "waste" than others. (which in the end makes metal cheaper because more goes to full profit, less to waste with profit loss

Uh... by less metal sold to vendors do you mean fewer templates? Because none of the drops in question are vendor sellable at present. Or is your boss changing his mind about that?? (hope, hope!)

[Ngreth Thergn]

Uh... by less metal sold to vendors do you mean fewer templates? Because none of the drops in question are vendor sellable at present. Or is your boss changing his mind about that?? (hope, hope!)

Yes I meant templates.

[Gaell Stormracer]

Yes I meant templates.

That isn't really working at the moment: generally, all I see on vendors are the 1-drop pieces (wrist, hands). This is probably a consequence of being able to experiment-learn the higher difficulty 1-piece combines, which generally works out to be much more efficient than farming 2-3 times as much of the lesser, even though the vendor-bought component (thread, cord, coal) needed is a little more expensive. In a player-driven market as has been created, you aren't generally going to be able to buy 3 or even 2 of a lower tier ore for the price of 1 of the next one up.