What do you think fellow tradeskillers?

[Flehmen]

From a RP standpoint, I could see this also being a Shammy skill. Herbs and ingredients can be as deadly as they are useful. A shammy would have knowledge of both.

Hmm, let's talk about this thought... how about:

From a RP standpoint, I could see Alchemy also being a rogue skill. Herbs and poisonous material can be as curative as they are deadly when applied right. A rogue would have to have knowledge of both to be the best at making poisons. I mean, think about cancer, we cure it with toxic poisons.

Not picking on you, Chakua, particularly, just easiest to point out the argument with your quote. I would like to see a closer alignment between rogues and shammys though, not a dependance on each other, but make it a little more interesting for em. They do sorta have a market cornered with inlays and marks eh?

The arguement for apply poison is interesting though... Assuming that rogue DPS doesn't come hugely from poisons(ie they help but aren't the complete basis and I simply don't know never having played a rogue over 50 yet) the a warrior with a cap of apply poison 1 would be a neat thing. Little bit of extra damage and a good market for rogues. I can't see any other class getting it though, Pallies and rangers wouldn't sully their swords, SKs would scoff at it as "base" and not a power of death, Zerkers are busy controlling their rage to mess much with their weapons, Bards? Maybe, they are always going on about DPS but it also fits the jack of all trades image....

To sum up, a quest for Warriors (maybe bards) to get apply poison(1) might be a neat idea. Making Shammies and rogues more aligned might be good but I don't want to see any one tradeskill completely dependant on another.

Ten.

[Chakua]

Very true. However, a shammy or medicine man would typically be concerned for the greater good whereas a rogue is typically concerned with himself and causing mischief. A rogue may have the knowledge to create antidotes or potions to cure himself as he may not be welcome in normal society. A shaman is typically revered whereas a rogue is despised. Someone may purchase poisons from a rogue but I doubt they would accept a potion or distillate in fear of getting tricked into using something that may make it easier for a rogue to incapacitate him.

Shamans would probably make poisons to help his fellow man have an advantage over his enemies. A rogue would create them to make his life a little easier and give him the upper hand in a fight.

As for the augs, shammies and rogues do have the market cornered. Unfortunately, the augs are getting less and less desired as each month passes. I can't recall the last time I made an aug for sale, gifting or by request.

[Flehmen]

I see rogues a little differently... more like indiana Jones... a roguely gentleman. Some may be hated and hate, but I think mostly they are self-interested. It would be in my rogue self-interest to keep the group alive and he would already have the knowledge. All the more mobs to pick-pocket and backstab.

Rogues are not evil, per se. Unfortunately we tend to see things in black and white. I would also say that shammen are not good, per se.

[DJPhil]

Ok, so you want to make poison . . .

To address the topic at hand before I ramble, I'm in the 'don't dilute class/race identitiy' camp. We're smearing across a good deal as it is. The recent hullabaloo on my class boards has underlined for me lately just how far the game has come from class assigned roles in groups. I consider that balance delicate, and though I don't see tradeskills the same way I do feel that it would cast a shadow across the accomplishments of those who worked hard as an alchemist, researcher, gnome, or rogue.

As a rogue I feel I should throw in a few things. This is where the rambling starts.

Rogue posion, as it stands right now, is generally agreed to be of very little use. Some rogues use it extensively and tout it's benefits, but the vast majority either never use it or never even bothered developing the skill. I was enamored with it myself, and even went through the trouble of buying WA5 (proc increasing aa) at level 55 to put them to better use. By the time I was ready to consider spending AA on Virulent Venom (poison specific proc increasing aa) it seemed like a silly thing to do. It's one of those things that a good rogue can make interesting use of in the 50-70 game, but once you hit 70 and a few aa you tend to be in places where it's resisted more often than not.

Poison's main strength at the moment is it's utility, though it's a weak strength. The most commonly used poisons across the 70 rogue population are used for their ability to snare, slow, debuff a stat, or lower the rogue's hate. Many rogues will simply aquire weapons that proc slow or snare as opposed to dealing with the expense, hassle, and bag space of working with poison, and the weapon effects that exist are in many cases comparable or better than the poisons they'd replace (see serrated bone dirk). For those without such weapons, poison can be the difference between soloing that level 55 kunark mob for your illusion mask and waiting until you're tough enough to take his 4 closest friends on too.

As for damage, it's widely accepted that poison adds very little dps, especially relative to it's cost. Again, it seems the younger you are the more useful it can be. Yet even in a class where the mentality is to do everything possible to maximize damage many will still not use poisons, primarily due to those afforementioned resist rates. A resist does no damage and increases hate, which is reason enough not to use poison when it might just land a few times. Our ornate pants clicky poison of infamy, for example, is a 75dd with an interrupt stun, and is known for causing notable issues with hate when it does land. Perhaps the warriors would like that one.

There's a poison revamp on the way eventually, and I'm looking forward to it. I think poison has the potential to help the rogue class out with some difficult issues if it can be made worthwhile to use in groups and on raids as more than an afterthougt.

The whole reason for the rambling summarized:

* Those who want access to poison, be careful what you wish for. Or better yet, what do you have to offer? You are dealing with rogues after all. :P

* My ramble might help those who read the last several posts and noticed a general apathy regarding what happens to poison making. It's really sad for me to see that some seem to think, "It's in such bad shape, so who cares, give it away!"

[Eclapton]

" The game has changed and adjusted as the years have passed. I've heard people bitch about the boats being gone. I'm so glad they are.. "

I always thought that the ships were removed because of the semi-cheat of practicing spell and weapons and rogue skills. We used to be able to just stand there and after targeting the boat, pick its pocket, beg, taunt, practice an un-maxed wpn skill or whatever you wanted without any sort of retaliation from the boat. Many Ppl would use that all the time, especially rogues with pick pocket which is required for their 1.0 epic, and where most groups didnt appreciate it if the rogue picked out the blue diamonds or whatnot while they were still fighting and left less loot for the group.

I saw groups of ppl just blast away on the boats in order to 'sink' them and since they dont respawn, it required a zone reset to get them back. Back in the day ppl considered it a challenge to destroy something that most ppl found useful.
This kind of reminds me of the fantasy wizard character Raistlin where he destroyed the anti-magic wizard guild magic practice room as his graduation project from his academy instead of creating a new fancy shmancy spell or something. Since he didnt need to practice as a student anymore because he was graduating, it was worthless to him and he saw it as a challenge to destroy something that the other students would need.

[Lillanu]

Tinkering, no.
Alchemy, no.
Poisonmaking, eh...who cares?

Now Forage...I don't think it would be all that unbalancing if everyone was given a bit of foraging skill. Come on, how difficult is it really to look around at the ground and say "oh look, a root/berry/piece of rabbit meat yummy"

Those are ground spawns! But if everyone got a little bit of foraging, it should probably cap at 25-50.

[Ddemons Ddemise]

id prefer a cap around 75-100 .. at least for those who have it innate ability..
50 for those who dont already i suppose, but at 50 you RARELY ever get anything, and then you dont get anything good .. (i spent an hour in PoJustice and got.. nothing..i think once in a 2 hour stretch or so doing trials i got one of the fruits.. but thats about the limit to my foraging ability)