Chronal and Discordant Stones

[tnexus]

Ngreth any chance you can tell us if the Chronal and missing Discordants will be coming from one group encounters or raid encounters? More specifically, will it coming from one of the everyday missions offered in DoDH?

[mithridate]

Heck, thanks just for replying, prompt or otherwise. Quickness is just icing! I don't think I can belabor the point enough: communication can dampen, and maybe even eradicate some of the justified discontent the community feels from time to time.

And, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy... Bad, bad, bad tnexus! No addressing the SOE staff!

[Ngreth Thergn]

I think the Discordant is a raid, On that is Qivic difficulty, but that one was implemented it DoD and frankly I forget

The Chronal is an "event" so not necessarily a raid but something that either takes a group with Anguish level equipment and tons of AA's or 3-4 groups with about Elemental level gear and AA's

There tends to be less scripting to an event than there is a raid. Sometimes an event is just a very tough monster with some helpers. (which is why some very high geared folks can get away with it)

[Lemeril]

Ngreth you seem to be a bit confused. The discordant was found in a raid level the basis of what you have stated. As I said "Found".

So are the chronal stones going to take as much effort as the Discordant? If so isn't that wrong? I mean what is the point then?

Also, why are all casual players eliminated from any primary slot gear upgrades if the Chronal's are raid only? I truly expected these to be one groupable by say a group of 70's in DoN GM Gear and around 300 aa's. That seemed to be the fair realistic line here so that the casual players had the ability to obtain Chronals (only 55 hp/mana/end) while Discordant stones were the lower end of the raid ones since they fall into the raid level you already mentioned. Actually, exactly what you mentioned is what is listed on multiple sites regarding the Discordant stone. The raid for the Discordant stone can be one grouped by Anguish gear with aa's or multi-grouped by qvic/elemental geared.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Slot 12 are intended to be raid level items.

[Lemeril]

I will only make one more comment on it then. If slot 12 is meant to be raid level why are there almost a dozen slot 12 augs don purchasable? Decent ones also.

I do feel it is sad that Sony completely left out an entire group of players when upgrading cultural but from what I have seen to date I should have expected nothing less.

I guess personally I will just hope the raids are capable of being done by open raids I can form.

Also, if the raids are the same level as the current discordant then there isn't much purpose to having a chronal stone in game.

Okay, said my peace. I won't comment on it further. I just don't understand Sony's perspective on it and probably never will on something like this.

[KyrosKrane]

If slot 12 is meant to be raid level why are there almost a dozen slot 12 augs don purchasable?

I'm pretty sure Ngreth meant the DoDH type 12 augs, not earlier ones. Omens had a whole line of type 12 augs (Kyanites, Celestines, etc., plus the various flowstones), and DoN has a number of crystal-purchased augs that fit in type 12 slots. These are all accessible to anyone (in that they're tradable or purchased).

The main problem I see with DoDH (and this is a player problem, not a dev problem) is that no one is raiding lower-level content. The top raiding guilds blasted their way into Dreadspire and the Demi-plane of Blood; guilds at a tier below them are still banging away at Anguish, Tacvi, and similar, and lower level guilds are still focused on Time or GoD progression. No one seems to have a really good handle on what to raid in DoDH. This is kind of surprising, to be honest. If DoDH raid drops are on a par with group and mission drops, the loot should be close to Tacvi quality for maybe Time/Qvic level difficulty.

[greenwood_d]

Just a note on costings on the AAAA - 400k is a ripoff.

100k and even 75k have popped up on Nameless.

I posted on another form that the base cost of an AAAA runs about 19k. (also gave estimates for the cost of the subcombines)

That accounts for all the items you vendor buy and excludes the rediculous pricing in bazaar on two items not commonly dropped - the Shadowmane Pelt and Clockwork Gnome Bolts (20k and 2k just not worth it).

Needless to say 20k even if you buy a lot of the common clockwork items is a fair assessment of the cost of one AAAA. The time put in is another story - call it a joke. so watever you think a tinker doing 5 351 combines n a 252 and taking 2-3 minimum to get everything add that to the 20k but be fair - this combine sucks imo - on my 15th atm LOL.

[Ngreth Thergn]

What happened is.

The plan was always to have slot 12 be raid only

But

They ran out of time to add them.

And the community wanted something in those slots NOW.

So... they CHANGED a few of the older augments, and the ones in DoN to fit in slot 12 to satisfy the community.

When they added the slot 12 that they wanted... they are achieved in raids like they always planned.

The basics is... Raid level stuff needs a raid, or at least a "Large Event" (the Chronal is on a "Large Event") in order to achieve it.

That said, there is a middle ground I may be able to work with in the future.

The current target for easy to make items is what a single group can also get hunting (but may still be rarer than tradeskills can make, and tradeskills possibly do it at least slightly easier)

When I get the time to make long tradeskill quests, that take the amount of work shawls did... there is the middle ground between raid and group content where tradeskill items can fit.

[Lemeril]

Ngreth here is where I become lost and maybe you or you can get another dev to help explain this.

Look at DOD Grouipable content. Now, the 68's are about par with Cultural, but do a 69 hard (which I did with groups that were higher end "casual" players where little if any raid gear on some of them) and you find they are 200 hp/mana/end. This = what was formerly raid gear and far surpasses anything else available to casual gamers. Then the 70 normals give even nicer gear with 200 hp/mana/end.

this is why I expected Chronal's to be groupable. Just trying to understand why sony would make higher raid gear for DoD, increase the casual in non-cultural slots for DOD, then make nothing for those slots for casual. It really doesn't make sense, but maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.

Basically from what I have seen groupable stuff in DoD = time or better. Raid stuff in DoD = Qvic/Anguish level. But on the way of the primary slots (i.e. bp/greaves/wrists/hands) there are no upgrades for the casual side that I have seen other than the 20 hp/mana/end augs that go anywhere and still leave a large difference between the level 70 DOD missions in the sense of rings, face, etc... and the primary slots.

[Wyvernwill]

To be honest, the Chronal stones make nothing any better than Time gear, at best. They add no ac, only 55hps or so, which when you factor in that, plus other augments, it makes the armor not all that much better than Time, but not as good as Qvic either. Discordant Stones do push it to Qvic level in terms of effects and stats.

For the most part, they are nice, they do add some avoidance and shielding effects which are also rather good too.

[KyrosKrane]

Ngreth, let me give you one example of why people think Chronal stones should drop from one-group missions.

Chest drop from first Jazarrad mission (for level 70 spells) on hard:
Illsalin Enforcer Helmet
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: HEAD
AC: 56
STR: +10 DEX: +12 STA: +9 CHA: +10 WIS: +13 INT: +13
HP: +215 MANA: +210 ENDUR: +210
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +11 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +10
Required level of 70.
WT: 6.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8

Plane of Time drop from Vallon Zek:
Helm of Flowing Time
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: HEAD
AC: 57
STR: +20 STA: +20 CHA: +8 WIS: +18 INT: +18 AGI: +18
HP: +185 MANA: +160 ENDUR: +160
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15
Attack: +20 Haste: +40%
Required level of 65.
WT: 5.0 Size: TINY
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8

Tradeskilled human GM helm with Erollisi augment and DoN crystal-bought augment:
Grandmaster's Stalwart Helm
MAGIC ITEM ATTUNEABLE
Slot: HEAD
AC: 59
STR: +23 DEX: +16 STA: +23 CHA: +16 WIS: +22 INT: +22 AGI: +20
HP: +170 MANA: +170 ENDUR: +170
SV FIRE: +9 SV DISEASE: +9 SV COLD: +9 SV MAGIC: +9 SV POISON: +9
Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +2
Recommended level of 69. Required level of 70.
WT: 3.0 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: HUM
Slot 1, Type 7
Slot 2, Type 11: Grandmaster's Helm Symbol of Devotion
Slot 3, Type 12: Sparkling Ametrine Gemstone

Now, the GM helm and the Time helm are close, although the Time helm is still better. You could put a Tourmaline from DoN into the GM type 12 slot, and lose 5 to stats and 35 hp/mana/end. in trade for mana regen +3 and an effect like haste or improved dodge. However, both are still a goodly step below a single group drop from a DoDH mission.

Now, compare the GM armor with a Chronal stone instead (I picked one arbitrarily):
Grandmaster's Stalwart Helm
MAGIC ITEM ATTUNEABLE
Slot: HEAD
AC: 59
STR: +18 DEX: +11 STA: +18 CHA: +11 WIS: +17 INT: +17 AGI: +15
HP: +190 MANA: +190 ENDUR: +190
SV FIRE: +14 SV DISEASE: +14 SV COLD: +14 SV MAGIC: +14 SV POISON: +14
Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +2 Spell Shield: +1% Avoidance: +5 Stun Resist: +1%
Focus: Preservation of Mithaniel
Recommended level of 69. Required level of 65.
WT: 3.0 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL SHD BRD
Race: HUM
Slot 1, Type 7
Slot 2, Type 11: Grandmaster's Helm Symbol of Devotion
Slot 3, Type 12: Chronal Seal of Favorable Breezes

I would happily take this helm over the single-group drop listed above, yet it's only a little bit better. This is about where a tradeskill-made item should lie in the overall scheme of things

This isn't even the most extreme example. Check out some of the BP's that can drop from single group missions. They have comparable AC to tradeskilled BP's (a bit lower, I think) and hp over 200.

At the last Fan Faire, I spoke with Absor and Maddoc about the philosophy of tradeskills. We seemed to agree that the best gear a person could acquire without a raid (that is, tradable or one-group items) should come from tradeskills. Raid items should be head and shoulders above that.

On this basis, it would make sense to have Chronal stones drop from DoDH hard missions.

[Phantron]

The single group DoD content is already ridiculously in favor of reward. Nothing is remotely balanced compared to them.

[Kaaba]

I'd have to agree on that. When I can two box my druid as the main healer and get her a 200+ hp/mana item in an hour or two that's a bit out of whack in terms of risk/reward compared to other expansions.

[KyrosKrane]

It's true that DoDH isn't balanced compared to past expansions, but the devs have posted a few times that this is intentional. Basically, the difference between the raider and non-raider had gotten too big with past expansions. DoDH single group stuff was intentionally made much better than single group stuff from past expansions. I'd use DoDH as a baseline to evaluate future content.