Top 10 Update - June 2005

[Neebat]

I would like to see the existing top-ten list items edited / revised to clarify exactly what we're still trying to get fixed. Some of them have gotten partial fixes which make them confusing as written now. (PoP drops and bag tokens for two examples.)

1) How about making GoD and PoP spells researchable? That would be very very very nice. Yes those drops can be much harder to get, but preferably easier to get than the spells themselves, or what's the point?

I fully support this notion. All dropped spells for all classes should have a research alternative. I think it should be specificly included in item #10 as a possible solution. I'm selfish. I've leveled my research to over 200 with geerlok without training at a GM, and I still can't get Spirit of Eagle for my ranger.

What do prettier/different bag graphics have to do with tradeskilling?
Yesh, I know necros are gaga over new pet models so... (I want my undead horse!)

I was underwhelmed by this suggestion myself when I first saw it, then I thought about how much time is wasted rummaging through 16 identical trader's satchels. This is about organization. It would be the ultimate in simplicity for Sony to copy the existing Trader's Satchel item, change the icon and name. The result might be named "Deposit Box" and come in a rainbow of colors. Since it's not a trader's satchel, it wouldn't work for presenting items on a trader. By making this a MORE crippled version of the existing trader's satchel, it eliminates any possibility of it breaking the game balance.

Having said that, the bag item in our top-ten list is mainly still listed because we want STATS on the tokens for tailored items. Sony is having a problem with this because a lot of code needs to change to give bag-type stats to a non-bag. They could avoid this if each token were made into a consumable, (potion-like device) with a spell effect which summons the appropriate bag. This allows the Content Designers to add the descriptions (as spell descriptions) without having to involve coders.

[Nolrog]

Questions about the list:

Are the following still issues?? Could one be removed in favor of something else (such as the improved skill mod on the trophies?)

I haven't seen anything posted about this recently. Is it still a bottle neck in the quest?

8) Balancing the Grand Robe / Grand Tunic / Phylactery quest for melees Currently being discussed
Maddoc said he would look at adding an alternate reward for melees who wish to do this quest, since they cannot use the Grand Robe/Tunic. Discussions included either adding a new reward for melees or making the Token of Service tradable.

This is probably something that's very easy to do, and again one of the easiest things to do which will get done before any of the others.

8A) Ghoul of Takish-Iz broken, very frustrating!

This is very much related so I have combined it in the same item. - The Ghoul is an insanely rare spawn, and almost impossible for a non-tracker to catch without using tools-that-shall-not-be-mentioned. In addition, even when he does spawn and is caught, his drop is way too rare.

"I have killed the Ghoul of Takish-Iz more than 30 times in the last 2 months - he is supposed to drop the last piece I need for the phylactery quest - the spiritual anchor. I know for a fact as recently as late April/early May he was still dropping the anchor. By all accounts the Anchor is a 1/4 to 1/5 drop so the odds of me not getting one in 30 kills are bordering on impossible .... in an ongoing discussion on EQtraders, if you factor in two other player's experiences in the last month we have killed the Ghoul 41 times with 0 drops. The amount of time I have spent on this quest now vastly exceeds the amount of time it took me to get my epic or do anything else ever in this game - hundreds of hours, at least a hundred just on the ghoul..... somethin' ain't right about that."

Did the change in the tempers and metal required render the following issue moot?

9) Excessively low drop rates for PoP temper components Currently being discussed
Given the quality of OoW tradeskill armors and drops, PoP armors have essentially become obsolete, or standby items until you can get the "good" stuff from OoW. The balancing of plate vs. chain was a superb step that will help revive the PoP plate market. The follow-up to this is a significant increase in drop rates, not just for temper components, but for all the items for PoP tradeskills. If PoP tradeskill items are to remain reasonably competitive in the OoW era (and yes, I know some folks will argue that they don't have to stay competitive), they must be much cheaper than they currently are, and this can only happen if supply increases. This means that drop rates must increase, and by a huge margin. A single raid on a mini-boss named in the elemental planes should yield enough supplies for at least one PoP tradeskill item -- note that this implies multiple attempts, given current fail rates. An elemental god raid should see enough drops for 2-3 finished items.

New information, Added 2/4/05:
Well they decreased the number of tempers and ammount of metal needed. Great. Now unfortunately less people seem to be in PoP so for those of us lesser mortals without EP flags its just as hard to get this stuf made as before. Although Magnetic did alot of damage to this market anyway, some drop rate increase still should help here.

[Sharrien]

Well, for the PoP armors, I'm not really sure. Reason is because I've been hording supplies for whenever we find our what combines using rare materials will give us this increased chance for a skill up. Can't say I've spent a whole lot of time farming in EPs lately either.

Are a lot of melees really interested in the Phylactery quest? There are many other paths to getting a comparable non-raid chest piece, like the new cultural armors, which would not require a very lengthy quest. Personally I would much rather see our request for increased mods on the trophies on the top ten than either of these others, but drop the Phylactery thing first.

[filobeto]

Both of these are already there (research one is there for the most part. Not 100% identical to what you posted, but covered pretty well non the less.) Check number 10.

Why yes they are, I'm sorry I missed it. Just please include all of us:

Fletching past 282 // Researchers are in bad shape, it would be a great step in the right direction to add the ability to research PoP and GoD spells (since the level increase to 70). You could research level 60 spells at level 65, so why not the spells up to 65 now. I'd also ask for OoW spells to be researchable but that's probably asking too much // Tailors post 252 // And something for those crazy Shaman!

I can honestly do without the colored bags, even with their advantages. I've had generally the same stuff (by skill) in each bag for awhile now. I already use different types of bags for the items stored in them: Trader Satchels, Handmade Backpacks, Haversacks, Sewing Kits, etc. - they all have different graphics and I know what each bag holds (I don't use the auto bank function). I guess what I am saying is there are other alternatives to this problem without giving up bankslots.

Thank you for your response!

[YurienStonebow]

just the ones i would like to see added and/or changed:

mass combines for nofail
super trophy
poison skill up store bought 170-200
tool belt for dairy spoon/file/needle/etc.....onyl items that are always returned
mass combines similiar to DoN armor attempts for silk swatches, sheet metal, bits, etc....


sure i will think of more

[Neebat]

Recommended Form: Add XYZ in place of #k

just the ones i would like to see added and/or changed:

mass combines for nofail
super trophy
poison skill up store bought 170-200
tool belt for dairy spoon/file/needle/etc.....onyl items that are always returned
mass combines similiar to DoN armor attempts for silk swatches, sheet metal, bits, etc....

sure i will think of more

I've posted suggestions and additions and when I did nothing happened. I don't want that to happen to you. It looks like Nolrog is only changing the list in response to a particular type of request, after several people make a similar request. If you specificly list what you want REMOVED and what should be added in its place, then folks will come out in favor or opposed.

For instance, it would obviously be massively cool to have tinkered spiders gnomes can ride. If there's enough sentiment that tinkered mounts are more important than Velium conversions, he would change the list. (In fact, putting tinkered mounts on this list is pointless for the same reasons JCM is and more. Sony won't do it. Velium conversions will probably eventually happen if we keep bugging them.)

If you think 10% trophies are important, that's cool, but which of these items would you drop to make space?

[Oona Wynterbreeze]

If you think 10% trophies are important, that's cool, but which of these items would you drop to make space?

#6 At least in reference to the expanding to other classes since everything I've read comes across as SOE saying "JCM is for chanters and is going to stay for chanters, drop it." At least that's the vibe I'm getting from them. If somethings going to be removed from a list it would make sence that it would be something that for all intents and purposes seem to be a mute point that's going to be falling on ears that have said they won't listen versus something that could still get implemented.

[Nolrog]

poison skill up store bought 170-200

You can do poison store bought all the way to 275. Spirit of Sloth is your friend.

I've posted suggestions and additions and when I did nothing happened. I don't want that to happen to you. It looks like Nolrog is only changing the list in response to a particular type of request, after several people make a similar request. If you specificly list what you want REMOVED and what should be added in its place, then folks will come out in favor or opposed.

For instance, it would obviously be massively cool to have tinkered spiders gnomes can ride. If there's enough sentiment that tinkered mounts are more important than Velium conversions, he would change the list. (In fact, putting tinkered mounts on this list is pointless for the same reasons JCM is and more. Sony won't do it. Velium conversions will probably eventually happen if we keep bugging them.)

If you think 10% trophies are important, that's cool, but which of these items would you drop to make space?

Thanks for the comment. It's difficult for me to determine what everyone wants based on just one comment. Some people may feel strongly that you get tinkered spiders only gnomes can ride (I'm going to use that one in the future) while others think that colored bags are the way to go. If there is no real consensus on what to add AND what to remove, it's either up to me to decide (and in a lot of cases, I don't feel I should be doing that) or I just leave the list as is. When we start to have people saying, add this and remove that, and several others say the same, it's easier for me to make a change, because I feel that there is a broader level of support. That's why I specifically asked what you would like see, and also what would you remove to place it there.

[Neebat]

#6 At least in reference to the expanding to other classes since everything I've read comes across as SOE saying "JCM is for chanters and is going to stay for chanters, drop it." At least that's the vibe I'm getting from them. If somethings going to be removed from a list it would make sence that it would be something that for all intents and purposes seem to be a mute point that's going to be falling on ears that have said they won't listen versus something that could still get implemented.

Cool.

Now, I just want to check... if #6 is dropped, which would you rather see in it's place?
a) 10% super-trophies
b) batch combines
c) space-saving tools

For me, B and C are a close contest, with batch combines slightly ahead. Super-trophies aren't on my radar because I'm a gimp. (<260 highest skill)

Did the change in the tempers and metal required render the following issue moot? (issue 9)

I'd like to propose combining 7 and 9, both about overly rare tradeskill components. This would de-emphasis 9 which is no longer important and use the free space to ask for ways to save space. Like so:

7. Tradeskill components are unreasonably rare
7a. OoW drops - including Lightning Cores, Slugworms, etc. (Do we have a specific list to ask for?)
7b. DoN drops - all those cultural thingies are just TOO rare.
7c. PoP drops - temper components

9. Reduce the amount of storage we need for tools, for instance:
*) A super-expensive geerlok that modifies ALL trade skills
*) Add common tools to the key chain the first time they're used
*) Advanced collapsed containers (Summon the expanded tradeskill container filled with a set of tools for the trade)

[YurienStonebow]

Neebat,

i jsut added my suggestions so everyone can see what i was thinking aobu8t and see if they wanted to agree or disagree. i jsut wanted to put more ideas out there even if some have been said befoe.

Nolrog,

thnx for the SoS suggestion but being at skill 173 i was trying to find something a little closer to my current skill. the first one i saw was like 220s.


as for what i would remove would be the jcm for everyone and the dyed bags. both are dull and pointless arguments for me but that's jsu my 2 cp worth

[Neebat]

as for what i would remove would be the jcm for everyone and the dyed bags. both are dull and pointless arguments for me but that's jsu my 2 cp worth

This is the reason I think our existing list items need some clarifications.

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EDIT: The remainder of this post is completely wrong. I overlooked item #5, perhaps making my point through my own blindness. I agree with Yurien. Next month, let's merge the dyed bags item into the other bags item and ask for something important.
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We don't have a "dyed bags" item on the top-ten list.

We have a top-ten item about bags, which originally had a variety of sub-topics, most of which are now fixed. There are more important issues than dyed bags still to be fixed...

A) Token stats - The tokens for bazaar-selling of weight reducing and tradeskill containers are a mystery to anyone looking at the items in bazaar. Unless you know the stats of the item in advance, you won't know what to look for. Sony has indicated they would like to add the stats to the tokens, but it is non-trivial. (I posted a suggestion above on how they can make it fairly simple.)

B) Missing tokens - We need a current list. Are there tokens for the new cultural sewing kits?

We're lumping those important issues together with the "dyed bags" request. Since we're getting all 3 requests in one line item, I don't see a problem with it, but if the token stats were done, I'd be with you. By itself, a variety of bags in my bank isn't a top-ten item.

[Nolrog]

Cool.

I'd like to propose combining 7 and 9, both about overly rare tradeskill components. This would de-emphasis 9 which is no longer important and use the free space to ask for ways to save space. Like so:

7. Tradeskill components are unreasonably rare
7a. OoW drops - including Lightning Cores, Slugworms, etc. (Do we have a specific list to ask for?)
7b. DoN drops - all those cultural thingies are just TOO rare.
7c. PoP drops - temper components

9. Reduce the amount of storage we need for tools, for instance:
*) A super-expensive geerlok that modifies ALL trade skills
*) Add common tools to the key chain the first time they're used
*) Advanced collapsed containers (Summon the expanded tradeskill container filled with a set of tools for the trade)

I like that idea. I like it a lot. Makes #7 more focussed, and adds another. Very good idea.

If no objections, I will make this change.

Currently, I have the mass combines in as number 6. That seems to be the one requested most often right now.

[filobeto]

Currently, I have the mass combines in as number 6. That seems to be the one requested most often right now.

General Mass Combine *or* NoFail Mass Combine?

Oh, and you could add to it a place to put the mass combined supplies? /hint stacks to 200 =) (Sure, I could produce 1000 CEs faster with a mass combine, but with still nowhere to put them - other than a fourth mule - it only saves a little time).

[YurienStonebow]

General Mass Combine *or* NoFail Mass Combine?

Oh, and you could add to it a place to put the mass combined supplies? /hint stacks to 200 =) (Sure, I could produce 1000 CEs faster with a mass combine, but with still nowhere to put them - other than a fourth mule - it only saves a little time).

we ahve a few mass combine recipes already. i think the fail/nofail shouldn't be brought into it. if we can mass combine anything we ahve then elts jsut ask for that and as a subnote request nofail or extremely trivial combines be massable

[Nolrog]

General Mass Combine *or* NoFail Mass Combine?

Oh, and you could add to it a place to put the mass combined supplies? /hint stacks to 200 =) (Sure, I could produce 1000 CEs faster with a mass combine, but with still nowhere to put them - other than a fourth mule - it only saves a little time).

Significantly trivial, or no fail.

Here's what I wrote (should look familiar, since I took most of the text from here):

6) Mass Combines With One Click
Allow mass (bulk) combines (say 5 or 10 at a time) for trivial combines (perhaps restricted based on how trivial, 100 points trivial, 200 points trivial, no-fail only.) Enchanters (and other classes) can already mass enchant/mass imbue 5 at a time. When restricted to very trivial/no fail combines, it's not terribly different.

Here's what I have for number 9 now (I combined the issues about the rare drops together in number 7 (think it's number 7)).

9) Reduce the amount of storage necessary

Suggestions for tradeskill tools:

1) A super-expensive geerlok that modifies ALL trade skills

2) Add common tools to the key chain the first time they're used

C) Advanced collapsed containers (Summon the expanded tradeskill container filled with a set of tools for the trade)

Bank space for all the DoN patterns.

Cultural patterns and molds from DoN take up a tremendous amount of bank space. Suggestions to reduce the space neccessary:

1) Give us a token that can be turned in to a specific NPC who will give you back the token (minus one charge) and a stack of the patterns and molds.

2) Double the size of the banks.

C) Increase the stack size of the patterns from 20 to 100.

Maybe that should be increse the stack size for items with the tradeskill tag from 20 to 100.