Veteran Reward 2 and tradeskilling

[Maevenniia]

One of the changes they have released quietly is the ability to actually make a combine fail a lot, even if it has only 100 trivial. This is akin to a mob only dropping something valuable rarely, even though it's green.
.

Where the heck do you get this from? As far as I know they have implemented no such thing, post a link to a direct Dev quote or refrain from posting unsubstantiated statements such as this, it's like setting a match to a pile of oil soaked rags - bound to cause a flamefest!

[Neebat]

Where the heck do you get this from? As far as I know they have implemented no such thing, post a link to a direct Dev quote or refrain from posting unsubstantiated statements such as this, it's like setting a match to a pile of oil soaked rags - bound to cause a flamefest!

Sorry, Maevenniia. I've edited my previous post to be more speculative on it, since I haven't seen anything definitive. Regardless, I don't like being flamed, so I hope I never post on this topic again.

[Wyvernwill]

Good catch Mitsune, I couldn't remember if it was 275 or 279, only reason I knew at all was because I rogue friend of mine wanted a cheap, easy way to raise poison making so I dug up vendorable means for her.

They're trying to make the new recipes a bit more favorable by making them higher level for the purpose of skilling up. The old recipes with ridiculous high levels hampered this badly.

That really makes no sense to be honest. That is, unless you are factoring in the upcoming, not yet released changes to tradeskills also, ie, Min Chance to skill %. The reason, as the way tradeskills are currently, that your comment makes no sense is that the new recipes are not a favorable skill path because a majority of them require fairly uncommon drops from mobs that a good number of classes might not be able to solo. When a mob takes about 2-4 minutes to kill, and only has about a 1 in 5 chance of dropping what you need, you start racking up a LOT of time farming.

Now, it was also brought up that they are trying to encourage tradeskillers to group for their items, however the master's level stuff drops in zones too low for a lot of higher level people to even fathom getting a group together for (or too high level for lower end people) ie ssra, plane of nightmare etc

Most people do not want to sit around aimlessly for hours on end trying to get a friend tradeskill stuff. Thus why tradeskillers general vendor mine, solo, and bazaar for combines. Thus why mostly purchasable combines become far far more attractive of an option than stuff that needs hours of farming.

Once the minimum chance code went in... I would be almost certain that the expensive combines might have given partway to the combines that actually yeilded a good % chance at skilling up. I guess we will see when the next patch for tradeskills hits.

[Bumkus]

The problem is, that is not a bug. It comes down to responsibility. They did not want to have people skilling up on those combines, then they should have taken the responsibility to ensure that it was done as such before anyone could do it. That does not constitute a bud, it is a change that they had not implemented. If it was a bug, they would be banning people for using those combines to skill up. They have been rather strict on exploits and bugs, and since they have deemed the skill up paths as neither other than not what we intended, that does not make them a bug.

Personally, I couldn't care less than I do about the fact that tailoring was changed because in the end, it just prompted me to do a faster, easier route based on my character's race. In the end, the change was a bonus to me. But the down side is that I know that a lot of races ended up with harder paths than the one I did and unlike before where tradeskilling was on a semi level footing, being that everyone could do velious leathers, now race has a huge X factor in how fast you can skill up in a particular skill.

The problem with the tailoring side, and why so many people get irritated by it, is that the other two promised changes are still no where on the radar. Tradeskills are a low priority part of this game, that's been something known for a long time, but I don't believe that it's right that every other skill still has it's easy, buyable means while tailoring is the only one without that.

As for one among equals Bumkus... there's always edges somewhere between tradeskillers, some get insanely lucky for long periods on the RNG, some have maxed out stats because they raid and get that kind of gear. Infusion does nothing but level that playing field, except for those whom don't own DoN. Bare in mind, that with smithing combines, I was able to get my str over 430 and sat in PoK and did trades, and refreshed the buffs as needed. Infusion only puts me at 360 without buffs and lasts a lot shorter.

As for the Guildhalls and Vet Rewards being unfair. I think they are perfectly fair. Why shouldn't a company give some sort of bonus to those who've supported them longer than others? Why shouldn't there be perks involved with an expansion... but then again, there always has been perks involved. Is it right for someone to have been upset that a person who bought LoY for the Maps got ingame maps, while someone who didn't buy LoY didn't get the maps?

Veteran Rewards were given to players at no addition expansion costs, something that, to my knowledge has never happened and it's something I am happy they finally did for the player base. I am surprised anyone would grumble at all considering the first reward is double exp.

Wyvernmill,
Don't get me wrong, I am always looking for and edge to better improve my abilities, Tradeskill or otherwise. However, I look for those advantages to come from within the game environment, not be introduced from the outside. The example you point out (Raiders have better equipment and therefore and therefore advantages) is really inline with my view of the game, because those benefits come from in-game decisions and from an overall style of play.

As for being one among equals, I feel that Tradeskilling is a a largely private mission, made for personal reasons (which even I dont really understand.) It boils down to one person clicking that combine button like a bajillion times. A non-tradeskiller may not be able to understand why I would flush so much plat down the terlet on Tailoring, but another tradeskiller sure does. Makes it easier to share in someone's success when you appreciate the magnitude of the accomplishment.

We all have different resources to apply to our game time. I can leave my computer on 24/7 to work the bazaar, but I do not raid and have never been Guilded. I dont want people who cannot cannot work the bazaar to be handed items and plat randomly to reproduce by my play experience. Nor do I want to be randomly handed Uber gear just because someone else is able to play high end content that I am not ready for.

So no, I do not think this game if fair, nor do I want it to be. I do not feel others should be given the advantages I have worked so hard to build. Nor do I feel I deserve to given a piece of something that someone else worked so hard for.

I understand that it is in Sony's rights to reward players however they want. Should they choose, it would be in their rights to, say, sell in game items to those people who decide to support their company through an on-line store. Doesn't mean I would like it if they did that. Doesn't even mean I would quit if they did. Just means I wouldnt like it.

[Obina]

Can I please make a detour back to Veteran reward 2?

As Ngreth has calculated, this is a small benefit to tradeskillers, but a benefit. But it is unintended, so Tanker is (kindly in my view) warning us now that it will be removed. I thank him for the message but urge a re think.

Changing this is silly for a few reasons. Firstly, so what if a tradeskiller gets a benefit from VR2. Veteran rewards are rewards for all. Secondly, the game is so complicated that there will always be something unexpected. As long as it is small - and doesn't make it less fun for the playing public, move on. I truly believe the guy that designed the hot tub was not thinking of imbueing emeralds when it was created. But we all do it there now. This is unintended, but fine. It is a small thing. It helps me feel good about my DoN expansion. There are countless things we do that I'm convinced were not planned - but most make the game better - or give us the little pleasure of being in control.

Next is the non tradeskill result if this were changed. This positive buff would fade in the Guild Hall. It seems to me that the intent of the guild hall is to allow buff to be ready before a raid, and a player with buff to be able to hold them without camping. Very helpful. I hang out there a lot so I can chat and mess with my bank while buffed. So making this one fade works against that intent.

Do fix tailoring to 300. But also throw us a bone on this one.

[mewkus]

They're not taking away the benefit the veteran rewards give tradeskillers, but rather changing it so that it doesn't last forever while in the guildhall. We'll still get the stat boost and that will still give us the better chance at skill ups, it will just only last for 15 mins per day (or however long it is).

[Neebat]

Next is the non tradeskill result if this were changed. This positive buff would fade in the Guild Hall. It seems to me that the intent of the guild hall is to allow buff to be ready before a raid, and a player with buff to be able to hold them without camping. Very helpful. I hang out there a lot so I can chat and mess with my bank while buffed. So making this one fade works against that intent.

This is a very real issue. I bought DoN partly on the basis of the ability to "pause the game" by zoning into the guild hall. If this ability is wasted because I have to step away, then part of the value of the guild hall is lost.

Could we instead just suspend the benefit while in the guild hall, but still pause the timer?

[hyphnos]

All buffs are equal but some are more equal than others

After reading through this thread, I noticed a couple of things that seemed to be overlooked:

1. All stats being maxxed or win/int/alt stat being maxxed is all the same for tradeskilling purposes. Max agility and magic resistance don't get you to 300 any faster..

2. All other buff timers don't run in guild hall, as was intended by design

3. Maxxing stats with gear/buffs other than VR2 in guild hall is really not difficult (esp maxxing them to the point of no gain for tradeskills)

One thing that isn't clear to me as I don't have VR on a lower lvl character is whether it brings stats to lvl 70 max or the max for your lvl/AAs. I am assuming your personal max in which case this buff just basically allows you to hit the same stat you'd get normally by bumming buffs from guildies.

It seems absurd to me that SOE would go out of their way to change a VR benefit in guild hall because it doesnt tick down when:

1. It *IS* a buff and buffs don't run down in guild hall, apparently except when they do (or will)

2. How many serious tradeskillers can't get wis/int/str/dex maxxed with buffs anyway?

(as a case in point: I made a rogue just to make augs and had zero/zip nada no problem whatsoever keeping his dex maxxed with dirt cheap bazaar gear and the dex built into chanter haste... )

I guess it's nice to have warning but ultimately there are many things of far greater consequence that merit dev attention than this minor side use of GH and VR.

As a final note, what's the larger "abuse" of the guild hall/buff timers:

A guild regaining full mana and hit points and rebuffing in 2 min with guild hall + MGB paragon or a few tradeskillers maxxing already easily maxxed stats once a day?

I think we can guess which "abuse" will get fixed first.

Hyphnos

[Neebat]

After reading through this thread, I noticed a couple of things that seemed to be overlooked:

1. All stats being maxxed or win/int/alt stat being maxxed is all the same for tradeskilling purposes. Max agility and magic resistance don't get you to 300 any faster..

2. All other buff timers don't run in guild hall, as was intended by design

3. Maxxing stats with gear/buffs other than VR2 in guild hall is really not difficult (esp maxxing them to the point of no gain for tradeskills)

One thing that isn't clear to me as I don't have VR on a lower lvl character is whether it brings stats to lvl 70 max or the max for your lvl/AAs. I am assuming your personal max in which case this buff just basically allows you to hit the same stat you'd get normally by bumming buffs from guildies.

It seems absurd to me that SOE would go out of their way to change a VR benefit in guild hall because it doesnt tick down when:

1. It *IS* a buff and buffs don't run down in guild hall, apparently except when they do (or will)

2. How many serious tradeskillers can't get wis/int/str/dex maxxed with buffs anyway?

(as a case in point: I made a rogue just to make augs and had zero/zip nada no problem whatsoever keeping his dex maxxed with dirt cheap bazaar gear and the dex built into chanter haste... )

I guess it's nice to have warning but ultimately there are many things of far greater consequence that merit dev attention than this minor side use of GH and VR.

As a final note, what's the larger "abuse" of the guild hall/buff timers:

A guild regaining full mana and hit points and rebuffing in 2 min with guild hall + MGB paragon or a few tradeskillers maxxing already easily maxxed stats once a day?

I think we can guess which "abuse" will get fixed first.

Hyphnos

Huzzah. I agree completely and emphatically.

BTW, some spells are already flagged to run down in the guild hall. I know dots do, and I think I heard somewhere that one benificial effect already does.

[Qaladar Bragollach]

One thing that isn't clear to me as I don't have VR on a lower lvl character is whether it brings stats to lvl 70 max or the max for your lvl/AAs. I am assuming your personal max in which case this buff just basically allows you to hit the same stat you'd get normally by bumming buffs from guildies.

Max for your level/AA... so its 255 on a low level character.

Not exactly game breaking. I frankly don't understand why this needs to be changed.

[Aethn]

What bugs me is how this is such a high-priority issue when it's truly not a "game-breaking must patch asap" issue (it's not as serious as a macro-able platinum exploit recipe, for example), and there's no communication at all on all the current hot tradeskill topics.

/sigh

SOE has a history of knee-jerking. So much so alot of my friends have been driven from the game over it. Plane of Time has been broken in a sense for 2 years now. They are JUST NOW addressing it.

But I will be da**ed if SOE wont crash the entire server farm, at primetime, on a US holiday, when you have the most people online.... just because some lvl 4 noob found out how to make 3sp extra on a repeatable quest. /kneejerk

[Konjure]

I can confirm Rune of Zephyr exists... I've come across all of one and I still have it in my bank.

Oh! It does have the "ARTIFACT" flag, right?
I'm dreaming of being the one who finds the Kirin Horn, and then see it poof with as I with my own hands click on the combine button.

[Boleslav]

Belatedly coming to Neebat's defense on the idea that recipes can be given arbitrary minimum failure levels. [Edited to clarify what I was defending him for.]

In this thread:
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=21468

Tanker wrote:
"Ok, I looked into the code, and it's working normally. The way it works:

- For normal recipe, min failure chance is 5%.
- For recipe where your skill (unmodified) is more than than the trivial, the min failure chance is reduce by 1% for every 40 points over the trivial your skill is. e.g. your skill = 250, recipe trivial is 100, diff = 150, 150/40 = 3 (almost 4, but not quite), so min failure chance is 2% (5-3). NOTE: this is an integer divide. It will only take off whole percentages... which is why this is 2% instead of 1.25%.
- This min failure chance can be overridden in data by the designer on a per recipe basis, replacing it with a higher value."

Looks pretty definitive to me.

Boleslav Forgehammer

[Niami DenMother]

{This is Ngreth Posting as Niami. On her computer and not wanting to fool with the saved login... - Ngreth}

I spoke with Tanker here at the Community Summit.

Tanker made it POSSIBLE for the devs to change this veteran reward to have the timer tick down. He indicated that he did not know if they turned on the timer, NOR if they actually plan too. He just made it POSSIBLE.

{- Ngreth}

[Neebat]

I spoke with Tanker here at the Community Summit.

Tanker made it POSSIBLE for the devs to change this veteran reward to have the timer tick down. He indicated that he did not know if they turned on the timer, NOR if they actually plan too. He just made it POSSIBLE.

Ah, cool. Could he also make it possible for them to pause the effect AND the timer? This would save the effect for people who need it outside the guild hall while still limiting the effectiveness for tradeskilling.