Trivial Changes (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly)

[Aroara]

Now, as I'm sure you've noticed, some of these changes found their way live, somewhat unexpectedly, and I can understand the frustration at the changes, however...

I will give the benifit of the doubt about better things to come... it's understandable with all the expansions out that the tradeskills need updating. But until these changes are made I'm sitting out on a lot of pre combining because I (as well as many others) lost a TON of plat. I think I probably single handedly killed the plat surplus on 7th hammer with that patch... The general attitude being given it seems is that this was no big deal...a little "oopsie" and that it will be all better once the trivials are sorted out. It really isn't a matter of us going through a heart ache "in the mean time" because none of us that lost out on hours and hours of farming and spending tons of plat on gem studded chain are going to get back what was lost. This is supposed to be fun...

[Wyvernwill]

Well, is two groups considered a raid to you? If so, then you're right. I don't see a raid as anything under 18 people. But that's my view point. XtC with two groups of 70s isn't that tough. But then again, if you figure all 12 are "devoted" tradeskillers they probably wouldn't even be able to find XtC :P

[Xodar]

Well, is two groups considered a raid to you? If so, then you're right. I don't see a raid as anything under 18 people. But that's my view point. XtC with two groups of 70s isn't that tough. But then again, if you figure all 12 are "devoted" tradeskillers they probably wouldn't even be able to find XtC :P

Hehe, that's fairly condescending. Most "devoted" tradeskillers I know are the ones who camped Comm for hours to get the **** key to have a shot at that hammer. Having a good knowledge of tradeskills is helped rather then hurt by having a good knowledge of mobs, zones, and strategy. Pretty much required at the high end.

[Wyvernwill]

My apologies if it came off as rather condescending. I am growing weary of hearing this constant "devoted" tradeskiller and "main" tradeskiller tags everyone keeps throwing around like they are defined to mean something other than implied beliefs.

Devoted = does ABSOLUTELY nothing but tradeskill in my book.
Main = does primarily nothing but tradeskill.

If you exp, raid, group, solo and tradeskill, how can you be devoted to one thing when do you do so many other things in addition? My comment may be viewed as condescending, but if you take the words for what they mean, a Devoted Tradeskiller would have really very little clue of anything beyond trades.

(edited on an spelling error... should use spell check someday)

[Sylphan]

The issue with modifiers, I think, is it that they used to be useful just for skilling up, and now they're more useful. Because of a few particular items the gap between raiders and nonraiders has grown, not shrunk, and in a more permanent way. The various tradeskill mastery AAs also increased the gap between high level and lower level tradeskillers.

If a cap were put on all tradeskills at, say, 315, we could get back closer to the old status quo.

[Paprika]

I would like to farm shissar scales and yttrium ore too. However, the powers that be have decided that I may only use racnar hides and basilisk teeth, which to my knowledge drop in HoT and Veeshan's Peak, respectively. Unfortunately I never got around to getting my VP key and I don't see people flocking to a zone at the end of the world to kill dragons just to support my tailoring. But I suppose the incredibly unbalanced implementation of cultural components is more of a tangent to the topic at hand so...back to ranting about the trivial changes now

Having been a board lurker for far too long I thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth

Gotta agree wholeheartedly with Ziela I'm a casual player simply because I can't devote long hours to EQ ..... I'd love to but until I win the lottery then I'm stuck to grabbing an hour or two when I can. While I appreciate this means my progress will be slower than someone who can raid on a regular basis it irks me somewhat that I'll never be able to reach the heights of crafting simply because I can't gain access to the uber-zones

As for the triv changes I can't help but feel poor old Maddoc has been hung out to dry by his own people .... changes he had planned for "future release" got bumped into a patch and went live before he was ready - that's bad in anyone's books

Hopefully when the full tradeskill patch hits it'll be well warned about and will help the oft forgotten "casual" player as much as it helps the raiders

[Mhykael]

I too lurk amongst the boards, not prone to input or disputes. But I felt with this change, I have a need, and a duty, to get down from my perch on the fence and throw my words into the mix.

As a part of the entire EQ experience, I would probably say that the tradeskills, despite a few bumps now and then, has been the smoothest running part of the game...up till this point. The mistake that was made here, and yes Maddoc, you yourself admit so much in your post, is on par with any one of the various horrendous blunders that the other depatments of the game had ever made. Dont get me wrong. I love this game. I like what the entire Dev team has done with EQ. But to sit back now, and wait for the screaming and kicking to calm down over this isnt, i dont believe, an apropriate action to take. I urge you to please make this right with the player-base, and the tradeskilling community at large.

[Blayze Meduenin]

Devoted = does ABSOLUTELY nothing but tradeskill in my book.
Main = does primarily nothing but tradeskill.

see those definitions right there is where your misunderstandings come from.

when people say 'main' tradeskiller they do not mean someone just or mainly tradeskills.

a 'main' trade skiller is someone who (regardles of what else they do, soloing, grouping or raiding) spends time and effort on tradeskills and have for most of their playing time as opposed to:

'non main' tradeskill 'bot' who power leveled a tradeskill by buying their way there in a few days purely to farm some high end components to make and sell for a profit.

That is the distinction.

a 'main' tradeskiller is just a term used to differentiate between someone who tradeksills because thats what they enjoy and a powerleveled bot who bought the skill in a few days to farm and sell high end stuff for plat

now after that, as for what is and is not a raid mob. No one can say any mob isnt a raid mob. Every mob is a raid mob to someone, hell low lvls would need a raid for dvinn in crushbone if you wanna go to extremes.

All anyone can say is it isnt a raid mob to me, or my guild or whatever.

As to the creator in ssra as that example is being used. Someone posted how it is a very hard fight for 1 group of time geared folk.

Now if its a hard fight for them, even the very best geared non raid folk would need 2 groups (since the best no raid gear is sub time standard)

Now if youre talking casuals it very certainly IS a raid (3+ groups) as they are no where near the lvl/aas/gear of even the best non raid folk.

so can we please get off this 'it isnt a raid mob' now mentality

[YurienStonebow]

after a few days and 100+ posts don''t you think it's time to respond? granted my tailoring is 177 so it didn't hurt me, prolly helped if anything. i'm still pissed though. it isn't right even though i get benefits from it. i understand you didn't mean for it to go live yet. wasn't your fault as far as i can see.

but please respond or do something. how many accounts ahve been cacnelled? how many times has the house ogre fixed posts on this thread (who knew ogres could read let alone proofread heh) ?

personally wiht all the toons i ahve this is the only board that acts like a community. i've got bst, ber, rog, dru, rng, shm, enc toons but haven't found a class site even close to being as together as EQTC. we are the only community that comes together, as far as i can see on boards, and act together. SOE doesn't see us as being anything other then : ok so a few ppl tradeskill out of boredom" type looks. maybe i'm wrong but it looks like we are one of the BIGGEST groups in EQ and have one of the hardest times getting things done properly. especially the non-ubah guilded/raid type of players. personally i'm lucky to get a few hours a week now but i still continue to paly. when i get to paly i tradeskill and chat cause i know i can't hunt exp

{Removed the title.
I will leave ther rest though I was inclined to remove it.
This is NOT SOE's board. No posting of any type on these boards by SOE requires them to post AGAIN on these boards. No mnatter how much you WANT it to be, or believe it should be, they are ONLY "required" to post on THEIR boards, not ours.
When you post on these boards you are posting to OTHER tradeskillers NOT SOE. Please do not address posts on these boards to SOE. - Ngreth}

[Liwsa]

The other point to remember is that no mater what item with the modifier you used once you hit the hard cap of 252 the field was equal. NOW that the cap has been removed a geerlock or a trophy(which should have a higher modifer then a geerlock) are inferior to the looted items with 10-15 percent modifers. 315 skill vs a 330 or a 345 skill.

When geerlocks and trophies were put in, they could have had a 1 percent modifer for all the good it would do when you hit 250 skill. As previous stated items with modifers were used to help succeed mostly BEFORE your skill was maxed(240 + 5 percent modifer) gave you the same skill as a 250 + modifer thus no real benifit to which item you had. NOW the modifer gives you an advantage since your skill will be greater where before it wasn't.

[Ziela]

To me it would make more sense for trophies to have the highest modifier. Aren't they supposed to be the proof and culmination of all your hard work and high level of craftsmanship? As opposed to killing something and prying a pair of shears from its fingers Perhaps a quest, augment etc. could be added that would upgrade your trophy to 15%. You could only obtain the quest/item once your skill in that area was 300 (or if they really wanted to make it hard, could also require the mastery aa's).

[Wyvernwill]

What's to say that new GM trophies, or updated old once's aren't part of the surprise in store for everyone?

They might be harder to get the items for, but in the same respect, they could very well be worth it too.

As for my definitions Blayze, there is no wrong or right. Because I have a different view point and take the words for what they "literally" mean does not mean that my definitions are wrong. The definitions you gave for a main tradeskiller leave a lot of holes and grey area. Using myself, I would not be a main tradeskiller. I believe that to be far from true. I keep myself as fully up to date on tradeskills and work on them when I get the change, however since trades did earn me a good amount of cash, I use that cash to get the combines faster to avoid spending hours farming green con mobs.

I love trades, however I loathe having to farm for 100s of combines to gain a few points. But then again, the whole reason I started down the tradeskill path was to work on Velious leathers for my friend's monk and my own... from there, I just had fun with them, no matter how frustrating they got.

[Treefriend]

The Issue--The Ugly

First off, thought almost everything that can be said has been I would like to go back to the basic issue. I think, IMHO, the real issue is not *that* the trivs were changed but *how* they were. No warning and now no support.

This is the most unporfessional action I have ever seen taken by an entertainment corporation. The cold, callous, blindsiding of we who rely on this organization to provide us our moneys worth in quality entertainment was totaly uncalled for. As a gaming community we have always rolled with the punches and kept on trucking and we don't deserve to be treated this way. It is evident that we, as players, do more futuristic planing for our tradeskilling enjoyment than the developers do for customer satisfacton.

Quite frankly, This action should be nominated for some kind of "Gaming Industry Screw-up of the Year" award.

[Paprika]

First off, thought almost everything that can be said has been I would like to go back to the basic issue. I think, IMHO, the real issue is not *that* the trivs were changed but *how* they were. No warning and now no support.

This is the most unporfessional action I have ever seen taken by an entertainment corporation. The cold, callous, blindsiding of we who rely on this organization to provide us our moneys worth in quality entertainment was totaly uncalled for. As a gaming community we have always rolled with the punches and kept on trucking and we don't deserve to be treated this way. It is evident that we, as players, do more futuristic planing for our tradeskilling enjoyment than the developers do for customer satisfacton.

Quite frankly, This action should be nominated for some kind of "Gaming Industry Screw-up of the Year" award.

Agree wholeheartedly !

Games like EQ have to grow and change otherwise they soon become stale and ultimately die..... as someone who regularly played PSO 1 and 2 I've seen it happen

But (and it's a big but) actions that radically alter aspects of the game should be well announced ! Can you imagine what would happen if you bought a season ticket,turned up to an NFL game only to be told the rules had changed and it was now a non-contact collectable card game (bit extreme but you get the picture)

Tradeskills do need looking at, trivs do need adjusting - it just needs doing sensibly !

Hopefully Maddoc has found the muppet who included the triv changes in the live patch and has shown them the eror of their ways

[Bolas]

Maddoc I'm disappointed due to the sheer volume of tradeskill supplies that I had stashed which are now useless. That's a lot of time, money, and effort that I'm out. How about 30 days of the old trivial levels to let us use up our existing supplies?

Thanks,
Bolas