Trivial Changes (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly)

[Zacatac]

If they lower "old cultural" armor down to be easier, I'm not sure how I'd feel about that either. Yes, I could make/sell more. But if you're trying to tell me the hours and hours of gathering components and subcombines to make this stuff is "too easy" to justify a skill increase then you've lost me right there.

40 Blue diamonds, 40 block of velium, 40 enchanted bars of mithril, stack of imbued emeralds, 2 stacks of morning dew (forage only), 2 stacks of moonlight essense, 1 stack of swirling mists, stack of leather padding, 2 stacks of celestial essence, 2 stacks of coldain temper

Time spent farming and gathering components = HOURS & HOURS
Subcombines= 40+40+40+40+40+20+20+20+40

Final skill up combine attempts after all that work = 20 chances to skill up.

Last night I did this with 13 success and ZERO SKILLUPS.

Try telling me that it's too easy to do, please.

[tnexus]

Be thankful you don't need Excellent Sabertooth Hides and Oak Bark...

[Aavar]

The tradeskill caps have been increased to 300, with all other standard rules applying. The issue with fishing has been fixed in this update, so you should be good to go.

One thing to note is that I will be taking a look at the various skills that have recipes that trivial over 250, evaluating them as skill-up paths, and possibly making some changes to those that are too easy to gain skill on.

Getting to 300 skill is not meant to be an easy path, however, once you get there, it should be a rewarding one, considering all the fancy new cultural armor you guys are getting

-- Maddoc

ah seems to me you are living in the past, looking at the stats of the cultural armor, why would any character in a high end guild wear it? at best it is on par with top level time gear , which is 3 expansions old?
Okay so the armor is targerted at more casual players and non top end guild players.
Ok so now the items to make this cultural is hard to get and rare, as items of to make items this level have always been, rare as well as hard to make.
You are making harder to reach the 300 skill level, and you are doing in an unfair manner. Ie giveng the chance for rich players, generally non casual level players to reach to skill level of 300 and then denying the same skkill up path to the less fortunate players, generally the more casual player who is not enourmously rich or have enourmous time to bang out the skill points in a short period of time.

If you were going to change the trivial levels you should have done it at the same time you changed the skill cap.
Doing it the way you have. means you antagonize the tradeskill community much more than neccessary.
after all you already have have posts of people quitting the game and cancelling accounts due to teh lowering of trivial levels for tailoring alone.

Personnaly i do see what you are trying to do, so you make the goal of having 300 skill in all tradeskills a meaningful level, ie not everyone can get easily, but you guys dropped the ball on the implemetation already and are only going to lose players, which really cannot be good for the game in general.

IE its not the lowering of the trivials which really got everyone upset. ITS how and when you lowered the trivials which are really upsetting people.

IE if you had lowered the trivial when DON came out , people would have gotten upset, but probably not as upset to having essentail a ninja nerf to the trivials when people are actively using the recipes and spent time and money to pepare for the recipes.

Basically you are saying to these people, you know the last two weeks for prep and the 100 to 200 K you spent , well to bad for you, WE made that time be utterly worthless and we are not cre-compensating you at all for the losss.
Now most people play this game for fun and to accomplish in game goals and spend a large part of their free time to do so. These sudden lowering of trivials wastes that time they have spent.

I don't know about you but wouldn't you be angry if you spent your free time to set up for an event , and you were paying for the time you spent on it and suddenly over night they told you that oh your event is worthless.

I sure would be.

[Cellan]

Just to note from another thread:
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=19976

The tradeskill caps have been increased to 300, with all other standard rules applying. The issue with fishing has been fixed in this update, so you should be good to go.

One thing to note is that I will be taking a look at the various skills that have recipes that trivial over 250, evaluating them as skill-up paths, and possibly making some changes to those that are too easy to gain skill on.

Getting to 300 skill is not meant to be an easy path, however, once you get there, it should be a rewarding one, considering all the fancy new cultural armor you guys are getting

-- Maddoc

I am sorry if I must scan every message board reading the same patch message a million times and replies to them as well to receive any announcement to this. Once again, lack of communication and blowing off EQ players is in style for SoE.

[Caladel]

Chaning the trivials at the same time DoN went live with the increased caps woulda been fine.

But chaning them without warning when people have spent a huge ammount of time and plat doing precombines or farming for a skill run is straight wrong. This change really needs to be recinded for a few days to give people time to dump the combines they spent time farming.

Im the type who does batch skilling. Ill spend weeks or months building up suppiles to do a TS skillup push. When i did tailoring on my wizard i built up a stock of 1,000 combines before i did a skill up scession on him, it took me about 6 months to stock that up. Had this change happened then, pissed would not even begin to cover it.

Fortunately i didnt have a huge(by my standards) stockpile built up this time, but i do have hundreds of combines worth of useless stuff now.

I really dont understand the need for teh tailoring recipies to be lowered at all. Some other tradeskills you bet, JC for instance up to 282 is far too easy. Brewing is far too easy. ETc.

Tailoring was NEVER far too easy, solstice robes are made at a severe plat loss have MANY subcombines, 3 enchanted gems per, and no less then 6 dropped items per skill attempt. Those things are not cheap, they are not easy, they are VERY time intensive, i dont see why it shouldnt be a viable skill up path. Same goes for the velious leathers, farming the pelts, the velium, fishing or forraging, then the precombines....thats a LOT of time spent.

[Wyvernwill]

I guess I look at the rewards for tradeskilling vs the investment. I can see a reason for Tailoring and Smithing to be harder than all of the other tradeskills.

Overall, I made millions of plat off of tailoring while skilling it up. But that was the benefit of being in the ages of twinks and when cloaks with high wis didn't really exit in easy to get places :P Once I hit 250... Elemental stuff was the way I took, and from there, every cp i put in produced 1pp it seemed. The GM stuff looks like it may have a very similar turn around financially, but the tailoring game just got tougher.

Granted, I am still at 250 and still feeling the pinch off like everyone else and I am not happy that others have made 300 in that month while everyone else is told to find a new way using items that are very difficult to gather and even get people to go to those zones for. Guess I would have been bothered if all trades were equally as hard /shrug.

[joatmoneq]

Unsat

I am sorry, but this was indeed a mess and the whole situation is UNSAT from start to finish. I can understand that SOE would wish to prevent their new precious cultural from flooding the servers, but this is overkill.

I realize that this was put in w/o Maddoc's prior knowledge, but that just points out further issues in SOEs internal process, which I hope are being addressed as well to prevent future repeats of events like this.

Unfortunately Maddoc's well intended response seems to have been more like tossing fuel on the fire than extinguishing it. The vague promise of future deliverables w/o any form of due date is something many players no longer take at face value. The complete lack of compassion on SOE's behalf for people who have put their hearts and souls into getting their parts to attempt skillups is appalling and seems to be the largest point of contention. I was rather lucky on this, and only had a stack worth of combines to do when it hit. My main personal concern has been looking for a new viable skillup route.

If Maddoc would have the old trivials ennacted for about 2 weeks time, and maybe halt Artic Wyvern Drops during that span, it would probably resolve much of the angst in this situation. There would be people who have sold stuff off that would be livid, but a lot sound like they decided to hold onto it for alts.

There are probably other suitable resolutions. If anyone has any ideas, toss them out there. Maybe we can get a united front on this and have a real fix action instead of a minor alteration, that will leave a lot of folks fuming and ready to leave the game.

[calidorn2]

I will say again - There is not one single piece of DoN GM cultural on my server. There are 2 people I know of who have the GM books. I am quite possibly the only 300 tailor and 300 smith. How long has DoN been live ? 3 weeks ? I have seen 2 scales for sale, no silk and no hides. 1 purescale ore is going for 25k right now.

This whole thing is not about limiting the amont of GM cultural coming into the game. To say that there is a problem or that there will be a problem in relation to excess cultural in game is quite silly at this point in time.

Yet another really loopy thing they have done is let 15% mods work to get you 345 skill. With 345 skill and all aa's you will probably succeed 80+ % on GM combines. 39 points above your level is not a hard combine. One item has gone from giving you a 2 point bonus at max skill to a 45 point bonus. Now that needs to be looked into if anything does. I cannot see that they will though. Tradeskills are definately being aimed at high end players. The very same players who will actually never wear the armour.

[Cellan]

Yet another really loopy thing they have done is let 15% mods work to get you 345 skill. With 345 skill and all aa's you will probably succeed 80+ % on GM combines. 39 points above your level is not a hard combine. One item has gone from giving you a 2 point bonus at max skill to a 45 point bonus. Now that needs to be looked into if anything does. I cannot see that they will though. Tradeskills are definately being aimed at high end players. The very same players who will actually never wear the armour.

Funny you brought this up.

300skill + 15%skillmod + 3 Levels of Mastery ---- Trivial 386 = 97.5% success rate

300skill + 5%skillmod + 3 Levels of Mastery ---- Trivial 386 = 88.5% success rate

What is really peeving is that if they were to let skillcaps be breached thru mods they shouldn't have it drop of some mob in game. I really think they should have capped skills at 315 or lower and just added an upgrade to TS trophys that could be done with a >315 trivial and some rare items (not stupid rare) and add "improved blacksmithing" to them to boost success rate. This allows geerloks and old skill mods to work to a degree and once again gives value to TS trophies.

[Myrron]

I wonder what the trivial is for trophies. Would be funny to skill up on those.

--Myrron Lifewarder

[Caladel]

Mods not being caped past 300 is a nerf i fully support. It should be hard capped at no more then 5% above the current cap. Unless they plan to add 15% tradeskill trophies in the game.

[CaiserSoze]

No, mods should have never been capped.... why penalize the folks with a 10 or 15% mod item just because you dont have one?

[Cellan]

The problem is that TS trophies were once the only mods in the game and any dedicated TSer could bless himself with this mod. Then it was whored out to greater degree with items dropped and then tinkering. The value of a TS declined greatly because of this. Want a mod? Get a geerlok it has same mod. Want a better mod? Go to Ssra and get one from emp or some dude in GE. Trophies mean nothing but a WR bag now.

[Turlo Lomon]

Although I am also disappointed with the recent changes, it didn't come as a total shock to me. Why?

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/show...627#post142627

Maddoc told us this was coming just under a month ago. At that time we supported him. Now, we are getting our arms up in the air over this? This isn't the first time that a mass of tradeskill items had their trivial lowered without notice. Fine Steel Armor and Banded Armor anyone?

We survived then, and came out on top after all the changes went through. We will do the same now. I have confidence in what Maddoc has in plan for our future.

[Cellan]

Although I am also disappointed with the recent changes, it didn't come as a total shock to me. Why?

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/show...627#post142627

Maddoc told us this was coming just under a month ago. At that time we supported him. Now, we are getting our arms up in the air over this? This isn't the first time that a mass of tradeskill items had their trivial lowered without notice. Fine Steel Armor and Banded Armor anyone?

We survived then, and came out on top after all the changes went through. We will do the same now. I have confidence in what Maddoc has in plan for our future.

Like I said earlier:

I am sorry if I must scan every message board reading the same patch message a million times and replies to them as well to receive any announcement to this. Once again, lack of communication and blowing off EQ players is in style for SoE.