Trivial Changes (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly)

[Zacatac]

I agree that the trivials on Velious stuff was too high when compared to the resulting piece of armor. Most of us who used that route to skill up ended up dumping our fine goods back onto a vendor. You can only sell so many wyvern hide masks, or Othmir caps.

However, I think changing the Solstice robe was a HUGE mistake on your part, and it should be put back.

A simple PIECE of the ROBE takes 335 trivial JC combine to make, why on earth would the robe itself be a 252 combine now??

The mistle cutting sickes are still above 300
The gem studded chain is still above 300
The misty thicket picnics are still above 300

All the other traders can still use the corresponding receipes to skill up, but not the tailors. This is WRONG.

[Trellium]

Anyway, whatever happens, don't dump your components yet! Imagine the double frustration if it turns out the new recipes also use wyvern hides and cod oil.

The problem is lack of information. The items currently use up a ton of bank space, and money that could be used elsewhere. Also, there is no reason to believe that the prices are in any way stable - they may be the same after the new tradeskills go in, they may go up again, or they may have no value whatsoever.

Also, I want to know if this is something we need to buy an expansion for to fix. Some people managed to level up to 300 easily, others (more casual players) will not have any short term method at all, and the long term skillups might mean buying one or more expansions later this year, to replace recipes from 7 expansions ago.

I don't think we should assume any new recipes are free.

[Quaras]

I agree with Zac! As usual. Very frustrated 250 tailor.

[andyhre]

I'm a 200 tailor, and have been so for quite some time. Someday I'd planned to skill up, but it's very low on my list, given the other uses I have for AAs. But in theory, I'm supposed to be happy about this change b/c the arctic wyvern stuff will be a much better choice for 200->252 than it was before, and while Solstice Robes will become more expensive, they'll also go a little faster.

But I can tell you, that even as a beneficiary, I think this was done wrong. The intent may be noble, but the tried and true method of introducing new, attractive recipes in a gap remained available, and seems the way to solve things. Give the 200->250 crowd help, but not at the expense of the 252->300 folks. Please.

Andy

p.s. Should be easy enough to swithc these back whenever the patch to re-fix all of the other tradeskill stuff that was supposed to happen but didn't, like making cultural fletching work again [Yes, the BFT crisis continues] or making the previously trainable skills trainable for the first points. Since you have to do this anyway, you'll have a great opportunity to fix the trivial error as well.

[Kellan]

Hustle

As one previous poster noted, Maddoc is planning to revamp all the tradeskill trivials to reflect the difficulty in obtaining the ingredients (note he did not say the amount of subcombines). *Only* the tailoring step went Live so far, so I suggest everyone who is in a hurry to skill-up spend time pounding out all the other skills you can before the next patch just in case other skills get trivials fixed.

The ingredients for Misty Thicket Picnics are *EASY* to get, so I would expect the trivial to drop to 252 soon. The same goes for Mistletoe Cutting Sickles, Brut Champagne, Kaladim Constitionals, etc. If it's easy to get the parts, it's usefulness to tradeskillers is going to get nerfed. And no, the hours of farming sub-L10 mobs for parts and doing a half-dozen subcombines does not make a recipe hard in this context.

[Randos]

Just to note from another thread:
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=19976

The tradeskill caps have been increased to 300, with all other standard rules applying. The issue with fishing has been fixed in this update, so you should be good to go.

One thing to note is that I will be taking a look at the various skills that have recipes that trivial over 250, evaluating them as skill-up paths, and possibly making some changes to those that are too easy to gain skill on.

Getting to 300 skill is not meant to be an easy path, however, once you get there, it should be a rewarding one, considering all the fancy new cultural armor you guys are getting

-- Maddoc

[calidorn2]

Silly.



Glad I got tailoring, smithing and JC to 300 already though. To be perfectly honest I can think of no profitable tradeskill outside of these 3 that are open to my character. I would say that I spent 500k getting smithing and tailoring from 250 to 300. Not cheap and since I have not sold a single DoN armour piece yet I can safely say not profitable either.....yet. I gave away the palladium jc items because basically they suck.

To me tradeskilling is about personal satisfaction. To me there is no money in it. I do not really search out items to make and sell gear. I browse once in a while and if I see enough of something worth anything I might throw it together and try not to make a loss.

In an economy where they need every single plat sink they can possibly find they have just done themselves, and us, a huge disservice. I mean really. Look at me. I just destroyed 500k, literally. Sure I got master in a few skills but for what ? A title or 3. The chance to fail a few more high end combines and put further pressure on my failing sanity. The pure joy of explaining to some idiot that purescale ore is not worth 350k ?

If you do /buyer and then enter 'grandmaster' into the search it will show you all the grandmaster DoN items that have been made on your server. As new items are made they will add to the list. On Luclin there has been NO grandmaster armour made at all. I have made a leg symbol and Banut has made a leg and chest symbol. That is all. There are a few GM bars of metal but since they do not need GM molds and patterns that means little yet. So to say they are trying to limit the amount of DoN armour coming into the world by restricting 300 tradeskillers is not actually a valid arguement at the moment. On Luclin anyway.

Ahh well.

My sympathy to everyone who failed to dodge the nerf bat on this one. Not a very well implemented plan to say the least.

[Ziela]

I can't wait for my tailoring to be high enough to make my fancy new half-elf druid armor! I should be raking in the plat by selling it to the other 3 half-elf druids on the server...
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they finally added cultural to all races...but for some it's nothing more than a potential skill-up path. Either way, adding new recipes hardly justifies nerfing the main skill-up routes with no warning, after people have spent weeks-months stockpiling ingredients. I can still use my silks to make my run from 200-220, but now that the success rate is much higher there's no way I would have chosen that path if I'd known ahead of time. What I really don't understand is why they changed the (arguably) most expensive and time-consuming tradeskill and made it...more expensive and time-consuming. If this is indicative of things to come, my guess is the reason fletching kits haven't been fixed either is that they'll nerf my lovely Karana arrows
As a side note, I actually think there was no malicious intent. Just that the developers have NO idea how much time and plat people have to invest in tailoring. True, you can sell off your unusable components now to tradeskillers like me with a slightly lower skill...but that doesn't account for all the time farming and doing subcombines unless you can turn around and buy equivalent ingredients.

[Laurelleii]

.. and possibly making some changes to those that are too easy to gain skill on.
-- Maddoc

Ah well see now there we are, the real reason tailoring was nerfed. Yes I concur, the hours and hours of subcombines involved in solstice robes at absolutely no profit, definitely too easy. The hours of farming pelts and fishing for cod and farming velium also for no profit, definitely just too easy.

I shudder to think what your definition of difficult will be and honestly starting to doubt I'll care once it's eventually put into the game.

[trapp]

As I read here and have contact in game with many good friends, I see three points here:
1. There was an error made in this change going to patch ( admitted in an above post by Maddoc )
2. That post really trivialized the loss of Plat, inventory, and hours of game play time ( farming ) by what for the most part are casual gamers who play this game for the fun of tradeskilling.
3. Tradeskillers are leaving EQ "like rats leaving a sinking ship" ( not an intention of that saying to call tradeskillers rats )

In today world of RPG's, (you only need to read the statistics to see) the Everquest customer base has been slipping fast. Mostly due to the many new games out there which have been made more powerfull using better technology, and for some gamers style are more fun.

That said, if i were the CEO of Sony Everquest and an " Error " of this magnitude was made which has further deteriorated the customer base I would be infuriated. This has really disgruntaled a lot of people, to the point many are leaving.

I'm saddened for the most part to see some very nice people ( and most tradeskillers fit that catagory) leaving over this issue.

As stated elsewhere the changes to EQ tradeskills have been excellent, I won't list all the kewl things that have been done to make tradeskilling more fun. I was one of the first players to reach 250 fletching way back five years ago. I can remember sitting for hours on end moving arrow parts one at a time off of a stack into a fletching kit, combining, then placing the success into a bag. At that time there wasn't even a ctrl left click to get one off the stack. Well maybe there was, I probably wasn't aware of it. We've come a long way from that scenario.

It is my opinion that Maddoc should do the right thing, maintain his credability, change this back now rather than later. Eat a bit of crow ( it may taste ok if boiled long enough) Even if the change back is until the next patch.

[Appren Hightowerr]

I'm sure I'll be REALLY HAPPY IN THE END...yeah right..with 180-200kpp BLOODY WASTED on USELESS tradeskill components stored up and ready to go...thanks for NOTHING

Rewarding for sure, about as rewarding as cutting myself with scissors or something like that. This board needs a real flame forum where I can really say what I mean about the people in charge of tradeskills at SOE.

[trapp]

This board needs a real flame forum where I can really say what I mean about the people in charge of tradeskills at SOE.

Try the Scream room, but be kind.

[Appren Hightowerr]

Try the Scream room, but be kind.

I cant say what I mean about Maddoc and the rest and still be kind.

[Myrron]

We know it's frustrating, but I can say on behalf of all the mod team that we're very thankful people are watching their tongues on this issue. It is GREATLY appreciated, especially in times like this. Thank you,

--Myrron Lifewarder

[Taushar]

I got double whammy on this one. I made over 150 Gem Studded Chains to get to 300 in JC in anticipation of doing tailoring. I was going to start on other TS items but I noticed that the GM quest for cultural armor you had to be at 70 to get. So, I spent last week leveling from 69 to 70 and dinged on the night of the patch. Now they lowered the requirement to 65 which meant I could have spent that time tradeskilling rather than leveling. I am not happy about this at all. What am I gonna do with all the Gem Studded Chains I made? Sell them back at a huge loss?

One of the few reasons I didn't cancel my 4 accounts and moved on was the new trivial on DoN. It gave me renewed sense of fun. However, it seems my tradeskill days are over if they are going to continue to "improve" the tradeskills. Seriously, I have achieved level 70 with tons of AAs, what else is there to keep my interested other than tradeskills? What would have taken me few months to get my skills up, now it's going to take years. Maybe that's the strategy, keep us reeled in. However, this time it may be the last straw for me. I have been patient for last almost 5 years but if it continues going in this direction then it's time for me to seriously reconsider.

Taushar