Fan Faire Write-up, Part 2: Tradeskill Super-Trophies

[Demorgoth]

The stats should be valuable and beneficial by the current standards of the game.

That's the problem I was trying to avoid. 'Valuable and benficial' depends entirely on perspective, and a fixed value only really applies to a very very small proportion of the gamewide tradeskillers at once.

For range slot I've already got a 290hp item, and obviously I need my pri/sec for agro weapons (being a warrior). What stats would you suggest it have so that it's 'valuable and beneficial' to someone like me?

What's the difference in exluding those tradeskillers in the high end game by making stats they wouldn't use, and excluding tradeskillers at other parts of the game by making drops they couldn't reach?

I like the 'combine for a nodrop/norent tradeskill mod item' idea though.

[Demorgoth]

Demorgoth,

Of course stats are still useful to a 1750 tradeskiller. It’s the % mod to tradeskills that is of no further use (once you are 250 skill, you don’t really need a skill mod item, do you?)

I thought relative skill level was the only thing that determined successful combines, and stats only affected skillups? If you're not skilling up, what use *while tradeskilling* would stats give, other than charisma for buying/selling if not above 105?

I'm deliberately differentiating between a 1750 tradeskiller, and a person with 1750 in tradeskills who needs stats for adventuring, because of the reasons outlined above about choosing a value that's the same for everyone

The % mod would take you from 250 (player cap) to 252 (real cap), and I only chose 5% because 1% looks so silly hehe. Could make it 1% and have no difference. A single effect: Aura of the Tradeskill Masters, giving 1% to all tradeskills would look even better, but I doubt they'd be willing to code that.

[Lickity]

Ah yes, I see your point. Since the AG quest drove people to tradeskill it has unbalanced the game. Because.. you know, if AG never existed and all those people had just simply chosen to do tradeskills and flooded the markets the same way, that wouldn't be unbalancing at all.

I think you are just annoyed that your grip on the tradeskill market has been weakened.

Actually, Lex, you are wrong. I have been tradeskilling long before PoP and there were VERY few tradeskillers who tradeskilled "just because." It was not until the advent of AG that people tradeskilled for the gear associated with it. If these people had actually decided to tradeskill because they "had just simply chosen to do tradeskills" I would have no problem with it. Your Time flag and EP gear is impressive and all, but I TOO have advanced flags and the ability to do AG myself, but I am STILL irritated by the fact that the market has been flooded, and more importantly, the lower level tradeskillers have been pushed out because of the demand for higher priced farmed goods from the bazaar. There was always a market for scalped priced Leather Padding, but this price has skyrocketed directly in corrolation with the number of people that end up able to do AG. It is not my wanting to have a "grip on the tradeskill market" but that I, in fact, would like to see a TRADESKILL market. It does not exist, maybe 1% of all tradeskilled items are marketable, and this is without a doubt because of tradeskill inflation due to increased in game rewards vs. the plat required/plat received that was originally inherent with tradeskilling. I doubt that you yourself are one of these bandwagon tradeskillers, but we have all met them. We have all gotten tells "What is the quickest way to my AG earring." Anyone who has tradeskilled before PoP has seen the difference.

I made my post wanting to make this new trophy compatible with everyone in the game, not just myself. Personally, I would love to see an item that I could equip 100% of the time without sacrificing anything of mine, but I realize that tradeskilling is not a gift given to me and other EP players, so I didn't request it. Tradeskills should remain independent of your players level like they were intended, and be based on your tradeSKILL as it implies.

[Taadieri]

I like the idea of a trophy that you can only get if you have 250 in all 7 of the main tradeskills that would be useful, but not unbalancing, to anyone that could earn it. It isn't easy to make an item worth equipping for a level 65 Time-flagged character that is balanced for a level 51 tradeskill fanatic that just ground out enough aa to get the tanaan craft masteries.

The idea of making the trophy an augment seems like a good one. As suggested before, have the player hail an NPC that will check for 250 in all tradeskills before handing out a box to combine all 7 trophies. Turning in the box would result in a character flag and and a lore no-drop augment that fits into any augment slot and any equipment type. The character flag is needed so that if the player wants to put the augment on a different piece of equipment, they can remove it with a solvent and get a replacement from the NPC as with the reward from the Breakdown in Communications quest.

As for what to put on the augment, I think +50 hp/mana/end and +10 to all stats and resists would be reasonable.

As suggested before, give it an effect that summons a different bag than the one summoned by the regular trophies. I personallly think the bags should be no rent as the current ones are now, but turning one in to a quest NPC would return a permanent bag that is 80% wr and affects coin weight.

Having the no rent bags contain 7 no rent tradeskill mods would reduce the need to carry those mods around all the time, but would also require a player to destroy each of them if they were summoning up the bag to hold stuff, so it is not clear whether this would be a desirable feature or not.

[Eggborn]

The toolbelt is a wonderful idea.

I wouldn't mind seeing a version for each skill though in the process.

My case as an example:

I have a sk that smiths, brews and fletches over 200. She also does some other tradeskills at a bit lower level to make stuff for her main skills.

I have a druid who bakes and tailors over 200.

I have 3 mules who carry the extra stuff for these tradeskilling characters.

My banks are always full , my inventory is always full.


What is stopping me from being 1750 is the room! I dont just want to get to 1750, I want to make things once I get up there. With two characters doing tradeskills I can barely make things I would like to make. I tend to throw away or sell things I would rather just combine, due to lack of space.

An ultimate toolbelt would be a great prize for a 1750, but a GM toolbelt along the way for each skill, adding your current GM skills to it as you go along would help save more space and encourange to use these skill more for just "leveling" them.

I think it is the most boring thing to just grab some items and grind levels!! With the current quests, that's what I see a lot of people doing. What is the point of that?

toolbelt each skill
final toolbelt for all skills $$$

[Pootle]

OK, i have just has an idea.... but havent read this whole thread so it may not be a new one.

I know people are concerned with the room all the trophies take up in their bank, and unfortunatly my idea dosent help with that. I am just looking at the 'reward' for reaching 1750.

Go to an NPC in POK and interact with them. Tell him/her you are a [grandmaster of all tradeskills].

The game then checks this and the NPC then replys 'here is a symbol of your skill, so others will see you are a true GrandMaster.'

Reward.

Symbol of the GrandMaster Tradeskiller.
An Augment. with some pretty good, but not insane stats.
This way you can link the item you aug to proove to people you are what you say you are.
Also you get it on a hail in case you need to remove the aug, to either upgrade that equipment slot, or you need to move aug to another place.

[Anubsin]

the need to recode the "cap" the trophies right now are somewhat redundant as they do not do anything for a gm skiller the cha and int would be nice if these werent my primaries and when i first got it was useful but then i was able to max my primaries with the jewlery i was making, an epic gm trophy should make all trivial combines trivial not kinda trivial unless the components are expensive in which case youre sweating every click.
sorry im kinda disgruntled over their reply especially with some of the GoD combines still not working correctly or at all. It seems that the devs are all for doing anything that doesnt require them to actually do anything. thats my opinion

[byelka]

I was thinking how they could handle this grandmaster
trophy idea using the current game mechanics.

Here is my idea.


Put a guy in PoK who will give you some symbol
of Grandmaster Artisan if you have all 7 main
tradeskills at 250.

Take this symbol and combine it with the
7 grandmaster trophies in a forge.

The result is 2 items.


1st item)

Basically a clicky geerlok but it has 15% mod
(I know 252 is the max but at least 15% looks neat)

1st item Grandmaster geerlok hammer +15% to smithing
Click on it and it changes to
2nd item Grandmaster geerlok gem setter +15% to jewelcraft
Click on it and it changes to

Well you get the point and then of course it cycles through
again.

2nd item)

Grandmaster Workbench

Click on it and it summons a 100% 10 stot no rent
no drop bag. (similar to what we have now)

But it does one more thing...
The bag has a combine button.
Take the grandmaster geerlok gem setter place it in there
and hit combine and you get the geerlok back and a no rent
no drop item that is like the collapsable items but it
can summon a planar jewellers kit. This of course
would create items based on what grandmaster geerlok you
put in it. So for some skills like baking that have
several things used for combines it could return multiple
'collapsable' type items.


You get the idea.

They may argue that it not summon up a forge or brew barrel.
I would of course love for it to do this but so be it if
they decide not to this.

Also to add to this the combine in the workbench could also
create commonly used tools at the same time it returns the
collapsable items. ie smithing would return hammer and file,
Baking would return non-stick frying pan and dairy spoon. You
get the idea. Then make all the items it summons sell back
for 1 cP so there is no abuse of the system.

So what do you think?

-Byelka

[Shohanna]

reward for 1750

Reaching 1750 is a huge achievement, and for the time/commitment/plat put into it, it would not be unreasonable to get a reward that ANY 1750'er could obtain, not just the EP tradeskillers, and which we could proudly wear to show off. The GM trophies are nice but quickly outgrown once you get in a high-end raid guild.

I whole-heartedly agree. I will never see the places to be able to make the items that show my skill. This is tradeskilling we are talking about, not raiding. Why should we be penalized for doing what it is we do? Why can we NOT have an item that says our work is valued and apprieciated? I think this idea hits it right on the mark. Gives us a value in game. Something we can work for that is attainable to the non elemental flagged tradeskillers.

I love the idea of the toolbelt, adding the tools as we use them, making it so we can take the tool off would be awesome.

There are alot of great ideas in this thread. I just hope one of them makes it to the devs. Just being thought of makes me feel special.

Sho

[Durgaa]

If we are dreaming about possible effects - how about an effect that increases your ability to forage a rare item....or allows non foragers to forage? The number of hours I have spent in zones just to forage is mind boggling. In addition, this would be a really usefull effect for tradeskillers and it would have limited appeal for folks who are just looking to boost their stats.

[Yitara]

I like the idea of a super trophy benefiting all tradeskillers. I don't like the idea of making it have stats so nice it will drive EVERY temperary EP Aid Grimel only tradeskilling uber guildie type (you know what I mean here) decide that they need to push their skills from 220 up to 250 now to get this really great item. That will simply continue to destroy the whole concept of tradeskilling for tradeskilling's sake.

So, what is something that ALL tradeskillers would like to see? Its not more bags, more charisma, FT, etc., etc. etc. These vary too much from player to player. To me there are really only three things that all real tradeskillers would like to see an improvement in: An increased chance for success on non trivial items, a decreased chance of failure on trivial items and the ability to reduce the number of bank slots alloted to "tools".

The chance of success is of course related to the skill level. Alas, the devs seem to think that 252 is the max skill level obtainable and its not worth the programming effort to allow this cap to be broken. Too bad, because this would allow them to put in nicer and nicer items that have higher and higher skill requirements and create a goal for people to continue to improve their trade skill ability. If I were a dev I would be thinking of ways to get people to put more time into the game. But, I can see where this is not a trivial programming issue and benefits so few people so move on, probably ain't gunna happen.

Decreasing the failure rate on trivial items would also be a boon to true tradeskillers and one that corrects what I think is a horrible injustice. If I have perfected my skill to the point where I can achieve a super trade skill trophy, why do I still fail 5% of the time on the most trivial of items. Do I fall off my bike 5% of the time? No, of course not, riding a bike is TRIVIAL to me now. I actually think this should be corrected somehow for tradeskillers of all abilities, but in particular those that have reached 250 in skill. And why is this such a difficult thing to program? Wouldn't it just be one more variable to program into the formula for success or failure? I don't buy the argument that this can't be improved on and I think from a reward versus effort from devs, something that I think should really be pushed by us the players. Personally, I think if someone is 100 points over the trivial point of an item it should be a no fail combine. I guess I would like a better explanation of why something like this couldn't be implemented on a super trophy, "reduces the chance of failure on trivial combines by x%" or some such.

Finally, clear up that much needed bank space. The least a super trophey should do is allow one to trade in seven tropies giving the 5% mod for each trade skill. I suppose giving 1.5 to 2 times the stats is nice, but, like I said above, don't go overboard and make people drool over it.

I like the tool belt idea as well, but that sounds like a major programming effort and really something that only makes sense if they are going to be available for all tradeskillers, like the key ring is available to everyone right now. I think that idea is golden and should be worked on regardless of the Supertrophy idea. I mean, the name of the game is to make people want to play EQ, and making trade skilling more enjoyable does that. Remember people, its not just what we want that the devs are willing to work on, its things we want that will make us play EQ more and longer.

Finally, why does it need to be tied to getting 250 in each skill? One can make an individual trophy now at less than 250 and with the 5% mod that actually makes sense to try it at 240. It seems much easier for the devs to code if all they have to do is create a quest bag where you turn in your seven trophies in exchange for the Super Trophy. Yes, I know this diminishes the recognition of those that have gone on to hit the 1750 club, but as mentioned above, special recognition for that achievement is intentionally not being recognized. I think the people who have trudged on to 250 in each skill know how special they are.

[Kieroth_whiteleaf]

Quick commentary on failures:

The current failure system is not capped at 5% - if your skill is significantly higher than the trivial (I don't know the exact number, I *THINK* I heard 100, but that may or may not have been from a dev type) your failure odds drop.

This has been verified by people - 200+ skill people attempting metal bits, heady kiolas, etc have been responding that the success rate seems to go up.

I do heady kiolas in batches of 80 (giving one stack's worth of wu's attempts) and typically fail on only one, SOMETIMES two. This has been relatively consistent, so I don't think it's just the RNG being nice to me. Other people have reported similar things. My brewing skill is right now is ~140. It's not the 0 failures that the equation would create, but it's definitely better than the 5% that it used to be.

Regarding the upper end trophy - *MY* personal opinion on this is that I'm not getting worked up one way or the other. I'd *REALLY* like a mechanism to dump my 5 or so smithing hammers, collection of needles, baking implements and geerloks. But I also think that the ability to dump those things to a "keyring" should be available to EVERYONE, not *JUST* 1750 people.

*MY* reward for being "uber" in tradeskills (not that I'm there, but I'm getting closer) is:
* The ability to make **** near anything I want with reasonable odds of success
* The availability of quests (coldain, AG, solstice) that aren't otherwise available to me
* The ability to make a profit off items I make without having to be in a raiding guild

I'm a tradeskiller. You ask anyone in my guild what the most important thing for me in everquest is, and the first answer you'll hear is "my guild", the second one is "smithing". Usually the two go together - as I'm usually the one equipping the characters that I think are underequipped for their level. It's not uncommon for me to dump a class appropriate suit of LDoN plate or chain on someone just to get them up to "decent". Dark Elf cultural for the people that can use it.

I also happen to be ~240 in all weapon skills. As in *all* of them. I don't get a trophy for that. I have all of my combat skills maxxed except throwing and bash. I have swim, at, and bind wounds maxxed. I have 100 in all languages - not that that's an accomplishment, with the right group it takes 10-15 minutes.

The thing is, for NONE of those skills do you get any kind of recognition, ability or cool identifier for just having raised it. In casting, my cleric doesn't get anything special for her abjuration at 220 except for the ability to cast temp without draining her mana bar on fizzles.

I find it really interesting how many people post on here like they've sacrificed the whole rest of the game for the sake of tradeskills because they *LOVE* tradeskills, but then turn around and demand some supercool item/quest/etc to reward their skill. As far as I know, Aid Grimel is the ONLY quest that requires a certain level of skill to do - Tradeskilling or otherwise. There's no quests that can only be done with a skill of 200 in swimming. Or 1H slash.

There's complaints that a character can't make planar quality items because they can't get into the planes at their level, so they can't advance beyond "X" skill at their level.

But really, they're lucky - At level 1, a person *CAN* (not likely, but possible) jump into the 1750 club. And they're still stuck at 10 in 1hs.

I've put a lot of time into my 1hand Blunt skill. I've had to level all the way up to level 57 just to hit 240. And I can't think about 245 until level 58.

*I* think the "coolness"/"uberness" of the trophy should depend on the following factor, and ONLY the following factor:
* The cost/difficulty involved in the components

That factor is keeping in mind that depending on skill level, a hypothetical trophy should be based around the AVERAGE number of components to finish it, NOT just the number of a "first try success".

If it requires a drop off quarm, I'm okay with that. But the **** thing better be VERY cool.

If it requires a snake egg and nothing else, I don't care how bad it sucks, regardless of trivial level, because the stupid things are so easy to get - they just require some time. Obviously, an intelligent dev would put it somewhere between.

I'm all for recognition. But I feel like this community makes a distinction between tradeskillers and raiders like there's some mystic line that separates the two. If a person has a 250 in their weapon skill, I can safely assume that they've at least put some time in on the autoattack. A person in 1750 club DOESN'T necessarily mean they're a "tradeskiller" as defined by what appears to be the majority of this board - the only assumptions one can make are that they somehow acquired a large number of components, they did some minimal amount of research on how to skill up, and that they spent a snotload of time clicking combine.

I have probably spent more time developing my weapon skills than most of the GM tradeskillers have spent on their craft - yes, it's just mashing autoattack, but tradeskills are just clicking combine. Wait you say - tradeskilling also requires farming, research and time... but wait.. so does leveling to 57 and staying alive in zones where mobs aggro if you get within 3 miles of them while dodging characters who were obviously an impulse buy on Ebay. I'm not trying to belittle anyone, but it frustrates me that many (*NOT* ALL) of the "tradeskillers" think of this as some private club that requires a secret handshake and raiders can't join.

People like Niami, Verdandi, Kizrak (sp?) and Zeralynn I definitely consider tradeskillers - not only have they put in the time to level their skills, but they have also done a surprising amount of research and *KNOW* their skills better than most raiders know Vex Thal.

That isn't anything to do with their tradeskill levels. Zeralynn's magelo last time I looked at it was sub-250 in a few things, and despite the fact that she's like the world's expert on smithing she's not even 250 in it yet. And I mean it, she *IS* the world's expert. I truly believe she knows more on the subject than most of the devs who work on smithing. Her reward for that is more than just some trophy - it's the fact that she knows everything about her craft and she can do anything with it now - she knows which combines are profitable, where/when/how to sell them, market values, trivial levels, success odds, and a host of other things - the same way us dumb raiders know mob hitpoints, aggro ranges, weaknesses and the best time to pop a cheal. Which in MY opinion is worth more than any conceivable stats/abilities of some stupid trophy you could program a bot to make.

So like people have said earlier (but don't always seem to actually *mean*) - the reward is in the activity itself.

Many people have said that the tradeskill trophy shouldn't be available to "just anyone". Those same people argue against aid grimel, because it's not fair to tradeskillers to make them jump through the hoop that is flagging.

Obviously, the earring is something worth jumping through hoops for - Some of those raiders feel the same way about tradeskills that tradeskillers feel about xp grinds and raiding guilds - but *THEY* put in the effort in an area they didn't like to get a reward they wanted. We have the same options.

I'm not in a raiding guild, despite the fact I enjoy raiding. I've been invited into no less than 10. If I *WANTED*, I could be 65 with a hundred aa's and ornate level gear in a few weeks. But I totter along in tradeskills, look longingly at the AG earring and think "someday I'll make it there", because I'm enjoying the tradeskilling and occasional raiding with a guild I love more than committing my character to 5-7 nights a week of raiding. That's my choice. I'm not going to knock anyone else for making theirs. Those same raiding guilds could get me up to 1750 practically overnight, but I'd rather make the journey with the friends I've made in my guild instead.

If it's fun for you, do it. If it's not, don't. If the reward seems appropriate for the work, do it. If it doesn't, don't.

If you don't think the 1750 club is appropriately recognized, DON'T WORK FOR IT. I'm going to. Not because I want to be part of the "elite club" - because I think we're putting way too much emphasis on a number - but because I want the *benefits* of having my skill up that high.

We don't *NEED* an uber-trophy. I'm not going to turn one down, because I do think it'd be cool. I just don't understand the focus on it. I would *MUCH* prefer viable recipes for gear that is competitive with drops that require the same amount of work to get - it's embarassing that my greaves of the myrmidon only took 4 drops and have 40 ac when my dark elf cultural that requires blue diamonds, snotloads of farming and 200+ skill to be viable and still has less benefits. I don't want to run around with a trophy and a big sign saying "I'm a tradeskiller and I'm cool because I have carpal tunnel". I want something WORTH MAKING. Worth making for *ME* means "raid capable". Both so I have potential buyers, and because I LIKE raiding.

*MY* vote for the devs:

*Screw the supertrophy.
*Close the gaps in cultural and give us something competitive to make at higher levels.
*Give us some weapons and armor, with a respectable drop rate for it's difficulty/uberness. Make it competitive with whatever similarly leveled raiders can get for similar difficulty. Include appropriate stat bonuses. Int items at higher levels should still have str/sta/dex type bonuses, if not as many. STR items should have a token nod to int/wis/cha.
*Class specific stuff. LDoN plate is pretty nifty for a SK/Cleric because the int/wis bonuses are nice, and the ac isn't that much lower than what is normally class available. But for a warrior, it sucks compared to comparable drop/quested gear.
*Smooth out the "hell levels" in skillups (190 - 210{?}) - One shouldn't have runs of 100 failures even if the RNG is being whacked out. Cap failure chains at like 50 or something. That's not pandering to the lowest denominator, it's common sense. If you want to know how to code it, give me a call. Four lines of code.
*Proc/focus effects. Augs are a nice start. I'm even okay with just limiting it to augs, although it'd be nice if it were innate to the item. Let's face it: what caster wants tailored armor when you can't put any kind of focus effect on it?
*Stop with the bloody items that require forages or only drop 1 in a million in a skillup path. My 57 warrior relies on my 23 ranger for drops in LDoN to get to 212, because I don't have the financial backing for anything better. If it's a skill all classes can use, they need to be provided a mechanism to increase it.
*Make more of the drops have a favorable (balanced of course.. I'm not asking for handouts) drop rate on mobs which are an appropriate level for the relative skill level. It seems funny that if you match skill levels, a person OUGHT to hit the 200s around 40th level, at which point things like shadowscream start turning green. Make mobs useful in the creation of 200+ items *DARK BLUE*. At least give us SOME XP in our mindless farming.
*In skills that require low level drops in order to advance (leather padding, silk thread, etc) give us a higher level option. Sure, it'll take longer to rack them up since we can't just aoe the crap outta whole camps, but at least we get some xp (and slows up our farming rate). At this point I'm okay with a little bit of nonsense (LDoN mobs dropping spiderling silk) just to make it viable. Maybe then our friends won't mind hunting with us so much (My guild is *wonderful*, but there's only so long our 65 mage is willing to help me farm hoppers).

THOSE would be worth hundreds of times more value to me than any stats you could stick on the ubertrophy.

SFG

[Bolas]

I thought of the same kind of thing -- something that requires all seven tradeskill trophies for the combine. I don't think there would be a problem "creating demand" for this trophy, I think those that master all seven would want to do this out of pride.

I'd like to see it as a skill-restricted combine of all seven GM trophies, where you have to be skill 1750 to do the combine.

I"d like to see it end up as something that would have superior stats such that it would be worth equipping in the range slot instead of, say... Secrets of the Planes. In other words... 250 hp/mana, 20 all resists, 40 ac, some nice effects.

Yes it would be delightful to have it be +10% to all skills and have them exceed the cap, but this isn't likely.

Another idea that occurred to me would be to combine all seven tradeskill trophies with some OTHER quest items -- combine them with the aid grimel earring and/or the coldain prayer shawl to make an item wearable in primary, secondary, range, ammo, shoulders, and/or ear slots. Heck let them combine the seven with "mana crystals" from the phylactery quest, at least those would have a use then.

Let those that reach 1750 have an additional trophy from combining all seven tradeskill trophies with aid grimel earring. Having to do aid grimel will prevent people from doing the combine on lowbies or twinks. And requiring skill 1750 to do the no-fail combine will mean that they have to have spent the aa's, also a min level check.

Another possibility woudl be to allow combining with an eighth trophy -- poison or alchemy or tinkering or whatever -- to make a version specifically tailored for that class/race's stuff.

With that in mind, it would be great to see an item that has the end results of a range slot (or ear or wherever) that is equivalent to loot dropping in Uqua. Here's what I see:

Legendary Grandmaster Trophy
Ear / Range
35 AC
25 all stats
25 all resists
225 hp/mana
+10% all tradeskills
mana regen +5
focus effect: Zeburoxor's Preservation (25% mana cost reduction all spells)
effect: summon Nutsack
regen +10
attack +35
effect:
slot 1: type 8 aug

Nutsack
100% weight reduction
Giant size
NODROP
non-LORE

Given that there are from 1 to 6 people per server at the moment that could make this item, it would not break the game, but would provide a nice boost in stats and status to those that have put in the work to do this.

Another way to make the ultimate GM trophy desireable is to make it have an instacast buff that is useable from inventory. This would make it great for pvp and so on. Something like +5 mana/tick +5 hp/tick. Like an upgraded phylactery effect. Self-only, stacks with everything.

-Bolas

[Bolas]

OMG I just thought of the perfect effect for the GM tradeskill trophy!!!

Make it such that with the multi-GM tradeskill trophy, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to fail ANY trivial combine!!! That would rock, thanks.

-Bolas

[kiztent]

Bolas: consider changing the name of the container you are suggesting.

Kieroth: brilliant post. Plus no one can praise Zera (among others) too much for the work she's put into tradeskilling for tradeskillers, not herself.