Fan Faire Write-up, Part 2: Tradeskill Super-Trophies

[Tingteng]

Possible Stats for melee version:
Str +20
Sta +20
Dex +10
Agi +10
Cha +50
All Resists +10
HP Regen +3
Summon WR Bag

You forget that many melee get the trophies for the wis/int

[reolin spellbynder]

Another idea for a super trophy

People have pointed out that their old trophies are mostly useless and

have retired them to their banks because the equippable slots are filled with

better things. I propose that the super trophy is not a trophy at all but a

combine which results in an AUGMENT with the stats and effects of a single

original trophy. Pick your choice of +skill (or decreased chance of failure ) by the container you combine it

inside. (Just struck me that this wouldnt work for JC since the biggest kit is

only 6 slots ) I personally find the ability to summon no-rent bags

useful in a pinch. I also think having the extra Str Int Char is not out of line

since I put a heckuvalot of effort into getting to that level of skill. Added

benefit of never wondering 'Now where in the heck did I put that darn

trophy?' Anyway, that is my idea and I invite you to critisize it or say 'OMG that would rock!'

Reolin Spellbynder

signaturally challenged 65 enchanter of Saryrn

[reolin spellbynder]

Except some recipies are different depending on implement. Not common ones, but there are a few.

But with the new UI you pick the end product and the UI would then have to determine if you had that tool on your 'belt'

[Maevenniia]

It's a pity there's no /toolbelt command where tools get flagged like keys do to your keyring. Would be nice to be able to buy that one commonly used cheap tool, /toolbelt it to have it consumed but added to your belt and then instead of checking just your inventory on combines it would also check your toolbelt.

That's brilliant!

And yes - the point of asking for a multitool is to save space. Baking is definitely the worst space hog of all the skills, so even if they just did it for baking it would help A LOT.

But the /toolbelt idea...I love it! Plus, cultural tools could be "belt-able" whereas i an actual item or kit was created, cultural tools would probably not be included in said item/kit.

Ps: it might also be less complex to code. Use code from the already existing /keyring to create the /toolbelt. Then, instead of modifying or adding recipes to include new tools, modify the check at the combine level to add a check for the required tool on the /toolbelt as well as the tradeskiller’s inventory.

[JMorgana]

Personally, I LOVE the idea of a /toolbelt command, or even better, something like the keyring setup where the minute you use a tool not already on your toolbelt it automatically adds it and displays a message stating just that. This is by FAR my favorite idea in this thread and it doesn't even directly relate to the super-trophy concept.

[Meryddian]

Ok first off - about tradeskill thingies (already in game or not) summoning bags - I have bags out the yin-yang. Tink bags are 5k, there's all kinds of WR bags that either drop or are tailor-made now (haversacks, GoD bags etc) - not to mention I already have 7 trophies in my bag that summon bags - so the idea of something that summons another bag just does not do a single thing for me at all. Why does a tradeskill trophy have to DO anything like summon a bag or tools? Think about it: in real life, trophies are simply things that sit on your bookcase/mantle/whatever and look pretty.

However, that being said.............. Becoming a non-modified 1750 takes a TREMENDOUS effort and commitment from a player. Even with the new UI, there is just simply a huge, huge, HUGE timesink (and moneysink) required to farm the materials and do all the thousands and thousands of combines necessary to reach that skill level. (There IS a reason that you cannot buy all the materials to get 250 in each tradeskill from vendors).

This brings us to the stats on the super-trophy. Maddoc seemed to be happy with doubling the stats on a normal trophy, which currently has STR: +10 CHA: +50 WIS: +10 INT: +10. I would personally be much happier if the super-trophy also added something to all stats, plus some HP, mana, and resists. That would make it more attractive to players of all classes, and more likely to be equipped all the time.

Now, the Aid Grimel quest yields the following:

Signet of the Arcane (casters/priests)
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: EAR
AC: 25
STR: +25 DEX: +25 STA: +25 WIS: +25 INT: +25 AGI: +25 HP: +130 MANA: +150
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15
Mana Regeneration: +3
Focus: Preservation of Xegony

Signet of Might (hybrid/melees)
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: EAR
AC: 25
Skill Mod: Dodge +8%
STR: +25 DEX: +25 STA: +25 WIS: +25 INT: +25 AGI: +25 HP: +145 MANA: +130 ENDUR: +130
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +15 SV POISON: +15
Attack: +30
Regeneration: +3

A couple things need to be pointed out.

1) You need to be at least level 51 to do the Aid Grimel quest, because you need to spend AA's to get it and therefore you need to be of a level to earn AA's.

2) You need to be Elemental flagged, or at least have real nice friends who are willing to help get you into the EPs to loot a Hope Stone. (not to mention all the flags you need before that)

Which means, if you're 51+ and non-EP, you might be able to get yourself one of the lower-level earrings in the AG quest, but otherwise, at best, you only have the tradeskill trophies - which, if you're lucky, you can manage to combine at levels far below 250.

So basically, right now, the BEST reward(s) in the game for the time/energy/cost involved in becoming a 1750 are limited to those who are EP flagged - and while granted that % of the population is growing, how many mains who are under 65 do you know who are?

Also let's point out the following item which is the result of a "quest", the only part of the "quest" being that you loot the essence off AHR in VT and turn it in to some guy in Umbral. No skill required whatsoever to get what is if not the best, then one of the best, neck items in the game:

Talisman of Vah Kerrath
LORE ITEM MAGIC ITEM NO DROP
Weight: 0.4 Size: TINY
Slot: NECK
Effect: Blessing of Kerrath: Ultravision
Mana Regeneration: +8
Attack: +20
Regeneration: +8
Damage Shield: +8
AC: +35 Str: +15 Dex: +15 Sta: +15 Cha: +15 Wis: +15 Int: +15 Agi: +15 Fire Resist: +20 Disease Resist: +20 Cold Resist: +20 Magic Resist: +20 Poison Resist: +20 HP: +125 Mana: +125
Classes: All Classes
Races: All Races

Personally, I would LOVE to see something like the following:

There would be an NPC in POK who will talk to you only after you have 250 in all 7 skills. "Hail and well met, _name_. I see that you have been very busy indeed in your spare time, a most hardworking _race_, indeed! We here in New Tanaan appreciate scholars and artists of all kinds, and somebody of your skill is highly valued indeed. I have been granted a token with which to reward those of your skills, would you be [interested]?"

You say, "I am interested."

"Wonderful, wonderful, I thought you might be! Well, I need you to do something for me first. It should be quite easy for somebody of your talent! Here is a display stand. I need you to attach each of your Grandmaster trophies to it in a sensible but pleasing manner, and then return it to me. Then I may grant you your reward."

You receive "A Display Stand" (yellow idol graphic). Item LORE, NODROP. You take all your GM trophies, and like the Breakdown in Communication Quest, need to keep combining them together - in this case, the "sensible but pleasing manner" would be in alphabetical order - baking, brewing, fletching, jewelcraft, pottery, smithing, tailoring - in the correct tradeskill container. Each combine would yield a slightly different version of the Display Stand. So combine GM baker spoon + display stand in an oven, then that result + GM brewmaster in a brew barrel, etc. The combine can only be made with 250 of a given skill, and is failable (however your previous display stand would be returned on failure). On the last combine (tailoring) it would yield "A Filled Display Stand," which you would turn into the NPC.

"Fantastic! Your skills are remarkable indeed. May we extend our congratulations on a job well done, and award you with this trophy to let everybody see your talents."

Reward would be of course LORE/NODROP - "Talisman of the Grandmaster Tanaan Craftsman" - and either:

- a multi-slot piece of equipment that would fit in EAR, FINGER, NECK or HANDS and is directly on par with Aid Grimel reward/Talisman of Vah Kerrath, with 5% dodge and then something like FT3/regen 3 or maybe a stackable click effect that adds something.

OR

- an augment that can be put in any # slot, on any piece of equipment, and add like +10 all stats/resists +100m/hp/end


Reaching 1750 is a huge achievement, and for the time/commitment/plat put into it, it would not be unreasonable to get a reward that ANY 1750'er could obtain, not just the EP tradeskillers, and which we could proudly wear to show off. The GM trophies are nice but quickly outgrown once you get in a high-end raid guild.

[Koru]

I was thinking about the /toolbelt idea some more last night and saw a problem in that for experimenting to get the new UI you would need the actual item. So I thought what would work for that would be a /detach command to remove the item from the toolbelt. Like say you have a dairy spoon, smithy hammer, and corking device and you want to experiment to get a new brewing recipe on your fast list, or are making one that isn't added to the learned list. So you do /toolbox to get a list of your tools, then /detatch corking device to remove the corking device from your belt (hench no summoning unlimited corking devices from it) to your cursor until you /toolbox it again.

The reason I would prefer something like that is that it would mean 1 tool stays 1 tool through out the process, the only difference becomes whether it's in your inventory or flagged to you at the moment. That way there wouldn't be a need to put in any new tools for recipes as with a summoned version, or adjusting vendor buy prices on a tool to avoid mass summoning and selling tools. Of course it may not be even remotely possible to do, but I figure with a full board pitching ideas eventually we'll find something that may help the devs.

[AnnaaDruid]

I really do not like seeing all this 'elementally flagged people are not real tradeskillers' sentiment.

I never said that, or even implied it. I said that I, personally, didn't have the time to do both. What I would like to prevent is another situation, like the Grimel quest, where a really nice tradeskill item is unavailable to someone who, although a master of all trades, is unable to acquire it because of flag restrictions. Imagine if the tradeskill trophies or the coldain shawl required EP drops...

[ColdHeart]

I do like Meryddian's idea but for one major thing.

Both the Aid Grimel earing and the VT Quest require high lvl mobs killed, either for the flags or the drop. I do not think the 7 trophy reward should be on par unless some other requirement is made. Yes you need to spend 18 AA's to reach 250 in all skills, but is this enough as anyone can do this given time exping.

I would also argue that the "Talisman of Vah Kerrath" quest is killing the AHR (What ever that is). The hand in just delays getting the "drop". You cannot eaily use this as an arguement to make the 7 trophy reward on par as you don't need to kill any type of raid mob. (I am assuming the AHR is a raid target, please correct me if I am wrong).

Next, trophies are already expensive to make if you fail. Giving them another failable combine just adds to the expense. Then all you are doing is adding Plat to the "difficulty" of getting this item. I can easily make money, I can't easily get flagged/ kill raid targets. So again it doesn't truely add to the difficulty of getting this item.

I do like the idea that it could be more of a useable item, I don't think we can expect anything like the AG earing or the AHR Neck item without similar risk and effort involved.

The GM trophies are nice but quickly outgrown once you get in a high-end raid guild.

Yes, that is because the effort of raiding is generally considered harder than tradeskilling. Killing high end raid mobs quires a guild, time and tactics. TS's require time and money. While I'd love something I can use into the end game I don't think we can expect it by maxing out 7 tradeskills.

[kiztent]

I would also argue that the "Talisman of Vah Kerrath" quest is killing the AHR (What ever that is). The hand in just delays getting the "drop". You cannot eaily use this as an arguement to make the 7 trophy reward on par as you don't need to kill any type of raid mob. (I am assuming the AHR is a raid target, please correct me if I am wrong).

AHR is Aten Ha Ra, the boss of Vex Thal, which is the final zone in Luclin. Killing her is about the same as killing Quarm or The Avatar of War for their respective expansions. Except Vex Thal is a dreadfully boring raid zone.

[Tudani]

The Talisman of Vah Kerrath shouldn't be compared to AG earring or anything in tradeskills. It's much like the heads from the velious era (such as to get the white dragonscale helm). The Talisman is bascially a drop from AHR, the only reason it's done the way it is is storyline driven (and to make people do some faction work after obtaining the essence). The AG earring is as good as it is because it requires flags, you are in a sense getting rewarded not just for your tradeskilling, but also for getting flagging done.

For me, the biggest reason to want a super trophy is to save room in my bank/bags. To that end, I like the idea of combining the super trophy in it's respective container for a lore/no drop/no rent item with a 5% mod. Make it the same stats as a normal trophy (so people don't have to lose stats to skill), same slot restrictions. As for the super trophy itself, I liked the idea of having it summon no drop 10 slot giant 100% WR bags that are rentable, would be very nice and helpfull on farming trips to have something that did that. Stat wise, I don't care if you give it the same stats as the current one, but, I think it should have a unique graphic so that it actually looks like a trophy, maybe a pretty particle effect too.

Love the idea of the /toolbelt. I'd have bank room again with that!!!! However, is it possible that instead of /detach that a recipe would just check your toolbelt for the impliment even if it's done in experiment mode? If that's not possible I'd say just don't make tools going to the toolbelt automatic, make a command for it, such as holding the item in your hand and doing /attach toolbelt or something.

[KyrosKrane]

What if the bags from the super trophy also acted as coin purses, giving, say, 100% coin weight reduction?

I think 100% coin WR might be too much, though, as the best purse I could find was 10-slot, 90% WR, 90% coin WR, wt. 0.1.

Maybe 75% coin weight reduction?

[Lickity]

This would be an awesome idea. None of this super item stuff. Standard trophy stats, a neat name for a job well done, and it can summon a new bag, originally NO RENT, you turn into the same gnome in the bazaar, and he gives you a 10 slot giant bag with COIN WR. This way, even if you don't equip the bag because of the weak stats, you still have something you can say is valuable, as the only decent WR Bag outside of GoD is dropped off Yelniak, who is seldom raided. Asking for something that summons several items in some form is too much, but a Coin bag would be very inline roleplay wise with a tradeskiller, would be valuable mostly to a tradeskiller, and because of the lack of statistical advantage, it would not put tradeskillers out of balance with other players.

One more thing I thought of, this bag would not attract nearly as many people for 'tradeskilling for stats" like what happened with AG. This bag is really only useful considering the time/money/dedication to someone who liked tradeskilling. GREAT IDEA

EDIT: As a side note, I do not think it would be terribly unbalanced to give 90% or even 100% WR to coin, no one will be soloing Quarm just because they can carry 1mpp into battle.

[Fin]

All the trophies have the same stats, summon the same WR bags, but just differ on the skill it has a skill modifier for.

Why not make it possible to combine multiple trophies into 1, and there-by increasing the skill effect for those skills? This would be an incentive for us to work towards more skills, and there is actually a reward. Currently, there is not a real need to get a second trophy or 3rd, especially when you can get a geerlok for the same effect, the extra trophies are for bragging rights only.

Let's say we have:

1 trophy = 5% mod to skill
2 trophies combined = 6% mod to those 2 skills
3 trophies combined = 7% mod to those 3 skills
4 trophies combined = 8% mod to those 4 skills
5 trophies combined = 9% mod to those 5 skills
6 trophies combined = 10% mod to those 6 skills
7 trophies combined = 11% mod to those 7 skills

and so on... for the tinkering, alchemy and poison making skills too.

It's just an idea, I'm sure it will get shot down.

-Fin

[aruvqan]

Now, the Aid Grimel quest yields the following:
A couple things need to be pointed out.
1) You need to be at least level 51 to do the Aid Grimel quest, because you need to spend AA's to get it and therefore you need to be of a level to earn AA's.
2) You need to be Elemental flagged, or at least have real nice friends who are willing to help get you into the EPs to loot a Hope Stone. (not to mention all the flags you need before that)
Which means, if you're 51+ and non-EP, you might be able to get yourself one of the lower-level earrings in the AG quest, but otherwise, at best, you only have the tradeskill trophies - which, if you're lucky, you can manage to combine at levels far below 250.
So basically, right now, the BEST reward(s) in the game for the time/energy/cost involved in becoming a 1750 are limited to those who are EP flagged - and while granted that % of the population is growing, how many mains who are under 65 do you know who are?

And where I cant speak for anybody mut myself, I will *NEVER* be elementally flagged, and there are a lot of things I will *NEVER* be able to make because the guilds have a lock on the planar ingredients needed.

I will *never* join a raid guild, I value my lower level NONRAIDING friends more than I am willing to drop whatever commitments I PERSONALLY make to be with my friends to be at the beck and call of an uber guild. I will *never* go on raids with guild friends because to be blunt about it, I dont get any xp, i dont get any drops, there is absolutely NO benefit for me to go up and risk anything to be a CH ho. I will therefore *never* be flagged for anything. if I cant farm an ingredient with a single group, it ain't happening. I am all of 56th level, which means I *might* possibly be able to make a ceramic gavel of justice, ceramic hammer of innovation, ceramic skull of decay or a ceramic rod of storms, provided I can get the group together for it.

As a wild example, I happen to have 2 each fire mephit blood and fiery granite. On Sol Ro, in bazaar I found 1 single solidified magma for 30K pp on a guild trade mule. I have 2 war wraith bloods, but the living coal was 22k pp. i have 4 large shards of stone, metallic liquids are selling for about 4.5 k if you get lucky... I am not uber enough to be able to throw around my plat...I got all my planar goodies by vendor diving late saturday nights after raids are done. I am effectively cut out from making anything past faith/spirit stones that makes plat, simply because the game is rigged for people to need to join raiding guilds, or have serious plat that can afford to contact uber guilds and negotiate for tradeskill items. FWIW, I have a complete list of the ingredients for all the ceramic toys, and how many of what I have managed to scrounge up. I keep looking for any goodies i can find AND afford. I really wish they would take us nonraidguilded scum into account when they make recipes.