Fan Faire Write-up, Part 2: Tradeskill Super-Trophies

[Cubwynn]

Problem with that idea is it'll create hundreds of new recipes (hence a more work for devs) for just a very small population of players.

Ain't gonna happen.

[Jarak_akn]

No I think what he is suggesting is to make a file you have the normal recipy or

In a forge :
Multitool + Metal bits + something that costs some pp

So it would just be one new recipy for each tool.

Provided the recipy was almost the same for all tools you could carry a stack of the "costs pp" item and make the tools as you need them.

Not a bad idea, but not exactly a solution either.

[kiztent]

In a forge :
Multitool + Metal bits + something that costs some pp

So it would just be one new recipy for each tool.

Provided the recipy was almost the same for all tools you could carry a stack of the "costs pp" item and make the tools as you need them.

Not a bad idea, but not exactly a solution either.

If you needed to make different tools, how is that different from making or buying the tool you need when you need it? I know I've made a lot of baking implements because someone.... borrowed one and I need a pot. So I grab some molds and make a pot and bake. If you skill in PoK everything is there, so no savings to use a multi-tool like you suggest.

[Lickity]

Perhaps a simpler thing for these to do is to summon a "collapsible kit," like the tinkered items do. This would require no heartache on the part of the devs, as the bags already exist, and it would allow us all to start cleaning bank space.

hehe, on an unrealistic note, wouldn't be nice if the super trophies allowed us to play chanter and had clickable "Clarify Mana" on the pottery one =).

/chanterrant on hehe

[Maevenniia]

If you needed to make different tools, how is that different from making or buying the tool you need when you need it? I know I've made a lot of baking implements because someone.... borrowed one and I need a pot. So I grab some molds and make a pot and bake. If you skill in PoK everything is there, so no savings to use a multi-tool like you suggest.

totally agree with kiztent, the point here is to SAVE SPACE, lol

[KyrosKrane]

If the idea is just to conserve bag space, how about this?

Designate up to ten tools for one tradeskill as the kit. The selection of tools is hard-coded and cannot be changed by the players in-game.

You obtain these items normally (i.e., buy them or make them). In a toolbox, combine all the items and get back a "portable workbench" token, or a "portable kitchen kit" token, or whatever. You can right-click the token to summon the original tools, consuming the token in the process.

This solution would save on bank storage space, and it would make it easier to carry your kit along with you. If the token-creating combine is doable in a collapsible toolkit, you can even re-compress the items on the road. In one deluxe or collapsible toolkit, you could carry up to ten tradeskill kits -- or nine kits and a collapsible toolkit, if you prefer. You break them out and combine them back as needed. Since the tokens cannot be made without actually having the items beforehand, there's no risk of free plat. You could even sell the toolkits in the bazaar.

I'm not sure how this could be tied to the super-trophy, though. Maybe require the super-trophy to be part of the combine to make the token? (The super-trophy would be returned with the token, of course.)

On the other hand, I think this idea could stand alone -- tie this to the normal trophies instead. People have been clamoring for some extra incentive to make the various trophies; this could be it. Place up to nine tools and the matching trophy in a toolkit, combine, and get back the trophy and the portable kit token.

[kiztent]

If the idea is just to conserve bag space, how about this?

The problem is no body knows what the idea is. This is just people throwing around half... baked ideas that "would be cool" without thinking about what it really means at all, either from a server/programming perspective or a player perspective.

Which is why I think these super trophy or multi tool discussions are ill conceived at best.

[Carnilion]

If you needed to make different tools, how is that different from making or buying the tool you need when you need it? I know I've made a lot of baking implements because someone.... borrowed one and I need a pot. So I grab some molds and make a pot and bake. If you skill in PoK everything is there, so no savings to use a multi-tool like you suggest.

The only difference is that instead of trying to find all of the ingredients and dealing with subcombines, you would know that all you need is water, a celestial essence and possibly one other (easily obtainable) item. I admit that my suggestion could be a little too complicated to make it worthwhile, though I think it would be better than nothing.

I like KyrosKrane's suggestion for the simplicity of it. I would be interested to get a count of the "common" tools needed for each tradeskill to see if the limit of 9 or 10 would be very restrictive. The only concern I have for the Toolbox method is that if you wanted one tool, you would have to sacrifice an inventory slot for the toolbox while you were doing your combines. You can't destroy anything to make room because you will need it again to collapse the toolbox.

I like the idea though, and I think it would be better than what we have now. Especially for when we aren't tradeskillin'.

[kiztent]

The only difference is that instead of trying to find all of the ingredients and dealing with subcombines, you would know that all you need is water, a celestial essence and possibly one other (easily obtainable) item. I admit that my suggestion could be a little too complicated to make it worthwhile, though I think it would be better than nothing.

I know where all the vendors are for the tools I need in pok, either to buy them or make them. If I don't remember quickly, I can check the site here.

Unless... are you suggesting that there be a vendor for the multi-tool base components? In which case, I'd say no.

I like KyrosKrane's suggestion for the simplicity of it. I would be interested to get a count of the "common" tools needed for each tradeskill to see if the limit of 9 or 10 would be very restrictive. The only concern I have for the Toolbox method is that if you wanted one tool, you would have to sacrifice an inventory slot for the toolbox while you were doing your combines. You can't destroy anything to make room because you will need it again to collapse the toolbox.

Well... what about... corking devices? woks? crab crackers? shears?

I know I have more than 10 baking implements, there's 4 hammers (or 3 depending on race) for smithing plus a file. Outside of corking devices I can't think of anything for brewing, tailoring doesn't have any tools outside of shears (2), fletching's tools are consumed on success (and if you can summon those you ought to be able to summon em studded chains), pottery using sculpting tools and neither tinkering nor poison making have any tools.

Is it *really* worth developers time to make life easier for the people with 1750 skill that want to bake for profit? Both of them?

Maybe if they fixed the PoP temper requirement smiths would care about getting a new tanaan hammer. As it is now, we can't do PoP combines often enough anyway.

[Koru]

The only trade really problematic on tools for me is baking. Baking really is a toolhog, and most of the tools used in it are pretty cheap. Things like muffin tins, cake rounds, dairy spoon and so on. Perhaps it would be more useful to seperate baking tools into two categories: cheap commons and expensives.

I know I'd hardly consider a wok something I use a lot, not like the other items, so it's stored away on a mule until I need it. Same for crab crackers and frying pans. Although the frying pans are cheaper to replace. Dairy spoons I go through like socks, pots I make and lose as I go as well. Cake rounds I try to keep, but again a cheap easy one to replace if mine gets lost.

It's a pity there's no /toolbelt command where tools get flagged like keys do to your keyring. Would be nice to be able to buy that one commonly used cheap tool, /toolbelt it to have it consumed but added to your belt and then instead of checking just your inventory on combines it would also check your toolbelt.

[Taushar]

I know I have more than 10 baking implements, there's 4 hammers (or 3 depending on race) for smithing plus a file. Outside of corking devices I can't think of anything for brewing, tailoring doesn't have any tools outside of shears (2), fletching's tools are consumed on success (and if you can summon those you ought to be able to summon em studded chains), pottery using sculpting tools and neither tinkering nor poison making have any tools.

There are more tools than that. First of all, baking ones are more than 10. I just don't remember them all.

For smithing, there are 4 hammers (including one for High Elf), plus hammer and anvil for the Vah Shir smithing quest, Chistle and File.

For brewing Corking Device and Cyclops Skull are the only ones that I can think of.

For Tailoring, there are two shears, two needles (embroidery and tanaan embroidery), High Elf LoY needle (different one for each race) and I am pretty sure there are old cultural needles as well, like for Wood Elves and Halfling?

As for Fleching, there is a Planing Tool as well as Whittling Blade and Steel Working Knife. Fishbone Dart Tool is rarely used but still a tool.

Pottery indeed has Sculpting Tools.

These are what I can just think of off the top of my head. I am sure there are more. So, as a 1750 club member, almost 1/4 of my bank spaces are taken up by my tools for tradeskills. I am forced to create alts just to hold the tools and rare items I need to collect. Of course some of the items are no drop, like Vah Shir hammer/anvil, so I have to keep them on me. I am definitely in favor of reducing number of tools needed for tradeskills.

Taushar

[kiztent]

It's a pity there's no /toolbelt command where tools get flagged like keys do to your keyring. Would be nice to be able to buy that one commonly used cheap tool, /toolbelt it to have it consumed but added to your belt and then instead of checking just your inventory on combines it would also check your toolbelt.

Except some recipies are different depending on implement. Not common ones, but there are a few.

[AnnaaDruid]

I am very much against the idea of a super trophy requiring any items from the high end game. I am almost a 1750 tradeskillker (just need a few more points in smithing) and I did it because I love tradeskills, not because of things like the Grimel earring. Which, by the way, is an item I can't get, because I don't have the flags, because I prefer to spend my time tradeskilling rather than advancing through the planes. The super trophy should not be linked to how good your guild is. It should be about how dedicated you are to tradeskilling.

That said, we have to look at what benefits COULD come from the trophy. Skill mods wouldn't much help the people who can get the super trophy, we are already maxed. So, I like the idea of letting the trophy be a good piece of adventuring gear, to make up for the time that all of us spent in front of hot ovens, forges, kilns, etc instead of out adventuring and looting nice items.

It could be something along the lines of the Grimel earring, where you can get choices of a melee, caster, or hybrid version of the super trophy. All would have some resists and stats, with different effects for each version, like some mana regen for the caster version. Then, allow us to use it to get another permanent WR bag, and allow it to create an item that does have skills mods. Like combining it in a forge with a hammer to return a 10% mod no drop no rent hammer and the super trophy.

Possible stats for caster version:
Str +10
Sta + 10
Wis +20
Int +20
Cha +50
All Resists +10
Mana Regen 3
Summon WR Bag

Possible Stats for melee version:
Str +20
Sta +20
Dex +10
Agi +10
Cha +50
All Resists +10
HP Regen +3
Summon WR Bag

Possible Stats for Hybrid Version
Str +10
Sta +10
Agi +10
Dex +10
Int +10
Wis +10
Cha +50
All Resists +10
Attack +30
Summon WR Bag

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

The only thing I see useful in a super trophy so far that the Devs say can be implomented it the Norent, nodrop gearlok creation. I really do not like seeing all this 'elementally flagged people are not real tradeskillers' sentiment.

The stats aspect of the trophy other then being used as a real item, as opposed to a tool, IE the need for mana HP, is a bit off, if you are a 1750, or even a 1640 with the shears, an XTC hammer, and gearloks Stats for skilling up are not really an issue.

Dai

[ColdHeart]

Idea for Super Trophy.

Hail the guy in Bazaar for a container. Combine 7 trophies + [Celestial Master's Seal] for the Celestial Master's Trophy. Celestial Master's Seal is like the Grandmasters but needs Valorium/other type of metal/gems to make. Make it low Planar drops.

Now you have a nice stat item which summons No Drop 100% WR bags. Stats along the lines of:

STR +15
STA +10
DEX +15
AUG +10
INT/WIS +15
CHA +75
HP/Mana/End + 50
PR/DR/FR/CR +10
MR +15

Nice stats but not obscene.

Now in every TS Container add 8 recipes. This will either combine a trophy into that container's TS Specific trophy (with +5% mod) or the TS Specific trophy into the basic one. TS Specific may have less stats but more specific for that tradeskill.

Also maybe add Regen/Atk/FT on the TS Specific trophies depending on which one it is. But these ones don't summon bags.