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[Handor]

subcombines

The way it looks to me...

You'll still have to do subcombines. So to make those CVT's:

1. Recipe CE (uses a scent of marr and celestial solvent)
2. Recipe CE (uses a scent of marr and celestial solvent)
3. Recipe CE (uses a scent of marr and celestial solvent)
4. Recipe CE (uses a scent of marr and celestial solvent)
5. Recipe Coldain Heater (uses the algae, etc... forget exact recipe)
6. Recipe CVT (uses up 4 CE's and a Coldain Heater)

Is it quicker than the current 'click' system? Oh, yeah. But is it going to 'ruin' the market? Not a chance -- the folks that lack the patience to do tradeskills now will not bother with them unless you can click a recipe like "misty thicket picnic" and have all the subcombines done for you.

I hope this hits Test soon, it will be fun to play with! (Just wish they'd done this a few years ago.. now that I'm 1750 it's not near as 'useful')

[mewkus]

Some ideas...

Regarding recipe books - Sony probably wont keep a perminant recipe book for each of the 14 billion characters to track which of the 36 thousand recipies they know. Part of the fun of tradeskilling is discovering new and previously unknown recipies. So, I would suggest a couple of options that might solve peoples concerns here.
Option A - You could start off with an empty recipe book each time you log on. Then once you attempt a combine (the old fashioned way), that recipe is added and stays until you log (or zone if they wanna make it tougher for ya).
Option B - Recipes shows up for any final item already in your inventory.

Regarding skilling up - I tend to be old school here and don't think they need to make it easier for people to skill up (I had to walk to school up hill both ways, so should everyone else danggit). If you look at the progression of brewing skillup combines, they make high level combines harder by requiring more ingredients. Doing a MHB combine requires no more human skill than making a Short Beer. Learning isn't supposed to be easy. My recommendation here is that combines done with this new interface do not qualify for a skill up check.

Regarding macroers - It makes no difference to the macroers whether they need to program ten mouse clicks or one (other than the two minutes it takes when initally setting up their macro).

Regarding people doing subcombines as a source of income - I never liked the idea of paying someone to do the tedium work that in and of itself shouldn't be necessary. If they remove the skill up check for these types of combines, they I'd say it'd also be great if they implement a Shift-Click to do a whole stack of combines.

[BuzWeaver]

Well, it was only a matter of time before this was going to be implemented; it’s just another area where they are dumbing down the game. I like the idea and think it’s an interesting concept. Trade skills was one of those areas that was still unaffected and old schoolers could appreciate it, though Carpel Tunnel was nearly the mark of your skill.

I don’t think that the ability to combine more easily will change the Skill Up rate and it most certainly isn’t going to affect the Drop rate of needed items, at least I wouldn’t think so.

In my personal opinion I wouldn’t mind seeing the Skill Up rate change. I’m not sure how the new Interface will handle certain elements or combines, I’m sure certain element will still require the old method.

[Trepan]

Originally posted by Faelorn
I love the fact that people at a tradeskill spoiler site are worried about the "unknown" recipes being handed out.

Thats pretty good.

We're a community.

And figuring out recipes is what we do for fun. If the mystery recipes are all laid out for us, its less fun, and the person who might have figured it out, is denied the fame and satisfaction of it.

The serious tradeskillers also like the sense of accomplishment that comes from having gained something that is difficult to obtain - but something that normally doesn't require a raid force to accomplish.

We're a community of overachieving individualists.

Making this easier will lower the sense of accomplishment.. but increase the life span of our click-weary mice.

All I wanted was containers to be locked in position when the control key was down

Lets see how they implement their changes and decide then. It could be cool.

[atonic]

Originally posted by BuzWeaver
Well, it was only a matter of time before this was going to be implemented; it’s just another area where they are dumbing down the game........

What part of the endless clicking and dragging makes a tradeskiller intelligent?

A system of this nature should have been in the game from day one. If they want to limit combines to 100 per hour, then the combine button should have a 36 second refresh time. Forcing people to execute all the additonal mouse movement to do tradeskills is just willful negligence on the part of SOE.

[Soulfiend]

Tired of all the clicking and dragging needed just to make a type 1 wood arrow? We know that the current tradeskill interface is cumbersome, so the UI guys have come up with some new ideas.

I'm sure about 3 months ago I said this would be a great idea, then someone said that macro'ers would have a field day with this and there would be no way they would do it?

[Kahlmer]

This is ripped straight out of Horizons and I can't say I'm sad about it.

This will make precombines much less tedious.

The way Horizonz does it, and I'm not sure how EQ will, is that you have to learn the recipe - very similar to how we scribe spells in EQ. From the announcement, it just sounds like every recipe will be available up to your skill level and for an undetermined amount above.

[FeroceFV]

It's good to be a tailor or a smith. If they put this in place, then pottery, brewing, and baking will be piss easy.

Overall, this is a good thing. Easier to get your celestial essences and such made. I just hope they take that ****ed click delay out of the game and find a better way to deal with the macroing.

[Gello]

I'm by no means an expert on this (and this board probably isn't a place to make experts on it either), but the idea that this change will promote macroing seems way off.

A macro is an automated script that does everything. Every tedious click, every press of the ctrl key, every run to the water merchant, every forage and every imaginable sequence that can be planned. I imagine a script takes over the mouse and keyboard and goes to town.

This change will have no impact on macroers. If anything, the way to promote macroing is to go back to unstackable pelts, go back to using the scrollbar to select 1 item, etc. To basically go back to making tradeskills unbearably tedious so that no human would ever bother to run through the whole sequence.

More tedium = more incentive to macro
Less tedium = less incentive to macro

[Tudamorf]

Originally posted by Gello
This change will have no impact on macroers.

Don't be silly. Maybe there are a few very sophisticated macroers who can automate every step of the way, but the common macroer can only do simple things like repeat key strokes or mouse movements. Just pressing a button is about 100 times to easier to macro than something complicated like moving components around and opening and closing containers, and the ability to macro so easily will attract legions of macroers who thought the process was too complicated before. Add in a delay to the process and you practically guarantee that everyone and their brother will macro, just as in DAoC or UO.

Aid Grimel, the worst mistake in trade skill history, already started killing trade skills, because it took a group of players with tons of time and money on their hands, and gave them a phat l3wt incentive to take up trade skills -- all the while excluding the dedicated trade skill person from the process. New multi-GM trade skillers are coming out the woodwork daily it seems on account of this mistake, and the trade skill system has shifted from finished product to get-your-skillz-up-fast-for-phat-l3wtz subcombines. I wish they would have just placed that stupid loot on the loot tables of the gods, leaving trade skills untouched.

But now add in a 1-click macroing system, and you can nail the coffin on trade skills. They will turn from what they used to be -- a valid alternative play style for those who don't like to sit and raid all day -- to just another method of self-advancement like AAs. The market for finished products will crash completely, and all that will be left is a market for pre-combines and components for skilling up smithing and tailoring.

What will be the point of an easy system of trade skill combines, when, at the end, you won't feel the need to be combining anything?

[Kilauea Bacchus]

They did say that the combines that were above your current skill would still need to be put in by hand. Maybe the >250 combines will be this way. One-click subcombines + drag and drop final combines STILL makes my wrist and arm thank Sony for working this idea. I hate subcombines, and so does my CTS.

[Malthorn]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Renjah]

I'd like to see more info before I panic. I REALLY doubt they would make this an easier skill up path. It would only hurt things and really mess up the economy and I REALLY doubt SoE wants that.

[Maddoc-the-Wayfarer]

I'm not going to post a whole lot about the tradeskill interface, since that would ruin some of the suspense and anticipation, but I will mention one thing...

You do not need to worry about complete automation of tradeskills. Mystery recipes won't be handed to you in a list that's ready to use (I suppose a couple might "slip" through the cracks, but definately not all of them ). That is neither our goal nor our desire with the new interface, and it most decidedly is not the "Nail in the coffin of tradeskilling."

I think tradeskillers, veteran and newcomer alike, will be greatly pleased with the new tradeskill interface. Look for more information in the near future

--Maddoc

Edit: I guess that was two things

[Lothay]

Thank you for stopping by Maddoc.