Unsolved recipies

[Kandrak]

Originally posted by Brodder FoamyMugs
Heh at one time even I sat at at FORGE and took out spices, sauces and my smithing hammer (for the real tough cuts of meat) and meats of various sources since I thought an oven was in no way a proper way to BBQ meats or cook even.
Real DWARFS COOK ON THE FORGE!!
ARRR ARRR ARRR!
A Spit ye say?
Bah only weenies carry a cooking spit, real dwarfs cook while they work! We get more iron in our diet that way too!
ARrr Arrr Arr!

Ye know, this would probably work really well on ogurs, I'm thinkin. Problem is, how do ye do about gettin a whole ogur into a forge? Is there another recipe, perhaps a Prybar of Ogur Wedging er sum suchlike?

[Cigarskunk]

They claim that there are plenty of unsolved recipes in the game, but how many of these recipes have they actually gone out and confirmed really work at all?

And when I say confirmed, I'm talking actually logging a character into a real server and aquiring and combining the items just like we the players would.

Don't look in the database and say "Well, the items are in our database, so they're in the game" - actually go up to the mob or merchant that has the stuff and buy or farm it yourself.

Don't look at the code and say "Well, the recipes are there, just no one has discovered them" - actually buy or farm the raw materials and then put them in a tradeskill container and hit combine until you get the item.

Don't assume that there are adequate hints in the game - walk up to the NPC that's supposed to give the hints or sell the book or drop the recipe scroll and confirm that the NPC is actually doing his or her job and not screwing around talking to thier friends on thier cell phone - if Bob the Troll NPC is supposed to tell me about [cooking] when I talk to him, but instead just says "Hi Nidalap" or ignores me when I say "What cooking?" to him, then obviously the hint isn't there.

And Brodder FoamyMugs - could you please atleast tell us that you've gone to the NPCs that you've done everything I've suggested above and can confirm for us that yes indeed, the recipes and the quest are all honkey dorry?

[Verdandi]

Yes, I'm sure some of them are old. But not all of them. And we've hardly been without hints on Brodder, as the looooong thread in Brewing will attest.

At any rate, we've just been told that we'll be getting hints for the unsolved recipes. I suspect that the lack of them to this point is due more to inattention than to any intentional wish to drive us crazy. So I don't understand the sudden frustration at this point...?

[KyrosKrane]

Originally posted by Verdandi
So I don't understand the sudden frustration at this point...?

I don't think it's so much frustration as shock. Between Brodder and Maddoc, we're getting confirmation that there are multiple (possibly even many) unsolved recipes in the game. While it's fabulous that both of them are providing us with hints here, the general assumption is that there should be clues in-game that point to the recipes.

As a number of people have said, clues that may be obvious to one person (e.g., the developers) may make no sense to another (e.g., the players). We may not have the context or background we need to pick up the hint.

Likewise, there has been an unfortunate history of recipes that seem to work or should work, but break down for one reason or another. As Cigar said, it would be helpful (if quite time-consuming) for the developers to verify in-game, on live servers, using normal player accounts, that some of these recipes are still correct; that the appropriate NPC's still say the right things; that mobs drop the necessary parts; and that vendors sell the appropriate bits.

On the other hand, I could see this as the basis for a new serverwide competition on a par with the first Solstice quest. Call it the Creator's Quest. Give out REALLY obscure hints OUT OF GAME (that is, here or on the Sony Website) for multiple recipes, releasing more hints every few days. Record who first successfully completes the hidden recipes -- this can be done either automatically, if the server logging mechanisms support it, or by having players enter their recipes on a Web form. At the end of the quest, give a prize to the player who solves the most recipes, or produced the most items, or what have you -- maybe name an item after the player. Grant the title "the Inventor" to the player on each server who made the most recipes. There are any number of ways this could be turned into a tradeskill promotion event.

[Itzena]

Or for an even older example - the scaler. It's been in game since launch or just afterwards and nobody knows what it's used for.

And a quest or series of quests for 'lost splatbooks' (cookbooks, smithing notebooks, tailoring guides, beer-soaked dwarven journals, etc, etc.) would be an excellent idea. I mean, they might not even have to have all the recipes in the books (although some would be nice), but a brief note about whatever recipe it is and a 'NPC_xyz is rumoured to know more about this' or some other hint like that. At least that way there'd be a starting point.

[Graal]

And so SOE reaps the consequences of years of spotty attention to all of the myriad details of tradeskills. The player base has been trained not to bother hunting down obscure clues and experimenting to find recipes. The most likely answer has always been that something is broken or missing.

[kiztent]

If there are recipes from the Velious era that haven't been solved, either the hints are too obscure or the recipes don't work. I wouldn't be proud of either one of those being true if I was a developer.

We know that someone goes around and hails EVERY NPC and verifies ever piece of text they could spit out as soon as they are made live (and posts them on the safe house). We know that anything that even looks like it could be tradeskill related is poounced on by members of this site and beat into the ground. If it's not a lack of players trying, the problem must lie elsewhere.

I mean, what's the thought process here: "Joe`Bob in third gate giving the recipe to anyone with maxed miner guild 407 faction is a perfectly reasonable hint. Can't understand for a second why no one has found that yet."

[Kalelce]

Originally posted by Itzena
Or for an even older example - the scaler. It's been in game since launch or just afterwards and nobody knows what it's used for.

I've always thought the scaler was a bug. Actually the fishing recipes bugged. I figued a scaler should be used in a tackle box. Not a filleting knife... A filleting knife is used in cooking, aye?

[Lothay]

Originally posted by Kalelce
I've always thought the scaler was a bug. Actually the fishing recipes bugged. I figued a scaler should be used in a tackle box. Not a filleting knife... A filleting knife is used in cooking, aye?

Actually, acording to my dictionary a scaler is used in smithing not fishing.

[Gilgam]

A perfect example of the beating the recipe attempts to death is Brodder's revenge. The combinations generated are getting obscene. I appreciate Brodder for stepping up and throwing out some clues. I do not appreciate the devs having these things sit out there hoping that we somehow stumble onto a recipe. I guess if you are so inclined you could try combinations with every item tagged for tradeskills, but I would rather have some indication of what could be combined to create something new.

[Cigarskunk]

Originally posted by Verdandi
So I don't understand the sudden frustration at this point...?

LOL - I've never been under the impression that the frustration towards these unsolved recipes is anything sudden - it's been out there for a LONG time.

Basically, every time someone at Sony starts feeling smug and clever and feels the need to brag that they're apparently not as dumb as we think they are due to the fact that they've managed to have these hundreds of unsolved recipes and quests in the game for god knows how many years, it just sets the various communities off.

We've seen WAY too many times how quests and recipes have been bugged and broken for god knows how long and only suddenly get figured out by someone right after a patch.

As for it taking too long to actually go in game and confirm that all the unsolved recipes/quests really do work - nonsense - give one of the interns down at a Sony a complete list of the quests and recipes and the appropiate god codes so that he can farm, hail, travel, buy and combine what he needs and I'd bet he could could bang them all out in a 40 hour week or less.

[Dhomal the Scavenger]

Hello-

I agree that possibly they need to be live-tested. Yes - SOE puts a great amount of work into Beta - but it cannot, by definition, be complete.

Having to live-check Every recipe and quest would take WAY too much time - and I don't hold it against them that they do not. However - instead of Bragging (*If this is what they have done - I have not seen it myself*) about the unsolved mysteries - they might want to be Concerned. At That point - live-testing seems to be the appropriate action. I would even go so far as to have someone NOT involved with the coding of the recipe/quest be asked to do them. (*certainly - an SOE employee - but if they feel brave - I would volunteer!*) In that way - they could also rate whether or not the clues were good enough. If then - it was determined that everything was A-OK - then fine - maybe a bit of Bragging - but not until then.

Don't brag about your child never failing a test - only to find out that they have been skipping class for months!

Dhomal the Scavenger
Warrior - 51
Officer - Brellian Defenders - Brell Serilis Server
2AA points - Fletching 239

"Aye - I have almost brought my understanding of the bow and arrow to completeness. But I still don't fully understand a dart!"

[Lothay]

Lothay scowls at you, ready to attack. What do you want your tombstone to say?

Please do not let this devolve into Sony-bashing. Some posts above dance dangerously close to that line.

[Cigarskunk]

Originally posted by Lothay
Lothay scowls at you, ready to attack. What do you want your tombstone to say?

Please do not let this devolve into Sony-bashing. Some posts above dance dangerously close to that line.

/em looks around for the Sony bashing

/em wonders if Lothay considers the suggestions that Sony have someone actually test the unsolved recipes/quests and make sure that they aren't unsolved due to be broken to be bashing

/em thinks Lothay is overworked and settles Lothay into a nice comfey chair with a big mug of coco and some warm cookies - Lothay obviously needs a break

[Lothay]

Cigar -

Refering to Sony employees as "smug" is the first thing that lept to my eye.

It might not have been your intention for it to be percieved that way, but it certainly came off that way to me.

And no, I'm not overworked, but the cocoa and the comfy chair are always appreciated.