The promised Fan Faire update

[Niami DenMother]

Well, it took me a few days more than planned, but here's a VERY quick update for you.

I brought home a list of over 30 things that were tradeskill-related from the 2 tradeskill panels, a couple other EQ panels, as well as several folks cornering me in dark hallways. The list was turned into something comprehensible and handed over to Maddoc on Monday. (My flaky mailer loved him so much that it sent it to him 3 times, to boot!)

Some of them, such as being able to filter combine message spam, or tea leaves that you accidentally eat (eww, bitter!) look like they'd be relatively easy to tackle. Others, such as smoothing out the tailoring skill progression some are going to take time, which is a precious and rare resource right now. Others, such as the 'crafted by' flag on made items, are simply and utterly impossible, given how items are handled in the game.

And yes, as someone caught in the Yakatizma thread, Maddoc is the new 'tradeskill guy', on top of several other hats that he wears. We'd kept rather quiet about the changing of the guard before the Fan Faire because he's been frantically trying to clear his plate of some *other* stuff, and I didn't want him overwhelmed by the screaming hordes. He has, however, been following these boards for many-a-month, and has been known to have a halfling nesting in his packs ever since I tripped over him working on zone stuff in PoP beta.

This afternoon, one of the items from the Fan Faire laundry list was successfully tackled (and I'm starting a timer to see how long it takes for one of the jewelers to notice this and jump for joy). Live on Test now, and due to be patched to the production servers on the 8th of this month is a fix to the JCM (jewel craft mastery) AA. With JCM 3, 60 combines on platinum/emerald (trivial a bit above 250) yielded 58 successes. 60 combines on velium blue diamond (with a much higher trivial) yielded 57 successes. {shakes out her tired wrist} Yes, yours truly got to do the clicking and counting, just to be sure. Enjoy, gang!

Also, brewers, take heart. "Real soon now", there should be a Shadowhaven NPC who will give you hints about the Lewena's Secret that you've been trying to sort out to no avail.


Now, when am I going to see some of those pictures that everyone took, hm?

[Niami DenMother]

As an addendum, someone over at EQBeastlord wrote up a good summary of one of the general forums (I was at the same one, but only took notes on the tradeskill stuff, so it's kinda neat to see someone else's perspective on it).

Here's a quote from it about the RNG, as explained by Scott Hartsman, one of the Dev team.

Scott also mentioned that when he came onto the Live team about 2 years ago, the first thing he did was run about a billion cycles through the Random Number Generator. He was sure the the thing was streaky as all-get-out and needed to be tweaked. What he found was that over said billion cycles, the distribution was almost perfect. RNG is actually random. He did say that the immense length of the string necessary to get said perfect distribution might be a little long, which is why we tend to see so many streaks, and I believe he said they were checking that to perhaps shorten that string.

You can find that entire summary here:
http://www.eqbeastlord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8683

[Lilosh]

*nod* Very very nice news , Niami!!

Good to hear that Lewena might finally get a drink. :-)

And I'm sure that all the High level enchanters are leaping for joy.


-Lilosh

[Verdandi]

Edited 10/9 to add Maddoc's clarification about the spell research drops

Well, I've got some free time sooner than I thought, so here goes. These are the things I noted as being discussed in the tradeskill sessions at Fan Faire. Rather than list Q and A separately, I've combined both in one point. If some of them seem out of the blue, keep in mind that just about all of them are based on someone suggesting them. Please keep in mind that I jotted these down somewhat hastily while trying to keep track of everything being said, so I may have missed something here and there and may have a detail or two off. Mea culpa in advance. This may be a duplication of what folks have reported elsewhere but I want to write it as I have it before reading elsewhere, so I don't confuse my memories any more than the vodka tonics did.

General[list][*]There are no plans to give any kind of experience for doing tradeskill combines.[*]There are no plans to create any more class restricted tradeskills.[*]Tradeskilled augments are a possibility for someday.[*]There are no plans for tradeskilled charms.[*]In response to a request for tradeskills to be more fun, people asked for - and were told:

1. could recipes with farmed ingredients give faster skillups than recipes with vendor bought ingredients? - possibly, not sure
2. could combine results be made to vary, so that sometimes you will get extra nice items and sometimes less valuable? - not sure, and not sure if that is something many people would want (a later suggestion was to use augments to somehow tweak your results without having to create multiple versions of the same item)
3. could we put in a stack of each item and then click combine twenty times, even with a pause to keep the time sink intact, and at least save moving one of each item twenty times? - good idea, not sure if possible
4. could there be skill caps to prevent lower level items from being made by the high skill crafters to help maintain a market for it? - not sure if many people would want that
5. could there be skillup recipes that don't produce anything of much value so that the market doesn't get trashed for the few things that give skillups? - something to consider[/list=A]
6. A filter for tradeskill combine messages (when you are grouped and in the same zone as someone who is doing combines) is a great idea and certainly a possibility. (This was met with much huzzahs.)
7. They are attempting to improve the value of the more difficult and less lucrative skills as ideas come. Ideas along these lines are always welcome.
8. It might be possible to sometimes get some of your materials other than implements back upon failure. Maybe.
9. There are ideas for ways to advance tradeskills beyond the 1750 mark, but no solid plans.
10. There are no plans (and it might not be possible) to have a tradeskilled item that would let you remove an augment from an item and get the augment back.
11. There are no plans for an ultimate trophy for the 1750s, but they are open to ideas.
12. The RNG is not broken, it is RANDOM.
13. One participant's comment that tradeskills are too expensive for low levels who aren't twinked was met with a chorus of suggestions from the crowd, so there was no dev answer.
14. There are no plans for any way to change your religion or to acquire one if you are agnostic, however appealing it may be in a roleplaying sense.
15. Skill modifiers do not stack.
16. There are ideas to allow half elves to "show their culture". This was in response to a request for half elven cultural, even if it's quest based. It was implied that it will be somehow related to tradeskills, but no details were given.
17. The idea was noted of giving an alternative way to get animal drops (pelts and meats and the like) so that followers of Tunare (and maybe others) will be able to avoid killing animals. Putting animal drops on poacher and their ilk was one idea.
18. There is no way to put the name of whoever made an item on that item.
19. They have to check on why the grandmaster's satchel weighs .3 more than a bag of the tinkerers.
20. Lemming fur now has a use.
21. A command to open all bags at once is a good idea, might be possible.
22. They will have to look at erudite cultural to see if it is possible to remove the need for all those rubies given that the price of blue diamonds is much less than it once was.
23. It is not possible with the game engine to put a container inside any other container for any reason whatsoever. It is also impossible to create containers with more than 10 slots. So is putting containers in anything other than a general inventory slot (wrist pouches on your wrist, etc.)
24. They will check on whether it is possible to allow combining items in a tradeskill container that is in the bank (rather than in your inventory).
25. The idea of varying the stats on items made by the race (and maybe class) of the maker was noted, but may not be possible or desirable.
26. The idea of creating npcs that will give hints about the use of items that are flagged as tradeskill usable was noted.
27. They will look at the issue of certain skills being significantly easier to skill up with access to elemental planes, giving a major advantage to uberguilds.
28. Tradeskilled coin purses are a good idea and have been noted as a possibility for someday.
29. Portable stills for brewing are a possibility.

Alchemy

• They would rather make potions that are more useful in the future than to try to radically change the existing potions, due to issues of balancing and the potential for changing the potions that people do like.
• The skill cap of 5 points per level starting at level 25 is something they will consider loosening after looking at the way poisonmaking and tinkering work.
• There is more in store for alchemy, it is by no means "finished". No specifics, but there is still good stuff to come.
• Mind buff potions (clarity, etc) beyond what exist now are very unlikely because they would infringe on the classes with mind buffs.
• There are no plans to improve the sell-back price of alchemy potions because they would rather introduce more potions that will have a market with other players.
• Foraged ingredients were put in LDoN because people asked for them and they provide an alternate means of getting herbs without feeding all your money to vendors.
• Prices on gate potions are probably not going to change due to balance issues.

Fishing

• They are open to the suggestion of improving the rewards available when fishing, maybe introducing a small sack of gold or similar things in addition to the usual fresh fish, tattered sandal, fish scales, and such.

Make Poison

• They're not sure why some PoP poisons are no drop while others are droppable. They'll check into it.
• Zone specific poisons, like something made from Ssraeshza drops that is particularly effective against shissar, are a good idea and something to consider.

Research

• A research trophy will be coming someday.
• Research drops for lvl 50-60 spells are not entirely zone-specific. Parts that drop off of a mob of a given level should drop off of mobs of that same level in some other zones. They were added primarily to LoY, new, and recently revamped zones and not to all zones across the board. see Dev Maddoc's 10/9 reply for more

Quests (involving Tradeskills)

• They're not sure if it's possible to put multiple tradeskill modifiers on the Aid Grimel earring.
• There will probably be more tradeskill intensive quests like the coldain prayer shawl and solstice earring coming in the future.
• There will not be any more shawls. Once a god gives you an item directly, there's not much better to be had.
• They will look into whether the prisoner in PoJ who describes a fletching recipe knows what he is talking about or not.

Smithing

• They will consider bridging the gap in smithing for barbarians between the basic cultural and the blue diamond cultural. More weapons and armor are in the works (although whether they will be cultural was not specified, I think.)
• Future smithed armors will probably at least sometimes have more slots for augments, like the LDoN armors do, but existing armors will probably not be changed, or at least not any time soon.
• The enigmatic gnomish cultural forge was mentioned, although I seem to have missed the reply.
• There are no plans and no desire to give the ability to change the look of a piece of armor from one type of armor to another (ie. change plate to look like chain, etc.)

Tinkering

• There is a possibility that more tinkering ingredients can be made stackable to alleviate some reported problems with excessively inconvenient combines.
• Tinkering will hopefully be getting some new stuff soon. It is noted as a skill in need of something fresh.

And that's it on the tradeskill related stuff that I noted. I hope I got it all right. *lumbers off to sleep*

Additional updates available in this thread. I'd wanted to tack them on the end of this post but cannot, due to message length limits.

[Myrron]

There will probably be more tradeskill intensive quests like the coldain prayer shawl and solstice earring coming in the future.

This would be great to see, especially if it will not require access to planes most of us will never see.

I think it would be especially cool to see a solstice-like gift quest where all of the gifts are cultural items only. It would give some races a reason to tradeskill again, and prevent 1750s from being able to own the market. A unification of multiple racial items to create unique gear. Might even be cool to have some sort of mix-n-match too...the human, high elf, wood elf, and erudite gifts could yield one item, but human, dark elf, ogre, and erudite gifts yield something else. Maybe even half elves can contribute something. But I digress...as long as they introduce something new and something that the general populace can do, I think that would be fun.

--Myrron

[Aandaie]

"There is no way to put the name of whoever made an item on that item."

I guess new engines have the advantage, that is in Horizons from the get go ( at least I've heard this.)

[Ianthe]

Curious if anyone asked about the smithing ore chiseling. Since they fixed being able to stack multiple items of the same type on your cursor, if it's possible to make it so a block of velium (for example) can give you more then 2 small pieces...

[Slippyblade]

I just wish I could break Velium weapons down into Velium ore. That would rock. Also, I am curious as to someething mentioned...

The skill cap of 5 points per level starting at level 25 is something they will consider loosening after looking at the way poisonmaking and tinkering work.

I'm not sure about tinkering, but Make Poison is 5 pts per level starting at 21. I don't really see how this is any looser than Alchemy, maybe I missed something?

And that Lemming Fur bag is NICE! About time tailors can make a bag better than Handmade Backpacks.

[Itzena]

Re: The promised Fan Faire update

Originally posted by Niami DenMother
Others, such as smoothing out the tailoring skill progression some are going to take time, which is a precious and rare resource right now.

I didn't even know this was being considered. Wow.

And yes, as someone caught in the Yakatizma thread, Maddoc is the new 'tradeskill guy', on top of several other hats that he wears.

Poor guy. It's a dity job, but yadda yadda.

This afternoon, one of the items from the Fan Faire laundry list was successfully tackled (and I'm starting a timer to see how long it takes for one of the jewelers to notice this and jump for joy). Live on Test now, and due to be patched to the production servers on the 8th of this month is a fix to the JCM (jewel craft mastery) AA.

Also good news for any tailors approaching Solstice Robe skillup time. Like myself, to pick a random name out of the air.

Also, brewers, take heart. "Real soon now", there should be a Shadowhaven NPC who will give you hints about the Lewena's Secret that you've been trying to sort out to no avail.

Yay! Now, about that whisperling shield quest...

Originally posted by Bell...er...Verdandi
They will have to look at erudite cultural to see if it is possible to remove the need for all those rubies given that the price of blue diamonds is much less than it once was.

A bit late for myself but it'd be nice for all the erudite tailors who still have it as a potential (but currently unviable) skillup route. Thanks to whoever brought this up.

*random thought* Argh. That means I'll have to find a new pet peeve. Lewena...no, wait that was mentioned earlier.

Um.

Let me get back to you on that one.



Seriously though, thanks a load to Niami, Verdandi and everyone else who went to this and all previous Fan Faires. Living in the UK makes travelling to them myself an expensive proposition (at best) so all I can do is moan about stuff here and hope someone picks up on it.

[Flashback]

I certainly am not gonna degrade anyone who has achieved such a great task as the 1750 club. I do have issues with rumors of forsaking the old time tradeskillers. The ones that used a scrollbar to take one from a stack. The ones that farmed endlessly for components before new recipes came out. The ones that could only have 2 bags at a time open. The ones that bought a 2nd account in order to get a different skill on another toon above 250 and have the bankspace to do it.

I GM’d my tradeskills long before you could GM more than one per toon. There were no AA’s to earn or spend. There were no needed drops in zones I may never see.

To see something like the Aid Grimel quest just hurts. For me to start skilling again on the same toon would be pure insanity since I have GM’d it already, just did it early on with alts. Wouldn’t want to be punished for using the content of the game to early. Those in the 1750 club have done no more than me (except spend a few AA’s) and get rewarded with Signet of the Arcane or Signet of might. Grats guys. An item worthy of your hard work. But where is the reward for us folks that tradeskilled to early?

I absolutely love many of the changes in the past 2 years for tradeskillers. May 8th is a date I’ll never forget. (My 250 potter finally had something to do.) All I’m asking is please don’t make another single toon, high-level tradeskill quest.

As a side note, will HIE Wizards and chanters ever see cultural BD stuff? HIE smithy’s use to make chain that int casters could wear, but that got lost in the BD shuffle. And if humans can blacksmith BD armor for many deities, why can’t all blacksmith’s? (My Karana wizard was just curious.)

[Cantatus]

Thanks for taking notes Niami and Verdandi. Greatly appreciated by those of us that couldn't make Fan Faire.

[Ortrillian]

Great job y'all. YAY that they are fixing JCM though I was kind of disappointed to see no mention of fixing problems with PoP tradeskills such as smithing and tailoring (I assume it's only PoP as I've only seen the enormus decline in successful combines while making these items).

All 3 of those went down the tubes around the same time, haven't been doing much pottery/fletching so I don't know if they are having a problem as well. If success rates are changed for smithing, tailoring etc., especially for PoP items, it would be nice if we were straight out told that is what they are doing so that we could stop praying the next patch will fix it. I hate making PoP items now because of the huge waste of components and the very unhappy guildmates when we have tried 8 times to make their item to no avail and can't try any longer because we've used the entire supply.

Was there any word on the vendor mining? I really want that back. /cry

[Berix]

Response

But where is the reward for us folks that tradeskilled to early?

Accolades. If you were among the first to GM everything, you were among the first to recieve such glowing praise from your fellow tradeskiller community.

Do you only tradeskill for "phat lewts?" No, I'm sure you, like MANY of the rest of us do it becuase you enjoy it.

I, for one always felt the allure of tradeskill fever to be in the fact that it was something that "couldn't be taken away." I can delevel and lose hps, ac and spells, but I'll always be a 250 Tinker and Jewelcrafter. If I were to transfer servers or get an equipment wipe, I'd still be a 250 Tinker and Jewelcrafter.

[Slippyblade]

Tradeskilled to early? I don't get this notion. Is there something *keeping* you from doing Grimmel other than needed flags? The very fact that you were a GM earlier than others was a huge benefit. It meant that you could capitalize on things before others.

I don't really understand the problem there, sorry if I'm being thick.

[Suva]

There are ideas to allow half elves to "show their culture". This was in response to a request for half elven cultural, even if it's quest based. It was implied that it will be somehow related to tradeskills, but no details were given.

*crosses fingers*