Forage as an AA skill

[Eumerin]

I think the answer is to provide more alternative recipes that use goods that aren't too hard to get, and that don't require foraging. Of course, the downside to that is that you don't want the goods becoming too common, so you need a way to control the flow into the game, similar to the reset time and randomness factor on foraging.

Groundspawns get camped, low level mob drops get farmed, and vendors just end up with their product purchased en masse by powerskillers. Foraging roaches in PoJ might not require any work for a druid (you can sit at the zone line and do it, or you can join a group and do it), but at the same time, it does control the rate of entry into the game.

Another option might be to create a secondary forage skill (call it "scrounge") available to all classes, that only had a limited selection of items available (all of which are tradeskill useable), but that's probably more trouble than its worth, and considering that many of the foraged tradeskill items can be used for food and water, it doesn't really get around the core of the problem, either.

[Hobbun]

I would have to agree with Phabos. Certain classes have certain abilities.
A couple times at least Verant has made changes where I don't think they needed to be made because players couldn't stop complaining about it.

"It's not fair, I have to get binded from other people. Why can't I get bind or easier access to it?" Insert Soulbinders.

"Its sucks. I have to run everywhere. When I die I am running for an hour. Why can't I get quick access to the rest of the world?" Insert PoK with portal stones.

Classes have their abilities or spells for specific reasons, everytime Verant makes a change to make those classes less unique, it unbalances them a little more. What would be the fun if all or most classes shared all or most abilities/spells?

Hobbun
Druid of Karana
33rd Season

[Cubwynn]

I also agree with Phabos. If I wanted to play some dual-wielding sword-flinging mage with uber spells and rezzes, tracking, etc., I'd play a different game.

What's the fun if you can do everything? And would you really want to play an EQ where every other player can do exactly what you can do?

When you roll a character in EQ, you do so knowing full well there are limitations based on the class, race, and diety you pick (well, unless you're a n00b). Live with it, or roll another character. Those are your choices.

[kiztent]

Classes have their abilities or spells for specific reasons, everytime Verant makes a change to make those classes less unique, it unbalances them a little more. What would be the fun if all or most classes shared all or most abilities/spells?

Hobbun
Druid of Karana
33rd Season

There's 2 things at work here. One is the desire to have differentiated classes. The other is the desire to avoid stupid timesinks and keep the casual player interested.

To pick one example: adding PoK stones didn't add succor and evac to any new classes. This means I don't have to spend a half hour running to Cabalis to turn in bone chips. It doesn't mean I'm going to go wandering in to deep chardok without a druid or wizard, unless I'm feeling very crazy or I have top notch CC on hand (and I can summon corpses if it gets too hairy). This is a good change.

It's not clear to me how adding forage would avoid any stupidity (except high elf smithing and certain halfling tailors). There are alternate paths for any tradeskill that uses foraging - bar the 2 examples I mentioned. I've never seen a high elf ask for foraging, they ask for recipe changes. Don't know about halfling tailors.

[Quesci]

Hobbits, yes Hobbits. We are the one Race that has been forgotten when it comes to foraging, we should be omgphatlewtzforagers masters

I thought all halflings were druids, so they can forage.

[Lilosh]

There's 2 things at work here. One is the desire to have differentiated classes. The other is the desire to avoid stupid timesinks and keep the casual player interested.

To pick one example: adding PoK stones didn't add succor and evac to any new classes. This means I don't have to spend a half hour running to Cabalis to turn in bone chips. It doesn't mean I'm going to go wandering in to deep chardok without a druid or wizard, unless I'm feeling very crazy or I have top notch CC on hand (and I can summon corpses if it gets too hairy). This is a good change.

Ahh.. You say time sink, I say interdependancy.

You have to spend 30 minutes because you dont have a druid. (Even though Cabalis is near a druid/wiz portal, most books are. That was hobbun's point I think.). When I die, I have to spend the same 30 minutes retrieving my body, and finding a cleric.

If getting foraged items is a "Stupid timesink", then so is CR and Getting a rez. It would appear that a good solution to this "Stupid timesink" would be to allow all classes the ability to summon and ressurect their own corpses.

Phabos is absolutely correct, as are the rest. If every class can forage whatever they need, then another bite is taken out of Class distinction.


-Lilosh

[Railina]

I personally don't see how it would make sense for my wizard to Forage

/em sits down for a nice, long med break and. . . ooh what's this? Looks like some tasty berries!
A_wizard_01 has taken a bite out of deadly nightshade. . . i don't feel so good.
A-wizard_01 has been poisoned!

On the other hand, you have different fingers

Frankly, I don't like the idea of any of the 'class or race defining' skills being available as an AA, are you going to ask for track next?

Iksar/Trolls: Innate Regen
-- All races Innate regen AA
Warriors: Critical hit ability
-- All melee/hybrid classes Combat Fury AA
Wizards: Innate spell crit ability (added after SoL went live)
-- All casters/hybrids Spell Casting Fury AA
Frogloks: Extended Breath duration
-- All races Innate Lung Capacity AA

-------
And how many times harder should it be to learn to forage than it is to advance from level 51 to level 52? That's what an AA point represents after all. If some wet-behind-the-ears woodelf can forage at a skill of 50, why shouldn't someone who invests an amount of experience approximately equal to to leveling from 1 to 35?

NTCM elliminated the need for "tradeskill mules" to GM multiple skills, why not let people spend AA on other things they could otherwise do with a level 1 mule?
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edit: Funny, i don't see many bards or rangers defending their "class defining" ability to forage, nor iksar or (non-druid) woodelves. What i see is a great many members of the only class which can port into a hard to reach zone with rare/unique forages (WL, CS) or more easily gain access to even harder to reach zones with rare/unique forages (WW, and all its connecting zone which are SO much easier to reach by Succoring across SG) defending their hold over certain tradeskill related markets.

If getting foraged items is a "Stupid timesink", then so is CR and Getting a rez. It would appear that a good solution to this "Stupid timesink" would be to allow all classes the ability to summon and ressurect their own corpses.

Or just make a graveyard...

How bout if you die, and don't get ressurrected quickly, your corpse gets put in a safe spot at the zone line to either be ressurrected, or just make it easy to get to in a few clicks.

Wonder if anything like that would ever happen?

[Bennan]

As a Halfling Tailor (hopefully non-stupid), that is a Cleric i.e a non Forager, I have to rely on buying Misty Acorns from Newbies.

Which in a way is good, its a whole micro-economy right there, just like when I used to gather those honeycomb thingies from the Bixies and sell them to other players.

It involves interaction, and it gives a new player an outlet to make cash in.

If I could forage, I guess I would buy much less Misty Acorns from other players... But it would be very helpful if I could forage alot of things for myself.

I like class distinction but, as someone already mentioned its a timesink vs distinction of classes thing.

Honestly, I really don't want Foraging. Leave it to those that have it, just get rid of the no-drop on forage stuff that non-foraging classes might use (if there are any).

[Harliquinn]

Alternate Solution

Personally I am against foraging as an AA. As a bard, my skill is already low (55) and it's tough to get any forages I need. As others have said it's not a simple task of running through Great Divide and zoning into Thurgadin with a stack of Tufts of Dire Wolf Fur.

However, I do support the sprinkling of some foraged items as ground spawns or mob drops. For instance, like they did with acorns and morning dew. However, the amount of ground spawns and the frequency at which they respawn should be in line or slightly behind the time it takes to forage the same item. THis gives others a small chance to get that item without incroaching on the foraging classes (Who would also benefit from the ground spawns).

As for some of the other comparisons...

1) Innate Regen: Everyone has health regen. Iksars was just a bit faster. So everyone is improving on an ability they already had to begin with.
2) Critical Hits/Spells: I'd agree with this one, not sure why everyone get them *shrug*. This was a distinction that no other class ever had.
3) Extended Breath: See Innate Regen above.
4) Forage: Only a few people get this skill at all. Therefore it's not an improvement for anyone but them and should stay unique.

[kiztent]

There's 2 things at work here. One is the desire to have differentiated classes. The other is the desire to avoid stupid timesinks and keep the casual player interested.

To pick one example: adding PoK stones didn't add succor and evac to any new classes. This means I don't have to spend a half hour running to Cabalis to turn in bone chips. It doesn't mean I'm going to go wandering in to deep chardok without a druid or wizard, unless I'm feeling very crazy or I have top notch CC on hand (and I can summon corpses if it gets too hairy). This is a good change.

Ahh.. You say time sink, I say interdependancy.

Most people say interdependancy when they mean my class should do cool stuff and others' shouldn't. Don't confuse interdependancy with dependance. What advantages do warriors gain that makes them better tradeskillers?

When I die, I have to spend the same 30 minutes retrieving my body, and finding a cleric.

Actually, since your corpse is probably closer to a druid portal than a city, you probably have to spend LESS time than a non-porting class, finding a rez - you can port the cleric there. Try finding a rez in CS without being able to port the cleric there. It pretty much doubles your cost since you have to pay to port then cleric then pay for the rez. Still the case now too for CS.

If getting foraged items is a "Stupid timesink", then so is CR and Getting a rez. It would appear that a good solution to this "Stupid timesink" would be to allow all classes the ability to summon and ressurect their own corpses.

Yeah, I bet Sony will never add graveyards to the game that corpses automatically appear at. Guess you're not the only one that thinks CRs are a stupid timesink.

Want to try a relevant example of a stupid timesink that's still in game? Keys don't count.

[Sebilrazen]

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edit: Funny, i don't see many bards or rangers defending their "class defining" ability to forage, nor iksar or (non-druid) woodelves. What i see is a great many members of the only class which can port into a hard to reach zone with rare/unique forages (WL, CS) or more easily gain access to even harder to reach zones with rare/unique forages (WW, and all its connecting zone which are SO much easier to reach by Succoring across SG) defending their hold over certain tradeskill related markets.

Come on now, now you're just being bitter. If we want to get technical, one of the reasons for innate metabolism(name?) is because non dru/ranger/iksar/bard/ woodelf don't get forage, so you don't use up your food that often

If they ever do implement this as an aa you can be assured that the coding will only allow foraging of non zone specific forages... i.e. you'll get your veggies, fruit, berries and pods of water and some roots, that is it.

If the did implement this I am one druid that would quit playing probably, I don't think I'd be alone, I can see it now, somebody asking for port in nexus to CS and succor across sg:

You say to the group, "So you have a group in WW to do burrowers or dragons?"
Moron tells the group, "No I'm just going to WW zone in to forage"
You tell the group, "Excuse me?"
Moron tells the group, "Ya, just spent a few AA to get the new LoY AA: Forage, only gives a skill of 30 though"
You tell the group, "So you're just going to WW to forage?, no hunting, no questing?"
Moron tells the group, "Yep. I want to get some dragon eggs to make some plat, forget druids and rangers charging 75 -100pp for them"
You "Ahem"
Moron "Sorry, present company excluded of course ;P"
You forgot Circle of Cobalt Scar.
You begin to memorize circle of surefall glade, superior camo, and bind affinity
You tell the group, "So what class are you?"
Moron "Necro"
You "Cool, let me invis you for the run past the sirens"
Moron "Cool, thx"
You begin casting Circle of SFG.
LOADING...Plz wait
You have entered Surefall glade.
You begin casting bind affinity.
Moron is bound to the area.
You begin casting Cancel Magic.
You have left the group.
The group has been disbanded.
Moron appears.
Moron has been slain by random angry druid trainer.
Moron begins casting a spell.
Moron's spell is interupted.
Moron has been slain....
Moron tells you, "Why did you do this?"
You reply"I'm sorry, let me summon your corpse and rezz you to stop this madness, wait I don't have those abilities, hang on let me check if they added them as AA's that i can get...sorry.hmm looks like you'll need to find a guildie necro or sk, or maybe a pally or cleric that can rez you, I hate it when i mess up my spell slots like that...Have a good day..."
You have added moron to your ignore list

<i>I edited it for length same gist, just removed the party formation niceities etc</i>

<b>I would <i>never ever</i> do this it's just some of my feelings regarding the idea of all the other classes being able to do the thing that a few can do but only 2 do well</b> I mean if they do this I should be able to pay aa to get the ability to enchant up to gold so I can work on golden idols with out an enchanter, not to mention the mana vials. But I don't want that, that's what alts are for, and what friendly guildies are for, if everyone in the game was 100% self sufficient how fun would that be?

[EnfinitiStarr8]

Moron appears.
Moron has been slain by random angry druid trainer.
Moron begins casting a spell.
Moron's spell is interupted.
Moron has been slain....
Moron tells you, "Why did you do this?"
You reply"I'm sorry, let me summon your corpse and rezz you to stop this madness, wait I don't have those abilities, hang on let me check if they added them as AA's that i can get...sorry.hmm looks like you'll need to find a guildie necro or sk, or maybe a pally or cleric that can rez you, I hate it when i mess up my spell slots like that...Have a good day..."
You have added moron to your ignore list

OUCH :shock: Bitter much? I agree I dont much like this idea and like I posted before IF this ever happened I would want a HELL of an AA point to make up for it.

LOADING....Please Wait.
You have entered The Nexus.
/shout Ranger with AAs porting to all Norath for donations! PST.
Soandso tell you "Hey, bring a fellow Ranger to Surefall for Girffs?"
You tell Soandso "Sure, come on over, in the middle of Nexus."
Soandso says "Hail Enfiniti!"
You invite Soandso into the group.
Soandso tell the group "How are the new AA ports?"
You tell the group "I LOVE them, one more AA and I get all the Luclin ports!"
Soandso tell the group "Sweet, I think I'm going to get ports before Endless Quiver"
...........NEED I SAY MORE!

[Sebilrazen]

I'm not a bitter player at all, ask anyone that sees me on Drinal, I don't even care if they do make forage an AA ability, it's a game. But the idea of demanding it is just crazy, Like the post above this one and below my long winded scenario, If Verant caves to the demand for an AA for forage, what's to stop rangers from saying "Hey, tolan's is a ranger item and it ports, so why don't we get port abilities with aa?" and as a druid I could respond by saying "Hey for aa points how about you let me raise my track to 200, and use the filter, I mean I can track, So why not?" This is, if it happens the final nail in EQ's coffin, I mean look at it this way, what's to stop them from putting in damage mitigation aa's so dru/clr/shm can now tank? or an aa that allows druids to be at one with nature all the time i.e. no agro from any animal at any time, even the planar ones I personally would love to see them allow more dragon eggs to be foraged, glutting the market for PotC poles, and a cheaper way to skill to 160

I'm just pointing out that I have a druid as my main, the only thing i've sold from foraging is tea leaves, that's it, everything else I either destroy, eat, use or give to the appropriate race to work on their cultural recipes, I may charge a small fee, but usually I barter, 2 stacks of morning dew for a mistletoe cutting sickle isn't that bad considering I specifically look for smiths still skilling and give them 40 chances to skill up, my acorns and plains pebbles, I make into oil and dust for future use

I also have a Beastlord, cleric and enchanter, all on the same box that i switch between when I need their respective skills(imbuing and enchanting) and melee fix with pet support

Now i'm just rambling so i'll stop...for now

[Lilosh]

There's 2 things at work here. One is the desire to have differentiated classes. The other is the desire to avoid stupid timesinks and keep the casual player interested.

To pick one example: adding PoK stones didn't add succor and evac to any new classes. This means I don't have to spend a half hour running to Cabalis to turn in bone chips. It doesn't mean I'm going to go wandering in to deep chardok without a druid or wizard, unless I'm feeling very crazy or I have top notch CC on hand (and I can summon corpses if it gets too hairy). This is a good change.

Ahh.. You say time sink, I say interdependancy.

Most people say interdependancy when they mean my class should do cool stuff and others' shouldn't. Don't confuse interdependancy with dependance. What advantages do warriors gain that makes them better tradeskillers?

Well, How am I not supposed to confuse Interdependancy with dependance WHEN ITS PART OF THE SAME WORD. Inter-dependance, means that people are dependant on each other. Dont make dependance sound like some horrible brain-afflicting disaease.

Dont whine that your enchanter, shadow knight or wizard can't go into a forest or some other outdoor zone, and tell which of the THOUSANDS of plants in the zone possibly has the stupidly rare yew leaf on it. If it takes a druid a fair amount of time, with 200 forage skill, to find a couple, then
your Warrior would very likely take all day and all night to possible find one.

And what advantages do warriors have? Well for one, they have the highest potential strength of any class, making them some of the best smiths. Druids are in tune with the magic of nature, and know more about nature then anyone else alive. Rangers included, as a subclass of druid, in a different way. Enchanters make magic items. Enchanter ENCHANT. Not every class is going to have something that makes them super cool for tradeskills. And the part that I bolded is just non-constructive, and bitter-sounding.

If getting foraged items is a "Stupid timesink", then so is CR and Getting a rez. It would appear that a good solution to this "Stupid timesink" would be to allow all classes the ability to summon and ressurect their own corpses.

Yeah, I bet Sony will never add graveyards to the game that corpses automatically appear at. Guess you're not the only one that thinks CRs are a stupid timesink.

Want to try a relevant example of a stupid timesink that's still in game? Keys don't count.

When they add graveyards to all zones, and not just high-end planar zones, then I will admit that the CR timesink is gone. Until I can summon and ressurect my own corpse, then I will view CR in the same manner you view foraging. I depend on clerics and necromancers the same way you depend on clerics and druids. My referring to it as a "timesink" is an exaggeration. Foraging is no more a time sink then CR and rezzing. Depending on another class doesn't make you weak.


As much as *I* would like a game where I didn't have to rely on others, I realize that Everquest is not that game


-Lilosh