No Jewel Craft Mastery AA for Non-Enchanters?

[Dumpty]

Clearly there has been a mistake. Enchanters are the only ones that can enchant ore for smithing. smithing mastery must have been meant to be a chanter only AA also. /boggle

[Koru]

So, would that make baking druid/ranger only, with only the first baking mastery available to iksar and bards?

[Kida]

jcm3

There are advantages and disadvantages to every class and race and religon. JCM was very nice for a while but it will rapidly decline in value as pop jewelry declines in value. Possibly the refining in OoW will make a noticable difference with JCM again, maybe not.

Katashi, your comparison to high end jewelcraft to alchemy are poor because it doesnt take into account the time it takes to farm those items. Sure an earth ring will sell for 30-40k, but the materials are not store bought. If you purchase those items in the bazaar, then you may very well lose your margin completely.

About your comment on gem studed chains: "for many of us, there simply is no other path to 250 tailoring". I think most people can hunt othmir.

Lastly, "I can not believe folks compare JC to Alchemy with a straight face" In oow no one but shaman and rogues can finish doing the OoW augments. Everyone can do jewelcraft, but rogues and shaman with JC can be a one stop shop. Am I going to complain about it? no.. I recognized along time ago that not all classes get everything exactly equal.

[Nolrog]

There are advantages and disadvantages to every class and race and religon. JCM was very nice for a while but it will rapidly decline in value as pop jewelry declines in value. Possibly the refining in OoW will make a noticable difference with JCM again, maybe not.

I would think that the new stone cuts will make a huge difference in JCM again. Most people would go to a chanter with JCM3 for the stone cuts, because of the very high failure rate. The trivial of the radient cuts is 351 according to a few people that posted on the OOW submission forum. That gives me, a non chanter with 250 skill a 40.25% chance to succeed. Someone with JCM3 would have a 70.125% chance to succeed (according to the calculator on the main page.) That's quite a significant difference. So much so, that I wouldn't even try the combine myself, even if I had several to work with.

Heck, I even pulled my chanter out of mothballs, and started playing him again because of this (well, for research too, but that's not as much of a problem, since I had friends that could research for me.)

[Akishka]

Because everyone is capable of gaining points in this skill up to 250 if they so desire.

No one moans about those because (unless you are of those classes) you can't level those tradeskills at all. The tradeskill mastery AAs seem incomplete to anyone who has Jewelcraft at 250. If jewelcraft was an 'enchanter only' tradeskill, then I doubt there would be any moaning, but it's not. The JCM AAs are enchanter only, that is where the difference lies.

It's not a class-specific tradeskill, like poison-making or alchemy. People have a problem seeing the logic as to why the tradeskill mastery AAs for this tradeskill (which all classes have access to) are restricted to Enchanters.

Jewelcraft isn't a class-specific tradeskill. The JCM AAs are class-specific.

Just bringing up a point for kicks and giggles, it sounds like making Jewelcraft enchanter only (with the appropriate refunds to every non enchanter of course) would solve this problem as well as taking away the Enchanter specific AA. What are the thoughts on this?

Note, I quoted Sharrow because it was handy and he said it so well but I've seen this theme repeated a few times now.

[Sharrow]

If you now make Jewelcraft enchanter-only (which maybe it should have been from the start, that point could be valid), what refunds do you think would be appropriate for me, a wizard with 250 skill? I'll happily take 60k pp thankyou very much =)

[Akishka]

I dunno, thats why I left it at 'appropraite' - 60k doesn't seem unreasonable to me though. Of course, you have to answer that question no matter which side you take things from.

[Maevenniia]

Just bringing up a point for kicks and giggles, it sounds like making Jewelcraft enchanter only (with the appropriate refunds to every non enchanter of course) would solve this problem as well as taking away the Enchanter specific AA. What are the thoughts on this?

Refunds of all the platinum people have spent to increase this skill would be impossible to calculate, no two people get the same results, and no one could refund of all the time spent doing combines to GET 250 skill. Thus, refunding chanters 18 AA for JCM3 (plus giving them a substitute, meaningful AA in replacement) is a more logical and simpler way to solve it. (Or as I alternately suggested if SOE can't think of a replacement AA, give chanters JCM3 for free and refund all chanters who bought it their points as well.)

[Akishka]

Well but if we want to talk about return on time, how many Chanters chose to go into Jewelcrafting under the assumption they would have an exclusive advantage at the higher ends? How many Chanters were leveled up on the basis that they would be able to tradeskill better than others if they could just get the levels and AAs? Shouldn't these people have something in return for their time as well? Its not just AAs we are talking about, these guys also GM'd the skill using the same amount of time and effort everybody else did and now we are discussing what would wind up as a significant change in their marketablility. If I was a Chanter and you took away my major selling point, I'd sure want a little pp refund myself.

The idea of giving the AA to Chanters free could work very well too though, 18 AA would be sufficent compensatition...

[Delores Mulva]

I consider it lucky that I can jewel craft at all - I've always thought of it as an enchanter's special tradeskill, even if not class-specific. There's no other trade that is so completely dependent on one class to produce anything of value. I would expect SOE to back the enchanters and simply remove the ability to gain further skill in it from everyone else if push came to shove.

As for the alchemist, you'll never see a high-margin potion until potions are made with items that are rare drops and have effects worth the cost. Since SOE is opposed to putting really powerful effects on potions, you'll likely never see a high-margin potion.

[Qaladar Bragollach]

They'd have to fix all JC recipes that take no drop components or result in a no drop finished product.... plus they'd have to completely change parts of Aid Grimel and the Coldain Shawl quests (and probably other quests too).

Removing JC from all non-enchanters is probably not terribly feasible.

[Madriu]

What about giving all the rest of the classes the regular JC AA...

And giving Chanters an AA that boosts the original AA further.

Chanters would still have an edge on the competition, while retaining their old AA and giving the rest of us some help too.

[Flendon]

What about giving all the rest of the classes the regular JC AA...

And giving Chanters an AA that boosts the original AA further.

Chanters would still have an edge on the competition, while retaining their old AA and giving the rest of us some help too....

Now thats a good idea.

[loramin]

What about giving all the rest of the classes the regular JC AA...

/applaud
The only downside I see to this is that it would make it JC just a bit "easier" than other tradeskills, since it would have two aa's and all the other skills would only have one. However, it would only be "easier" for chanters who wanted to spend an additional 18 AA, and if the devs were truly concerned that doing this would somehow let JC items in to the game too fast, they could just raise the trivial on every 250+ trivial JC recipe by a point or two or something.

I'm going to /feedback this, hope others will too.

[Genella]

How many of you actually cared before the tradeskill augs came out?