Cestus Dmg/Dly : This will be Nerfed soon I Imagine

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

Just where does ithe stuff for it drop though, you need 7, 8 or more flags to get? it will likely be a 335 skill combine, so are you non- ubers ready to pay 50k per attempt? 34/28 IS the best dropable, but the BoT tower weapons are better, so anyone with a 65 chanter/cleric friend can go farm better.

Greater Storm watchers horn, greatstaff of the 4 winds.

even if damagis maybe close, both those are 100hp weapons, there are 0hps on these, meaning max of 40, with aug

best dropable 2hdr in game atm is the WMBS which goes for 5-10K.

Uber guilders will be able to make 40k for a while, then prolly settle for 25k for a good bit of the expansion

I don't yet how anyone that would actually USE the weapon would afford to make it.


Dai

At least if I get bored farming ornate for my twink, I know what to farm, to buy the ornate. the Tradeskill smith that is NOT a high end raider isn't getting anything here

[drtyaty]

Originally posted by Arhallia
This blathering about "you should have a good market with the higher-end weapons" is BS.

I suppose that the Elemental-flagged smiths have a "good market" with the other 90% of EQ players with elemental gear as well. Now the people who manage to get to Kod'Taz can also be the 5% that farms and owns 95% of the wealth in the game -- again.

(A) If you can manage to acquire the ingredients for these weapons, you already possess (or your guildmates possess) FAR FAR superior weapons to what these could possibly be, given what we're seeing on the Pale Velium, and the "others may not be impressed" comments from the devs.

(B) Therefore the ingredients will be sold to the rich Time-flagged players, by the rich Time-flagged players for their twinks to use, or to enhance their monopoly fortunes, taking all tradable items out of reach of the non-Time flagged player in the economy. just like the elemental temper ingredients....just like the elemental temper ingredients and armor.

...why bother giving people with far superior gear sole access to ingredients of weapons that they will not use, but instead sell? Where is the "a hard working smith should be able to forge his/her own reasonable gear, with drops from zones he can survive in"?

The truth boils down to this: The high-end GoD smithed gear is nothing more than another expensive tradable item set which flagged players can sell to the rest of us. The only smiths that need even bother with GoD are those that can reach Kod'Taz (10-20% of players tops, most of whom are GM smiths thanks to their ability to PL their smithing skills with money, not some serious time investment relative to early GM smiths). End of story for the casual player.

In a sense, they've turned all "worthwhile" smithing into a set of "chance to fail" quests, where the quest containers are available to all, but the quest items are only obtainable by the elite few and the obscenely rich.

To me this is a message from SOE that they couldn't care less about the casual crowd, and that will probably extend to EQ2.

This is by far the most logical thing I read in this entire thread. Yes, I am in a guild that is flagged for elementals (just got there), but I do not have the time, like the small minority of folks, to play 6-10 hours/day.

IMO, from what I have seen, all tradeskillers, whatever their trade, got nothing from GoD. It appears to me to be nothing more than another time sink, poorly thought out just to obtain a quick $30+ handout to enable us to spend countless hours to kill more mobs of a different variety while trying to navigate through Sony's flagging hell that a larger majority of us will never succeed in accomplishing.

Thus far, I haven't even visited GOD and am beginning to wonder why the hell I bought it other than to be able to visit the zone when asked to do so.

Great job Sony!!!!!!!!!!

[drtyaty]

WMBS v. Windblade

Isn't Windblade better than WMBS?

Thanks,

[Cantatus]

Before this thread veers offtopic: let's please keep this discussion civil. If you want to complain about the GoD expansion, unfairness to casual players, or rant about how useless these weapons are, please post someplace else.

Please don't make me lock this thread.

[Abazagaroth]

For a level 65 with today's equipment and buffs the modal number is not (2xdmg + DB)/delay (I have no clue why the above poster is adding a 1 for min hit, that is just plain wrong). It is (3xdmg + DB)/delay. This is WITHOUT avatar or a lot of worn attack, at which point the multiplier goes up (and the impact of damage bonus drops).

6/10 versus 18/20 for an average level 65 comes out to:

6/10 = 3.1
18/20 = 3.35

Considering any monk/beast that is using the weapons off VZ likely has a lot of vengence, the cestus starts to lose even more appeal, and the stats simply suck with no hp/ac.

The "Sweet spot" for damage bonus is delay 30, btw, not 28. 28 is just the highest 2h delay that receives the 2h damage bonus at all.

Also, as to WMBS to Windblade, the WMBS has a very very slight edge in DPS if you are hitting a mob from the back, and are not casting. For the biggest market of windblade (paladins and shadowknights) the added damage taken from ripostes, the lower damage GIVEN by your ripostes, and the dps lost to casting between swings make the WMBS a clear loser for the tanking knight. However, the WMBS is obviously the better buy cash wise versus performance (of course, with beserkers, the prices on both have skyrocketed). If you have the plat to spend though, windblade performs better in actual usage, AND, as your attack gets higher it starts to outperform based on ratio alone.

A 34/28 weapon is ok, for selling to very casual players that can't get anything better, and still in actual usage would perform *at best* as good as windblade for a tanking player, while taking more damage due to ripostes, but if it costs anymore than 10% or so above a WMBS there will be no market, as people that can afford it will still go windblade and people that can't afford it will go WMBS. I imagine beserkers will buy these the most.

[Kronepsis]

Originally posted by Abazagaroth
The "Sweet spot" for damage bonus is delay 30, btw, not 28. 28 is just the highest 2h delay that receives the 2h damage bonus at all.

In other words, downgrading the metal to platinum actually makes the weapon better? O_o Would probably increase the delay to 32 though.

[Zhao]

Anywho

Dunno where I got that modal, been using it so long can't remember... It's always come out correct for me in the past however. With the trends on high attack effecting dps though, I'd believe that would come out in that order.

For a non-raiding monk though, those claws still come out better (using your modal) when combined with another weapon that is buyable, than anything else out there. Using a full augmented orb+club bought from LDoN would not come out as good as using these claws +the fully augmented orb in off hand.

At this point, knowing where the ore drops (in the zones past the trials) I am doubting I'll ever see this for sale, and don't plan on ever buying them. Guessing they'll be put up there in price with the stonehide armor tailored out of PoE. Most people won't get there, so those that do can charge what they want.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

WMBS is the highest DPS dropble weapon of the pop expansion.
DPS out put of the 2 best pop dropables:


War Marshal's Bladed Staff
94,75
66,80

Windblade
92,05
64,89


First number DPS at 100% haste, 1500 atk with an SK at level 65
Second is the same except 41% haste

Source is here http://www.armageddon.de/SHD2.htm


In compairson, a group of 3 moderately equiped people can get in BoT (65 Cleric, 65 enc, and whomever is going to use it)

Greatstaff of the Four Winds
108,80
77,37



the 2hp that was shown would DPS out at about 102-105 (100% haste) I expect.


Dai


Best is not useless, when I get interesed in GoD, I will be able to clean house and buy whantever I want for my twink, my wifes twink, some RL friends, whomever, when I smith these.

These are very sub par to 95% of the people making them, and is nothing more then going to make the rich richer.

Up until BD cultural, a mid level smith could do what the best raider smith could do. The raider always did have the advantage, IMO, as it should be in farmoing supplies, but we never had a lock on them, nor should we.

Edit, web page has been updated, no longer is showing 100% haste on anything but 1800 attack

[Abazagaroth]

I bought a WMBS just to test its dps. Using 30 days worth of logs in LDoN with WMBS versus Windblade, I had over 3 DPS more with windblade. But like I said, that is real world performance that requires real parsing (not going to katta to wail on bankers for 24 hours), and I also tank 99% of the time in my groups, chain stunning and sometimes also main healing, so I am casting all the time. The greater delay on windblade means less DPS lost to casting.

Honestly though, its the riposte issue that keeps me using windblade (I've passed on GSotFW several times, its just too freaking ugly) until I get a nice sword from a raid (I want a dang sword, heh, a nice looking one =P vanity does matter LOL). I mostly do LDoN hards for experience and the mobs riposte a LOT, and WMBS gives 60% more ripostes than WB. Obviously, following that line of thinking you can just turn off attack entirely and greatly reduce riposte damage taken (and some people do just that on named mobs in GoD or upper planes), but when its a comparison of relatively equivalent DPS weapons, the riposte issue is a big factor for me.

There are so many issues like that to affect prices on weapons. Simple name recognition even plays a large role, as I was never able to get equivalent prices on tae ew weapons as droppable ones that were worse, because people didn't look for them. Considering the nature of the places this stuff drops, they just should be better. It wouldn't even bother me if the subcomponents were droppable and the final weapons were a lot better but no drop, requiring people to get to GM status to make and use them.

I really don't think the SoE developers "get it", they never have with tradeskills, and I doubt they will. Blue diamond cultural was definitely too good when it first came out, but with PoP stuff that came out later is actually ended up fitting in ok, and is now falling by the wayside with ldon. Just about everything else has been either too rare or too poor stat wise to be relevant.

[oerin trubble]

Go to Sol C and get Shadowflame.
A great sword with output close to Windblade.
Nice graphic. Good looking sword.
A huge look to it, as a 2hander should.
No drop. Not hard to get.
Doesn't hit as hard as Windblade, but misses less often (or so it seems to me)

[wombat]

The 20/30 1hb Plat version was selling for 500-2k with 5 on sale in Quellious bazaar last night FYI.

My Pally uses the 45/40 2hp Heavy Windlance btw, slower is better imop, and I like the stats on it, better than the Windblade for my purposes.

[Sunfire]

Originally posted by SilverfurMangycoat
For those of you missing this on the first page, Maddoc said:



He's saying the shimmering ore/shimmering nihilite weapons will be marketable, not the aligned ore/pale nihilite items you are seeing made now.

Silverfur Mangycoat
63 DRU of The Nameless
<The Fools Republic>

And I dont believe him at all - not 1 bit. There have only been a few marketable tradeskill items ever in this game: POTC earring, high end cultural smithed items, PoP idols, and PoP JC items. This was finally a chance for smiths to have something nice to sell that I've been getting requests for - and by the way, as a wood elf smith this is the first time I havent felt like I wasted all the money and time in smithing just to finish a couple nice quests.

I'm sick of these nerfs and no I dont agree with the "its way out line and unbalancing argument" - if you cant deal with the power of the item then raise the rec level but making it just as 100% USELESS as the other weapons of the class is a pathetic cop-out.

[Abazagaroth]

Go to Sol C and get Shadowflame.
A great sword with output close to Windblade.
Nice graphic. Good looking sword.
A huge look to it, as a 2hander should.
No drop. Not hard to get.
Doesn't hit as hard as Windblade, but misses less often (or so it seems to me)

That weapon is like 42/44, with like +1 bane or something like that, it is NOT anywhere near windblade or WMBS.

It most certainly does NOT miss less often. ALL weapons have the same hit % for the same classes. Nothing changes that, at all, except the avoidance of a mob. More attack doesn't change it, and weapon doesn't change it.

[Cantatus]

Seems like certain people are going to continue to rant in this thread. This thread has also seemed to stray from the original topic pretty far. Because of this, I'm bumping the thread to PSR.

Thanks,
Cantatus

[khanthal]

Reality check...

ok...REALITY ChECK...for those comparing this to dropped weapons like gso4w...

We have a lovely boss spawn that can be duoed as some have said or one grouped as long as the combo is right and you know what you're doing. Fine.

He has a total of 8 drops. Lets assume he drops the staff 1/2 the time. this is wrong. It's much less than half with 8 drops. But we're making this a nice world where everyone gets what they want.

From what I understand he pops once a day. I'm not sure on that and info about his true pop rate is welcome. It's probably slower. If it's faster, well, gs04w doesnt drop 1/2 the time so it probably works out right.

Ok so that means at MAX farming you get 3-4 of these per server, per week. And they are NODROP.

Someone was asking for similar things for smithing...ok...fine... plus of course you'll want it droppable so you can sell it. Worse, as a droppable gear it will never leave the economy. A gs04w when it gets replaced will get tossed to a tribute master and never get used again. Your crafted item will get resold or passed down.

Ok then. So the drops you need, ore, whatever, should net you enough to make 3-4 of them on the ENTIRE SERVER for a week of everyone MAX farming. Talk about rare drops. That's everyone max farming, on the server, for 3-4 a week.

That's equality to gs04w. You don't want that. You're asking for a far more common thing you can sell lots of. That's unbalanced. The only way to possibly make it slightly more balanced is to make it require raids to get the components and time/ele gear.