Cestus Dmg/Dly : This will be Nerfed soon I Imagine

[Aethn]

Pale Gemmed Cestus
MAGIC
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 16
DMG: 5
STR: +2 WIS: +2 INT: +2 AGI: +2
SV FIRE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 4: empty
Slot 2, type 7: empty


Velium Cestus
MAGIC
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 11
DMG: 3
STR: +5 WIS: +5 INT: +5 AGI: +5
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 4: empty
Slot 2, type 7: empty


Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus
MAGIC
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 11
DMG: 5
STR: +5 WIS: +5 INT: +5 AGI: +5
SV FIRE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, type 4: empty
Slot 2, type 7: empty


I have a very, very hard time believing SOE will let these weapons stand as they are. Am I reading that correctly? 5/11 hand to hand? In the primary hand, that would allow a secondary weapon, of a signficantly greater dmg, to fire off an insane amount of time (secondary dly is ignore when dual wield is calculated, so only dmg is considered).

Did they not remove the 3/10 Mosscovered Twig from Everquest because it was determined to be the ultimate weapon?? 5/11 is probably one of the top 3 weapons of all time when hasted. Its the sole reason the Mosscovered Twig was first nerfed to secondary only then removed entirely from the game.

I anticipate two things here. This will be quickly nerfed, or Blacksmiths will be richer then Donald Trump selling these weapons. We wont even talk about the fact this item has TWO aug slots.

[Abazagaroth]

Since when did offhand weapons have their delay ignored? =P

Their delay is factored in, they just do not get a damage bonus, which is why the ratio (dmg/dly) and procs is all that matters on offhand. A 10/10 offhand weapon is the same as 100/100 offhand.

Its not really overpowered. It was overpowered in kunark when it dropped from a mid 30s goblin and 9/19 weapons were amazing. It is not overpowered now when it takes group(s) or 65s that are decently geared and 1/1+ ratio weapons are fairly common. Hell, from ldon you can get a 16/19 mainhand weapon.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Ya, the issue was mostly the damage bonus on the twig. With such a low delay, the damage bonus was being applied *very* frequently, upping the damage considerably from what the raw dmg/dly ratio would imply. Thus the "fix" was to nerf the ratio and make it offhand only, so the damage bonus was no longer an issue at all.

Since then there have been a number of (upward) adjustments to the damage bonus formula, dramatically increasing the bonus for weapons with delay over 28, and for two handers. I don't claim to know by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm guessing the moss-covered-twig like weapons probably aren't nearly as uber in comparison anymore.

Just for a quick test, duel wielding 5/11's comes out to around 983 DPM (by Luthair's, warrior with the defaults - 0 haste, lvl 50, 100str), whereas a 35/35 comes in at 1366 DPM. Things like the Widebladed Greatsword (a 35/35) are still reasonably common.

[Maddoc-the-Wayfarer]

The values aren't anything excessively awesome (by todays standards), however, they are incorrect. Those items are intended to be on par with their 1hs/1hb cousins.

They'll be changed to something a bit more appropriate in the next update.

-- Maddoc

[Laeelin]

In the primary hand, that would allow a secondary weapon, of a signficantly greater dmg, to fire off an insane amount of time (secondary dly is ignore when dual wield is calculated, so only dmg is considered).

Duelwield doesnt have it's chance to "go off" when the main hand attacks, it has the chance to "goes off" when the delay of the secondary weapon is ready again.

Primary and Secondary weapons have nothing to do with eachother =)

Thats a common missunderstanding though.

The huge advantage for fast weapons is the damage bonus for primary weapons..

5/11 become 13+5/11 or 18/11 in primary(at 65)..
10/20 weapon = 23/20
13/17 weapon = 26/17
so as you can see thats actually better than a 13/17 in pure dps IN PRIMARY at 65..

[Abazagaroth]

NO

Damage bonus is a flat number added to EVERY successful swing. A 5/11 weapon does not become 18/11 with the damage bonus. It means that on every successful hit a base 5 damage is run through the mitigation tables, and then a 13 dmg is added to whatever it is.

That means if it would hit for 1, it becomes 14, if it would hit for 20, it becomes 33.

[Laeelin]

your right ..

It's a lot more complicated than I wrote it as..


It's not a ramdom up to 13 damage added on to weapon damage..
It's a set 13 damage added on the final damage..

Thats actually probally better than 13 to the weapon damage, but I dont have the time to do the math right now...

thanks for catching that=)

[Dunthor Warsmith]

The formulae Luthair's use, which are reasonably accurate (debated on the pally boards):

maxHit = ((strength+skill)/100)*primaryDamage+bonus
magicNumberHit = 2*primaryDamage + bonus
minHit = 0.5 + bonus + primaryDamage/10

All of which are rounded down. The magic number is the mode average hit (most often occuring). While this doesn't take raw ATK into account (which moves the magic hit higher), it serves for useful comparisons between weapons. The secondary/offhand formulae are the same, except they do not have the bonus term, at all.

A 5/11 onehander (damage bonus maxes at 8) would be dramatically different than a 13/11 offhand (ie no damage bonus), since the weapon's damage gets put through calculations (doubled, tenthed, or scaled) whereas the bonus is always just added in plain..

[Tingteng]

So where do we find the bar of aligned steel?

[Aina]

Anyone have a valid combination on recipe for this item? one on msgboard isnt working..

[Aethn]

I stand corrected on the off hand issue. I was always under the impression it was only related to teh priamry hand then make a successful check against Dual Wield.

Although I still feel the weapons are too good, which Maddoc agrees with it seems and says he will correct them.

Edit: Just wanted to clarify. I would love these to stay like they are also. But if they did then the other types of weapons would need to be similar, thus createing some truely astonishing 1Hslasher, or piercers or 2H weps. Or the other side, if this is slated for nerf, do it now. I dont want us smiths getting a black eye for selling a Cestus for 40k+ (thats cheap for this weapon) to later be nerfed. I think our buyers wont trust us anymore after that, hurting over all buisness.

[Laeelin]

Although I still feel the weapons are too good, which Maddoc agrees with it seems and says he will correct them.

They are very good.

Much better than the stats look =)

I would need to see how hard they are to make and how good the GoD weapons are before i call them "to good" =)

Unlike most weapons, they self regulate though..

it's the 13 point damage bonus at 65 that makes them so good..

The 0 damage bonus at level 1 would make them much less impressive (still very nice though)

[Tingteng]

put 2 5/11 on a level one monk and you would probably change your mind real quick.

[Aandaie]

Look at the classes.
Its not an issue because of those classes, so its likely not going to be nerfed.

If it was 11 speed and 5 damage, for a dual wielding warrior, it would be headed for a nerf then.

If I remember right, hand to hand items are also calculated differently or something. So its not like an 11 speed 5 damage 1hand slash.

[Tingteng]

I doubt seriously that it would matter if it was h2h or 1hs. In fact I have heard that if you put an equal dmg wep in the hand of a monk or a warr, the monk will hit very slightly harder. They are more of a dps class as we know. This could very possibly end up being secondary only as the twig was.