*grumbles* I am learning to hate the words ......

[Lilosh]

I can see where you are coming from, and I can see where perhaps I mis-understood you. I concede that getting trapped in Hate or Growth, if no options at all were available, would suck.
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But I also see where giving 20 castings of Gate to non-gating classes sets a precedent, Whether there is Dire need or not.

With the options already in place, I dont see where there was a need for a gate clicky. Going LD in the middle of a raid should be a rare enough occurance that you should be able to keep a Thurg gate potion or something for such emergencies, and replace it as needed.


Regardless, I can see why the Melee's are drooling for it, though.


-Lilosh

[Axterix EnObelix]

Re: Poor item design

And as far as gate meaning you're not trapped. This really isn't always true for clerics. Since I typically bind outside dungeons, before I go in to grind, and the dungeons often border zones that are equally unsafe, I find myself trapped at the zone in, Clerics suck at travelling, and even with Jboots, I often find myself on the verge of death, just getting back from the dungeon. A right click invis item, that is cleric usable, would sure help solve that problem.

Support your local tinkerer. Gnomish Vanishing Device. 5 charges, rechargable. Get a collapsed toolkit as well and in 3 slots, you can carry 105 invis charges. The price per charge used to be equal to invis potions, but now with class 5 mana batteries dropping in PoI, you can buy them for considerably cheaper in the bazaar

As for melees and gate...lower the cost of the shaman potions. Be a good change for shamans and melees.

[Glatius2]

Going LD in the middle of a raid should be a rare enough occurance that you should be able to keep a Thurg gate potion or something for such emergencies, and replace it as needed.

/nod Although Thurgadin gate can have its own problems when you've helped kill the dain a few times. :b

[kiztent]

Well a FD item isnt going to let my chanter tank, but it would sure be convienent when he gets agro.

Playing Innoruuks Advocate,
-Lilosh

Whirr. Abuse. I don't even want to think about how abusable a clicky FD item is.

I'll leave you with these 2 thoughts:

1 - FD epic cleric
2 - main tasher/slower with FD

I'm not even going to mention what that would do to pulling.

Brain hurts. Abuse. Whirr.

[Sinuuyanea Nocturne]

1) There are vendored gate potions, albeit expensive ones.

At 1kpp apice? Eww...

2) Thurg Gate Potions aren't too hard to get.

True, but...some people dont have the patience to do pottery, and not everyone is on Coldain faction...

3) Shamans brew 4 seperate Gate potions, If I recall correctly.

Everfrost, Field of Bone, Feerrott, and Innothule, I believe. Usually sells for 500-1kpp apice, but I dont know the number of charges.

As far as the necklace itself is concerned, while the 2nd (I already have better than the first) would be a huge upgrade, I would bow out and let a tank have it. I often forget that not everyone has the ability to gate, not everyone has Coldain faction, and not everyone has 1kpp that they can burn on a gate potion, and quite often the group I'm in has had to fight its way back to the zone in for the non-gaters. However, if I were indeed working on this, I would have made it known, just like whenever I go hunting any tradeskilled components, so they dont get looted/destroyed.

[Qutie]

There are a lot of valid points here...but, one thing remains, this is a quest item, and as such, anyone can choose to do the quest. As a cleric, I will be doing it... do I have gate? Oh yes.... have I even had Gate memmed in the past year or so... once... when I was told to, as we worked our way to COH for Plane of Mischief. I have too many spells I HAVE to have up to be ABLE to have up Gate and be comfortable. This is before I even Look at the stats on the item, which really are a Lot better than what I have on. For me, Gate spell is something I use to get around, rarely something I use to escape, tho' I know it's meaning is different for others without the ability.

Thurgadin gate potion takes about... an hour,maybe two to get skill up in and other than being on that faction, there really isn't a reason for anyone to not have one on them. As for shammie potions and vendor bought, I wouldn't be able to put out the PP for these on a regular basis.

Most important to me, at least... this item is NOT a gate to bind point, but to POK, which allows me to keep my bind in POM and still get around, or possibly still get back to my group if an emergency arose and I had to gate. ( If DA or DB are still up, I can Cast, sit, mem and ... hope I can get a Gate off otherwise...rarely successful...and, there's that run back from PoM...)

So, when I have the time, I will be doing this quest... but my group will know ahead of time that this is why I'm here and what pieces I am here for. If we're all there for the same reason, we'll farm and /random, unless we're going for a particular person. It isn't that hard to set things up ahead of time to avoid strife.

Hell, if there were a quest for a clicky replenishable invis item, I'd do that quest too... I have a GVD... and it was high priced and... basically sucks (sorry tinkerers, but it does... it wears off, it fails, and it's way too expensive to use regularly as needed... I've run across Maiden's Eye and had it fail 3 times... then need to charge a battery... ) but thats another post for another day

As for the person that looted a no drop item, friend or not, she'd have been dropped from the group with an explanation. There is no excuse for greed like that, especially when others were there for the same item.

[Veldin Darkfire]

Any WIS caster can go and get themselves a spirit/faith stone and have no need of this device except as an extra convienece.

INT casters excpet for wizards have it harder because we don't get faithstones and they could have just as easily created "knowledge stones" that would port to any of the main libraries across norrath (akanon, erudin, neriak, katta, pok)

As for clerics being in trouble without invis, as was mentioned you can buy inv pots and the invs device. Try being a mage without root / DA / stun etc... our defense is gate if we don't have a pet up. We also don't get to wear plate to help mitigate damage.

Personally I can see why the melee want this item but they should ALL spend the 1 hour and 60p it takes to get pottery to 120 to make thurg potions. Not doing so is just lazy on their part.

There is a mage spell that summons a 1 shot gate to pok now. IT takes a reagent that costs sonewhere around 150 plat and is made by a shaman. The problem with the spell is the item is no rent so its nigh useless.

I don't know about you but I dont have room nor the plat to just toss these to any melee who gets his / her ass stuck somewhere and being no rent its not like they can carry one because if they go LD they may not get back on before it poofs. Useless spell. They could have done the following to make it better.

No Drop, Lore, Targeted just like the new mod rods. Cut the reagent cost down to about 50p. THAT would make the spell worthwhile for trapped melee.

Veldin

[Glatius2]

Personally I can see why the melee want this item but they should ALL spend the 1 hour and 60p it takes to get pottery to 120 to make thurg potions. Not doing so is just lazy on their part.

I've made the thurgadin gate potion. Since my thurgadin faction has been ruined by helping my former guild kill the dain several times, its impossible for me to make any more of the potions, until I fix my faction. Claiming that its an easy fix is a falsehood. It takes hours apon hours of killing frost giants to just get from KOS to dubious. I'll fix it eventually, but in the mean time, thurgadin gate potions are out.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the problems a pure melee encounters with being trapped someplace as a trival concern or easily corrected, many times its not true.

[Zacatac]

Go to Thurgadin, learn pottery to 140. Easy to do, all vendor sold stuff. Will take you half a day.

Go to Crystal caverns, gather items needed for Thurg gate potions. Anyone 45+ can probably solo everything needed.

Go back to Thurg and make the vials. Keep 1 with you and go make it into the potion, the other empty vials go in your bank bag along with some extra small pieces of velium.

Anytime you use the potion, immediately grab an empty vial and 2 small pieces of velium and make a new potion. Go back to CC when you run out of vials.

The PoK portal stone is just around the corner from Thurg, as is the Nexus portal. From Thurg you can pretty much travel anywhere. Therefore, gate to thurgadin potions are still the easist way to go, IMO. My bard keeps 1 all the time. In fact I still have 1 on my magician even though he can gate just in case I want a trick trip to thurg.

[Lilosh]

Personally I can see why the melee want this item but they should ALL spend the 1 hour and 60p it takes to get pottery to 120 to make thurg potions. Not doing so is just lazy on their part.

I've made the thurgadin gate potion. Since my thurgadin faction has been ruined by helping my former guild kill the dain several times, its impossible for me to make any more of the potions, until I fix my faction. Claiming that its an easy fix is a falsehood. It takes hours apon hours of killing frost giants to just get from KOS to dubious. I'll fix it eventually, but in the mean time, thurgadin gate potions are out.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the problems a pure melee encounters with being trapped someplace as a trival concern or easily corrected, many times its not true.

If I recall, nobody starts out KoS in Velious...

So if I may, I would like to narrow down the problem you seem to be championing.

Ther is a group of people who on rare-ish occasions go LD on raids. They are trapped somewhere.

The people are the non-guilded Melees, who dont want to spend 1k on store bought gate potions before a Plane Raid, Who dont know a shaman, and have willingly burned their Coldain Faction.


Does that summarize the group that should have automatic NBG rights to loot this item? Because if so, I have to scratch my head and say that I do not see your logic, but your opinions are yours to have. And not mine to belittle.


And we can all agree to disagree.


-Lilosh

[Lothay]

This thread is dancing the line.

I think you should call it quits while everyone is still on their best behavior.

~ Lothay

[Glatius2]

Lilosh, you seem to want to put words in my mouth. Please point out the sentence or paragraph where I say that gate difficulties entitle pure melee or hybrids the right to loot said quest items on a NBG basis while leaving the casters out. Because I didn't say it.

I'm just saying that gate is important to non-gaters, is that really so hard to understand? And while you might like to say, well the fix is XYZ, its so very easy, I'm pointing out that its not always as easy as you seem to see it.

I don't really think we would have any disagreement if you'd played a pure melee or hybrid on raids where often your only way out is a gate potion or another member of the raid party. You'd understand the difficulties better. Are they surmountable? Certainly, but they aren't necessarily trivial. And if you want to poopoo me for having trashed my Thurgdin faction, I'd like to point out to you that I didn't choose to do that per se, I supported my guild in their decision, like a good guild member. If it had been left up to me, we'd have left the **** dain alone since his drops aren't really worth the grief, for the most part.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree since you seem hell bent on finding something to disagree with me on.

[Kirstin Thornhill]

Lizard Blood Potion: Effect of Cazic Gate

Potion of the Bone Field: Effect of Field of Bone Port

Potion of the Frost: Effect of Frost Port

Potion of the Swamp: Effect of Swamp Port

Vial of Swirling Smoke: Effect of Gate

Vial of Velium Vapors: Effect of Thurgadin Gate

I was reading this thread, and decided to check the list of "travel" potions. Shouldn't there be a Vah Shir Gate potion (alchemy made) somewhere?

[Lothay]

I don't think there is yet a Shar Vhal potion, but someone feel free to correct me should I have missed it.

And I thought I heard mention of a Spiritstone for there, but could also be mistaken, and it's not actually in-game.

~ Lothay

[Glatius2]

I have one of the lizard blood potions from before the CT changes. It used to gate you the Wizard pyramid inside CT itself and still does as far as I know. It would be pretty much be from the frying pan into the fire for that one.