*grumbles* I am learning to hate the words ......

[Lling]

"....well, it's better than what I'm wearing!"

I went to PoI last night with a group of guildmates to work on quest pieces. Some of the melee (myself included) have really been wanting to work on the neckpiece that has charges of gate. Considering that I pay anywhere from 200 to 1kpp for gate potions (I try to carry the vendor bought insta-cast gate to bind for real emergencies and that is not cheap), this item would be wonderful to have.

So who is running around grabbing all the items to complete this piece? The melee? Heck, so - we'd have to push our way past the shaman too fast - and since we're still killing the adds in camp, that proved too hard.

And she is clueless about it! When asked about why she was trying to do the quest ahead of the melee, she said "But even the first piece is better than what I'm wearing!! And it's got great STATS for every class!" Yes, yes, it does. And if I looted that parchment they were drooling over and turned it in to get a spell to sell to buy myself something with GREAT STATS, she'd be the first to pitch a fit! And rightly so!

If you can sit down and mem a gate spell, defering to the melee who do not have that luxury is a kind thing to do. It becomes even more generous if you pass on something that is better than what you are wearing because others need it more.

[Lilosh]

There is a slight difference.

If you took the parchment, and sold it. You have purchased something for the purpose of selling it. Whether you use the money to buy anything after that is up to you.


If she gets a neckpiece that is signifcantly better then what she is wearing, then how is her need any less then yours?


Maybe I am just dense, but I dont see how your need to have a cool Clicky Gate piece is any more urgent then her need for better equipment.

Where as you taking a parchment you can in no way use , just to raise for cash is a different matter entirely.

(edited to summarize: I am saying it should hgave been rolled on, not given to the shaman in specific)

-Lilosh

[kiztent]

If she gets a neckpiece that is signifcantly better then what she is wearing, then how is her need any less then yours?

Maybe I am just dense, but I dont see how your need to have a cool Clicky Gate piece is any more urgent then her need for better equipment.

If you've ever been deep in Chardok (say) on a raid or group that has run past the time you can stay online, you will understand why a gate effect is critical for melees.

A clicky gate piece isn't a toy for a melee. Especially since some raiding guilds require melees to have some type of gate device (thurg potion, OT hammer, other gate potion).

It would be on a par with a warrior looting a FT5 piece over a wizard because it has nice stats and is an upgrade for the warrior.

[Aerinha]

Under most circumstances, I would agree that since it was better than what she was wearing, the shaman could have it and be welcome...except ...The capability to gate...I don't care if it has no stats at all, if the item had a clicky gate effect, my ranger would die for it. (Um, yes, I am aware of the Thurg gate potion, but a clicky!! ooh!=)) This is more than a lifesaver in some situations. I had to log in my husband's Druid to rescue a guildie of mine from a tight spot ). If he had been a caster, he could have just gated and been out. Being able to gate is a wonderful thing, and perhaps not as appreciated by the shaman in question because she has had that capability so long, and has a hard time putting herself into somone else's boots....running... all the way back to town...
I have been invited to a couple of the PoP Planes by casters before. On my first visit, I ask,"where is the zone out?" and sometimes they don't know! I don't like getting stuck, but they have never had to worry about it before.
Just an opinion =)

[Lilosh]

Reading the replies, I see the new point of view.

I suppose that giving non-casters a way to ghate out would be very very useful.


But if it was a *SIGNIFICANT* upgrade to what the shaman was wearing, I can now see BOTH sides of the argument.


-Lilosh

[Lling]

My choice of a parchment in my example was not a good one - thank you for using a FT item - I think that made a much better example.

Even a raid usually has some way to get out - what if you go LD on a raid and cannot get back online? That is why I carry that miserably expensive vendor bought gate potion - and when you get the "your gate is unstable" message - that is a killer. 1050pp with max cha - and they are lore so you cannot carry a backup.

That said, I am grateful that I can afford them - others cannot - and I would defer to them to make sure they fininshed first.

We always do "need before greed" when grouping. This instance was rather odd - and it was someone I genuinely like, so that fact that she didn't "get it" I found more disappointing than anything.

The first piece of the quest neck is very nice
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=16558

[Mannwin Woobie]

First, you should have made your intentions clear before you starting your little PoI jaunt.

Having preached a little, I'd have to agree that it should go to a non-gating class first. No matter what the stats, or how much more significant it was over what the Shaman was wearing. You could easily give the Shaman the money for the pieces (based on the money you would be saving on Gate potions) so she could go and buy a neck upgrade for herself if it is THAT important to her.

And, of course, if all else failes, just roll on it.

Loot is such a 4-letter word

[Cubwynn]

*shrug* that's why you don't do NBG in pick up groups... just greed roll everything.

[Cigarskunk]

Maybe I am just dense, but I dont see how your need to have a cool Clicky Gate piece is any more urgent then her need for better equipment.

Nah, you've just obviously never played a class with no inate gating abilities.

Sure, I can understand that someone who sees an item that would be a great upgrade for themselves and not think it fair that someone else is taking it just for the click effect, but there are plenty of items out there that even though they may be usable and very useful to more than one class, there are certain classes which are given these items by default due to the fact that the item serves a special need which that particular class has.

For example, let's say that there's an all/all helm which has a clickable invis effect. The helm has very nice stats to it which aren't class specific (ie/doesn't have +20 INT or WIS) and would be a great addition for anyone's wardrobe. However, there's a real need for certain classes to be able to self cast invis, so no matter how nice it might be for my SK, I'm most likely going to not be able to roll for it so that classes which can't self cast and don't have a common clickable invis item can have it.

Will I be a bit annoyed - heck yeah - I certainly need gear upgrades without a doubt?

Do I understand that others need it more than I do even if they're only going to use the right click - yes - because if the raid or group has determined NBG, then it's either this helm which I can get something equal to for 5K for me or them dropping 20k for an item which can do the same thing?

[Lilosh]

As someone else pointed out, She should have mentioned before this was ever an issue that she was here for the item. There should have been an understanding come to.


Now, as I mentioned, I have been educated by this thread, so I now see BOTH sides of the coin. I have played a non-gating class, but not past level 25.

And to the person who suggested that the Shaman sit out of the looting process in return for Ling giving them some of the money she would have saved... I like that idea quite a bit. Both parties would be satisfied.

And the other excellent quote from the thread so far, is

*shrug* that's why you don't do NBG in pick up groups... just greed roll everything.

-Just my 6 cents
Lilosh

[Lling]

*nod* I would happily have paid. The other melee there needed it more than me, though.

And it was not a pick-up group. I will flat out roll in those situations. And no one knew she was working on that item before we started out. The other casters were a bit upset and offered to take the melee back - which we plan to do soon.

[Wyrdlan]

I'm not even going into the issue of stats versus utility. The first time she looted something without asking, especially a no drop quest peice, she would have been lectured if she was in my group. The second time she'd have bought herself a TL to BIND.

You just don't DO that.

[Lilosh]

*nod* I would happily have paid. The other melee there needed it more than me, though.

And it was not a pick-up group. I will flat out roll in those situations. And no one knew she was working on that item before we started out. The other casters were a bit upset and offered to take the melee back - which we plan to do soon.

Ahh, new info.


If you stated before hand that You were going solely for the purpose of getting the item for yourself, or getting it for the other melee, then the Shaman was in the wrong for jumping up and grabbing it.


And being that this was not a pick up group, then Im sure the intentions of the group were known ahead of time.


Bad Shaman... Bad bad Shaman.


-Lilosh

[Grozza]

I have to wonder what this shamaness was wearing then. I can think of two items off the top of my head that could be better and easier to get than this necklace (Runed Mithril Torc and Qeynos Badge of Nobility).

[Ngreth Thergn]

The second time she'd have bought herself a TL to BIND.

Well.. TL to "safe point" since bind has a confirm box, zone "safe point" does not.