Nobody in Particular

[Darknyss]

This is to nobody in particular, but to many I have met...

To the "low on mana Battle-Cleric"... SIT THE HECK DOWN!!!

To the 2-handed weapon Warrior that can't keep aggro... USE 2 WEAPONS!!!

To the Ranger blaming targetting for dotting the add... USE ASSIST!!!

oh there's so many... the full-mana necro that's not twitching the lom Cleric... the full-life, lom shaman that's not cannibalizing...

LDoN requires so many classes to know exactly what they should be doing in order to efficiently manage their time... at level 35, I've taught people how to do some things, and it's worked out well... why at level 56 are there so many people that seem to be worse off, no matter what we tell them...?

[Balkin]

Amen!!!

/agrees

[Sanna]

1. Ebay.

2. Stupid/Dense people.



I have examples for both.

1. My main is a druid. Through a guild I used to be a member of (before dissolution) I aquired a second account with a cleric-bot on it. Yes, I know the basics of being a cleric - sit, heal, repeat - but at first when they said, 'give me ac buff', I had to ask them what spell name that might be. I still don't have the spell haste buffs, nor have I looked into buying her any of her 60+ spells. She was only meant to be another chealing manapool for raids, and not really for 'real play'. The guild is gone, however, and both my chars are elsewhere than that guild, so I'm gonna have to learn how to play a cleric for real, more than just standing and hitting that CHeal button and watching for my place in the chain again.


2. I almost want to leave this story for Lilosh, but I know better than to risk getting him banned. On Monday, Nov 24th, a woman from Stromm entered serverwide.eqtraders and proceeded to ask about a couple steps for the druid epic (regarding where to buy a small block of clay). At first she was civil, if dense. The answer she received was: 'this is not generally the channel to be asking those questions in, but you can buy clay in such and such locations.' By the time I looked at channel again, she was insulting people en masse for their rudeness and unhelpfulness and demanding to know why we weren't helping her with her epic. Lilosh finally told her in all caps what she was to do for that step (he gave accurate directions), and then told her to leave channel. Many in channel vocally agreed with the latter suggestion. I believe she did, THEN proceeded to send him cross server tells, saying some things that no, I will not repeat here, but suffice to say she began to go a wee bit postal on him.




No matter WHAT you do, you WILL encounter idiots. IRL, there will be people who just suddenly and for what seems to you as no reason at all be VERY angry with you, and you're like, 'wtf did i do???' There will be people who are denser than frigging Walls of China, and there is not a thing you can do to change them. There will also be people who are simply as-of-yet uneducated, such as myself with the cleric; I can be taught, once I put in the real playtime. But when you get a dense person who has ebayed.... there is not a thing you can do, other than put them on a List of People To Not Interact With.


/comfort.

-- Sanna

[Nhin Impious]

To the "low on mana Battle-Cleric"... SIT THE HECK DOWN!!!

I'd love to, but the monk just pulled one and two adds (unannounced of course), one of which I rooted, since I was running crowd control and only saw 2 (pull + 1 add)... then noticed the second one arriving, rooted it off the wizard, and then had to stay standing or take a 150 point hit every time root broke and the little buggers came to beat me for it. So yup, I'm standing up meleeing to bash the healer of the three out of CHing itself, end up throwing two group heals because my three melee people can't pick a mob and stick with it and decide to attempt simul-suicide... THEN when the fight ends and I'm at 10% mana, I get made to feel guilty about the one stun I threw at that second mob when I thought there were only two of them and its silly root broke the first time.

If your cleric is ending up low on mana, either they don't know how to budget it, someone's over-pulling or the cleric is playing too many roles. Not all of those are necessarily under the cleric's control, since people who "don't think the cleric is playing right" tend to not listen to them when they call LOM or med break-- even if 85% of their mana (see above) is being used to fix other people's playing strategies away from being Spell: Group Wipe.

And yup, the group got better after the monk overpulled one too many times-- right after I said LOM-- got his happy butt killed, and then I told the second monk that he WOULD wait for me to pacify and he WOULD wait for me to pull, ok? Medding, and will go to straight healing after the pull.

*shrug* Don't know if things worked better because I swapped out my one DD for a pacify, or because the idiots knocked themselves out of some exp and got over being so pushy.

Nhinx "I can't cast through your bear behind, move it!" Aphsion

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Sanna
1. My main is a druid. Through a guild I used to be a member of (before dissolution) I aquired a second account with a cleric-bot on it. Yes, I know the basics of being a cleric - sit, heal, repeat - but at first when they said, 'give me ac buff', I had to ask them what spell name that might be.

Right click on an empty spell gem, select statistic buff - AC, and that will show you all of your AC buffs (49 - shield of words, 57 aegis or bulwark of faith) and if you are over 60, you should be casting Aegolism (it's a 3-in-1) or its big brother virtue - which are listed under HP buffs somewhere.

With druids, 9 and symbol (54 - marzin, 61 - kazad , takes a peridot) is more HP and mana regen than aego.

Why yes, I played my cleric bot yesterday, why do you ask? It's nice to see a slower logged in. Stupid warrior is so HP heavy and AC light trying to heal with my shaman is murder on the mana pool.

And 2 weapons isn't necessarily more aggro than 1. On a pure DPS basis, a BoC with sword of bloodsworn offhand is about the same aggro DPS as a WMBS.

There's a special spot in hell for shaman that won't cannibalize though. I manage to canni my ass off while meleeing on my second account. There's no reason you can't either.

Rangers, well, they're rangers. I usually have them offtank and should we ever get an enchanter to stop selling crack and exp we drive them bonkers because we're used to no CC.

[Serenya]

If you aren't at least 57 don't use shield of words, use armor of faith instead. For twice the mana cost you get a whopping 6 AC and 9 minutes duration, SoW is so not worth it.

[Sanna]

Even with the drop down list, you still have to learn what is listed where. Having two chars that are about lvl 20 and two chars that are in the 50s, I finally feel that I know enough of what goes where to anticipate where a given spell will be in that list.

The difference between Static Buff and Utility Beneficial is a little confusing sometimes... And the fact that Regen has it's own main category makes more sense now that I play a chanter.

Druid:
Regen --> HP --> Chloroplast etc

Chanter:
Regen -- > Mana --> Breeze etc
but then Intellectual Superiority is under Static Buffs --> Fizzle Rate... and I wonder where the spells like Insight will go.


If I had only stuck with a druid, I would still be wondering why my HP Regens weren't under my Heal category. That drop down list is awesome and I do love it, but there's still a learning curve for it. Just because I group things together in my mind or spell book (Like Breeze line, Intel Sup line for fizzle rate, and Insight for wis/int) doesn't mean that list does the same. just something you have to get used to.

(But then again, my bard's main list is different.... aaaack....)


and when you get a 59 clr-bot, you suddenly become Great Friends with that drop down list, because your spellbook is more disorganized than architecture studio before final reviews. /shudders at memory.

-- Sanna
still likes having 2 accts, even tho she still needs a durn job, heh.

[Grimina]

Gotta agree with Nhin on this one. If the battle cleric is LOM and still fighting...it's because for whatever reason, they CAN'T sit down right now...and if you HAVE to be standing up...then do whatever dmg you can to the mob to make it die faster so you CAN sit down. OR there's the possibility that they went LoM at the end. One cheal can send you from "good to go" to "need a break" and the same would be true whether you spent the whole fight on your butt or standing up melee'ing. Moreso when you are sitting though, because while the cleric is sitting the mob is dying more slowly and the group's health is going down. With a cleric up and fighting that's extra DPS and the cleric is already up and ready to protect the paper classes by rooting/stunning/bashing. That's more mana saved BECAUSE they were up and fighting.

The shaman not using canni I run across ALL the time. I've only grouped with 3 shaman in the last few months that DID canni. And one was still using canni 1 *shudder* (course she's lower level-53 at the time- and I don't know what levels the canni spells come in, so maybe that's all she had) They have kei...they don't WANT to canni. Even when I tell em to go for it, I got the mana to heal em up.

[eniamn]

if the wizard can't cc then you need to get a new wizard. i normally end up cc with cleric, stunning to up melee dps, and doing stright nukes. wizards get decent root parking. even a cold based dmg/root at 39. wizard should be cc with a cleric there when the group is stupid. and there should be no stupid wizards.

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Grimina
The shaman not using canni I run across ALL the time. I've only grouped with 3 shaman in the last few months that DID canni. And one was still using canni 1 *shudder* (course she's lower level-53 at the time- and I don't know what levels the canni spells come in, so maybe that's all she had) They have kei...they don't WANT to canni. Even when I tell em to go for it, I got the mana to heal em up.

Canni 2 is an annoying quest spell and canni 3 is 54. 53 is a grim level for shaman canni-wise. Canni 4 at 58 kicks behind. I can see a 53 shaman not wanting to canni, but there's no excuse for it at 58, and doubly so at 60 if you have torpor. KEI is for weenies.

And I think insight/brilliance is stat buff -> int/wis

Myrron's note: edited for content.

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Sanna
2. I almost want to leave this story for Lilosh, but I know better than to risk getting him banned. On Monday, Nov 24th, a woman from Stromm entered serverwide.eqtraders and proceeded to ask about a couple steps for the druid epic (regarding where to buy a small block of clay). At first she was civil, if dense. The answer she received was: 'this is not generally the channel to be asking those questions in, but you can buy clay in such and such locations.' By the time I looked at channel again, she was insulting people en masse for their rudeness and unhelpfulness and demanding to know why we weren't helping her with her epic. Lilosh finally told her in all caps what she was to do for that step (he gave accurate directions), and then told her to leave channel. Many in channel vocally agreed with the latter suggestion. I believe she did, THEN proceeded to send him cross server tells, saying some things that no, I will not repeat here, but suffice to say she began to go a wee bit postal on him.

:-(

She came in, and asked how she could makes a "Small piece of clay", so she could enchant it and have "Enchanted Clay" , for the druid epic.

Now, the clay she wanted was http://lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=20455 . It's not bought,made, or anything remotely similar. It's the result of turning in a Jade Reaver to Kinlo Strongarm in Kaladim.

When I informed her of that, she said "I already have my Jade Reaver", and we assumed all was good. 5 minutes later, she started asking again where to find a small piece of clay, to enchant for the druid epic.

I gritted my teeth,and politely (yes, really) reminded her about the turn in in Kaladim.

Someone else came in, and demanded a shopping list and trivial list for the Sixth Shawl. I politely (Hey, I was in a rare mood last night) suggested that they go to the website. They got a bit resentful, and all of a sudden, our druid friend starts yelling and deriding the channel for being unhelpful in her epic quest, and not giving her the help she so desperately deserves, Shouting that all she wants to know is where to buy her small piece of clay.

After arguing back and forth for a while, the folks in the channel became significantly perturbed, and we did what we sometimes do. We got a bit sharp-tongued. I finally ended up giving her a 6 step list, in all caps, for doing the epic turn-in. Well, the epic turn in stopped at step 4. 5 and 6 were added flavor of a slightly less then friendly variety.

She derided us all for being un-helpful, and rude people, and left. I then got no less then half a dozen tells from this woman telling me that I was the worst thing since sliced bread , and that she hopes Idon't treat my dear old mother this way.

At this point, I chuckle, and put the person on ignore, and go on with my night.

But this, my dear friends, is why you will seldom see me help people in channel. For every one appriciative "Thanks, you just helped a lot!", you get 4 people who don't respond, or yell at you, or take up the next hour of your life.


-Lilosh

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Its far more about the player behind the cleric, than what is/isn't appropriate for the cleric to do.

I've been in groups with a cleric and a chanter (both strong players), and the cleric actually wound up being more efficient at doing CC than the chanter was (mez immune mobs), AND was meleeing and nuking throughout the fights in addition to her healing roles.

I've been in a group with a cleric, a 60-something druid, and a mid-50s druid, and guess who got stuck with healing duty? The mid-50s druid, because the other two simply refused to heal. The cleric only healed me TWICE throughout the entire hunt, once a CH and once a HoT, and did nothing to help during group partial wipes.

Yaulp 5 makes the perma-standing cleric more viable, too, but that requires the cleric to be rather high level. There are plenty of situations for all casting classes where sitting just isn't viable due to aggro. If you can sit for one tick just to get whapped for 200 points of damage, chances are you've just lost more mana than you've gained (after healing), either from your pool or someone else's.

The intense mana-management of LDoN is new to a lot of players too, used to more causal grinds and levelling up with never-med-KEI. Grouping with people while they learn the wonders of rationing mana is more often than not a rather frustrating endeavour, but they've gotta learn it sometime.

[Grenoble]

Originally posted by kiztent
Canni 2 is an annoying quest spell and canni 3 is 54. 53 is a grim level for shaman canni-wise. Canni 4 at 58 kicks behind. I can see a 53 shaman not wanting to canni,

Thank you!

Speaking as a 53 shaman, yes canni 2 is a pain and the tradeoff not so hot. Canni 3 is much better.

I've only done one adventure, and I canni'd myself stupid. A few resists on slow tears my mana pool. I had kei, one of the first mobs debuffed it. Got thru the whole adventure doin' canni 1 with some occasional mana from the necro.

[eniamn]

still chuckle about the chick who said sitting down for more mana regen was bull ****. kei baby for sure. i am happy with c2 atm. want kei for duration the extra mana is ok but longer than 30 minutes rules.

{Edited by Verdandi - the word filter is there for a reason. Rather than trying to get around it, please instead choose more family friendly language. Thanks }

k. guess if you dont know what should go there anyway i don't want to tell you. wouldn't have used it but actually saw that as the quote. i about died.

[Verdandi]

Ugh, canni 2....

Canni 1 gives you 20-29 mana for 50 hp (lvl 29)
Canni 2 gives you 30-37 mana for 67 hp (lvl 39)
Canni 3 gives you 39-42 mana for 74 hp (lvl 54)
Canni 4 gives you 81-82 mana for 148 hp (lvl 58)

(the upper on these ranges is for lvl 65, so scale accordingly)

Of the slows...
Togor's Insects (lvl 39) requires 175 mana
Turgur's Insects (lvl 51) requires 250 mana.

The Canni2 quest really is beyond the reach of a non-twink level 39. It starts being doable around level 45, with a good network of friends your level. Without that network you're probably looking at 50+. But that means that until 45 or 50, you need to canni 1 approximately 7 times just to get the mana for one slow. The cast time plus the recast time is 4 seconds. So that's almost half a minute just to canni the mana for 1 slow. Frustrating, to say the least. That scale pretty much stays the same until canni 4, when a shaman also gets Kragg's Mending and can get their hp back much more quickly and efficiently, making canni a glorious thing again. Canni is always a valuable tool but not one that shamans will use as heavily in the 40s and early 50s than they will in their 30s and 58+.