Nobody in Particular

[Bennan]

Shamans...

Any Shaman that consistently needs Heals for his/her canni casting shouldn't be playing a Shaman.

As a 55 Shaman I don't need heals. I can buff haste slow, and Canni it all back without the need for other classes wasting mana on me. The only time I see that I may need heals, is the period before I go into an Adventure, when I go oom with all my buffing and another healer is sitting on full mana.

As a 60 Cleric, Shamans always say only heal me if you are on full mana. Many look upon getting a heal from someone else as a failure to play the class right. And I rarely do cast a heal on them, and they manage fine.

Its a part of the class to canni back mana, and then regen the health self sufficiently. To be unable to do this in a consistent fashion is in itself not teamwork. After all that mana for the heal could be used elsewhere....

[Minta Rose]

I'll heal you while you canni because it's better ratio than twitching. . .well, anyone. Just keep on rootparking while I'm in the blah zone of necro mezzes (where the low one doesn't work and the undead one I can't yet cast) and helping me DoT any group member that says 'thx 4 twitch' after mindwrack.

[Falmorn]

Hmmm, I've got to throw a few cents into the mix, even though most of what I *would* say has already been said (thanks Grenoble! ):

I didn't understand the usefulness of Cannibalize until I hit my mid to high 40's. Most of that was not due to KEI addiction, but more that I was still feeling out the class and figuring out how things worked. I was pretty much focused on the buffing end of things, with a few heals thrown in for good measure, and a *lot* of sitting. And the deep frustration involved in completing my Canni 2 quest (stupid Yun shaman!) only made things worse. I got Canni 2 around level 52, and Stoicism around 54 due to a late purchase of LoY.

Now? I've rarely gone OOM in or out of a group, I have this hotkey that warns the group that I'm going to be munching on HPs, and I never ask for heals ahead of the MT or the paper classes. Heck, I'll even stand up and take some punishment so that people have a chance to collect themselves. And I'll most likely be the last calm one after the group starts panicking, trying my level best to get Turgur's stuck to all the mobs that just got pulled (this is, however, still in places like PoN and PoD; I'm aware of the difficulties in the higher tiers).

This is purely due to experience. I haven't blazed through the levels and I get a chance to group with some very good people. I've had bad experiences too, where a particular PC seems to be an xp vacuum for all the good they're doing.

But I can really empathize with the frustration of a non-canning shaman. I'll get KEI if it's convenient for me, if I'm TS'ing, or there's a good chance that the extra ticks of mana will come in handy. But I was fiddling around in GD and EW this past week for the first three steps of my shawl, and didn't notice any symptoms of KEI addiction.

Guess I'm trying to say that there are some halfway decent shamans out there, and I'm sorry you've run into such lousy ones.

Fal

[Greymist]

Someone Actually complains?

"But as a necro, running full mana, don't yell at me because I twitched you."

You're kidding, right? Some idiot caster actually complained because you gave them MORE mana? Please, come play with me.... I promise never to complain, ever, even in my dreams, even if I have full mana, ever, never!


Greymist

[karisun]

Lots of interesting points of view everyone - good to read. I like learning more about classes that I don't play or have only played to about level 20.

Also, Minta... I love your signature picture!

K

[Pojodan]

I'm probably bending the tracks a little with this, but:
Be nice to the beastlord that you've chosen to be the buffer/haster/slower for your group!
Boy, I tell you, I enjoy few things more than grouping with 4 DPS and a cleric.. really makes me feel alive having that much to do.. however I seem to go somewhat unappreciated, esepcially when several people want Ferocity as well... no, I don't have Canni, yes I have Paragon, but it's not the end-all of miricle spells.... all my buffs save for two of them are single cast only, so it'll take me a rather long while to do buffs.

Anyhoo, got that off my chest, move along.

[QuteCleric]

yes I have Paragon, but it's not the end-all of miricle spells

What? It is to me!


Qutie!

[Draggar]

Originally posted by kittycatscratch
And then there are the people that go AFK for a half hour in a timed dungeon...

Gotta love that ;(

Heh, my second (and last) attempt in Ro dungeons, right when we were about to go in (with 10 minutes to get into the dungeon) our primary healer says "Oh, I gotta go for a min, BRB, gotta leat lunch".

WTF??????????????????????

Too late to kick his butt out, too...

[Moraganth]

To the "low on mana Battle-Cleric"... SIT THE HECK DOWN!!!

I respect that everyone will have their own opinion, especially if they view their class being "attacked"... but, sometimes there simply is no reason for the things peopel do.. other than their grey matter not living up to the average potentual.

I.. must.. share...

The other night, while cleaning out my ever empty bank (yeh right), i stumbled upon an aug that'd collected a bit of dust.. so as any normal tradeskiller, i immediately seized upon it as a way to gain a coveted empty_slot_in_bank01.

I head down to BB to install the aug, adn upon zoning in, i get greated with a tell from a warrior needing a chanter for a 6th. I figure, i need 10% an aa to take my fletching up, so i could forgo sleep for 1 adventure.

It's a 63+ average level group... got the warrior, monk, rogue, mage, and cleric all lined up ready to go.. so we're off to LFay. We buff up, and head in.

Now, my disclaimer... i've gone to great lengths to avoid open ldon groups.. because of always seeming to get into groups with peopel who just don't quite meld. So i took this risk, which is where my fault lies.

The mage is happy to ml, which is nice.. i hate doing it. The monk asks if we want him to pull.. and i mention i can... i have a LOT of practice at it.

Chanter pulling is pretty nice, mezz splitting, arcane rune, pulling with slow, pacify, the whole arsenal is right there... those chanters out there know what i'm talkign about.

So we're getting into it.. and the cleric is up their fightign along with the warrior, monk, and rogue.. and i respect that a cleric can do a bit of damage.. it's not like a chanter trying to melee.. and everythign is well.. until whatever symbol the cleric cast on us wore off (mind you, i don't generally pay attention.. i say "i need a hp buff," and out of the corner of my eye i see an icon pop up, and i'm gtg with that).

So.. i've been pulling singles, and pulling an additional mob when the first is almost dead, and we're making good time... So i say " i could use a virtue".. and the cleric says "i don't have mana for it".....

We've been fighting singles almost exclusivly (did i mention i have a LOT of practice pulling?), allslowed when they get to camp (it does save a little damage), and i've been runed most of the time (hence i'm not too bad of a mana sponge).... and the clerics been fighting, instead of medding.. and she has no mana to rebuff people.

So, what does she do.. sit and med? Nope.. she says, and i quote,

"I med better standing and fighting with yaulp on."

I mention that, if i do get a double (which does happen, usually not a problem with 4000-4500 hps), that i will die (cause that is the usual end result of 1 slowed, and 1 non-slowed mob hitting me for 300+ a pop. Lets face it, arcane rune is only 1600 points, and my damage mitigation is somewhere between a ground moss and a tree fungus... in a particulaly bad spot, i can mak a cleric wish they were healing a ranger.

Her responce was, and i qoute, again

lol you'll have to run back too cause theres no time for rezz

.

Now.. i already know that.. that's why I, and only i mind you, bound at the very entrance to the cave.

After this, i notice that the main tank.. you know the one.. with the dented armor... he's taking quite a bit of damage pretty fast too... and i'm thinking, there's no way he could take that much unless.. yes, you guessed it.. he was unbuffed as well....

And, what happened? She sat and medded for mana? Of course not.. she was up at every mob pounding away with her hammer.. THEN complaining she had no mana, cause now she's having to heal even more to keep people alive.

It's not that i expect clwerics to fill lots of shoes.. just the one that KEEPS EVERYONE ALIVE.

And no, this isn't a rant against clerics.. she is the first cleric, in probably over 2 years, that made my list to never group with again.

So yeh, there are sometimes those instances where peopel just simply don't seem to know how to play their class.

[Itek]

I -must- find the ignorant piece of... *eyes mods*

I -must- find the complete waste of air who forwarded to the cleric community the concept of "I med better standing up"

No.

You do NOT med AT ALL when you are standing.

You do NOT proc a mana tap.

WE only haste you for AC so you get hit for less, not so you hit for more.

mana 60%+ ok, melee if you want

mana 0-59% SIT DOWN!!

Arcane Rune is 1500 hp. It's -very- nice. But as a "mana efficient heal spell" it ranks up there with greater heal. Only not as good. Arcane Rune isn't a "healing myself" spell, it's a "temporary HP buff" spell. Takes my HP from 3300 to 4800 untill I get beat on.

Quote:

"With yaulp6, FT 15, C5 i regen more mana standing than I do sitting."

No, beavis, you regen LESS mana standing with those buffs than you would SITTING with those buffs. So unless sitting down turns yaulp6 off.... please sit down. Every other caster in the game has mastered the concept of "sit, stand, cast, sit" it's really not that hard.

Oh ... my ... agnostic ....

Yalup6 ....
ATK by 60
Dex by 90
Stamina loss by 12
Haste by 30 (stacks with Speed of Shissar but not Vallon's)
Increase mana by 48 in 4 ticks.
Mana cost 10
Cast time 0.5 sec
Recast time 18 sec (3 tick)

So it's possible for a cleric to keep up Yalup6 constantly and get 12 more mana regen a tick. (well 10 a tick after casting cost)

Nice .... but medding at level 65 is 30 mana a tick. So by all means use yalup6 when you can. But sit DOWN and it's -4- times as effective.

/stand
/cast 1
/pause 6, /cast 1
/pause 241, /sit
/time

That stands you up, casts Yalup6... instantly recasts in case of fizzle, waits 0.6 seconds (casting time), sits you down, waits 24 seconds of duration, then does a "visible to me only" emote to tell you to hit it... AGAIN. (you can adjust the 241 pause to let you notice the /time emote so you don't miss casting it.)

Dang .... Yalup6 .... that's not broken or nothing... For instance Gather Mana with pre-requisite Mental Clarity 3 and Hastened Gathering 3 gives AT most 5000 mana every 100 minutes. Or 5 mana a tick. 8 mana a tick including the Mental Clarity 3.

MC 3 = 12 aa
Gather Mana = 5 aa
Hastened Gathering 3 = 6 aa

23 aa for an enchanter to have 80% of the mana regen of a cleric. Um.... I call shinnanigans.

[Grimina]

Note: Yaulp goes away when you sit, and you can't use Yaulp on a horse.

The statement "I get more mana standing than sitting" is directly related to the fact that mobs die faster when I'm standing than they do when I'm sitting thus they aren't hitting anyone as much, thus I don't need to heal as much. So they should say I KEEP more mana standing than sitting.

Granted it's not THAT much faster in a group. But in a duo or trio situation that extra 30-45DPS kills the mob just fast enough to mean I only have to heal once in the fight instead of 2-3 times. So no, my regen isn't as much standing as it is sitting...but when sitting = 1200mana spent and standing = 400mana spent guess which I'll choose? And with (in my instance, YMMV) 10 from yaulp, 6 from selfbuff, 15 from FT, 1 from MC = 32 mana regen standing. It may not be as fast as sitting (by a long shot I'm sure) BUT it's fast enough to keep me above 70%. Add KEI on top of that and I don't NEED to sit, sure sitting might be 30 per tic faster...but FM is FM, can't get any higher than that.

However, when I need to buff everyone up (I hate when aego fails mid adventure!) you betcha I'm gonna do it, and THEN I'll sit down because then 32 per tic isn't enough to catch me up enough to be prepared in case of emergencies. Plus, I personally sit down during pulls. Might only be enough sitting for a tic or three but I didn't have anything better to do anyway hehe, battle cleric doesn't mean you NEVER sit hehe. That cleric that just wouldn't buff is a pure moron *nod*

[astianax]

sorry, itek, the yaulp spells only work when standing...sit down and they auto cancel *grumble*

and yes, hammering away with our insanely proccing hammers while yaulped isn't technically faster mana regen, but grimmy's got the general idea...so, even with yaulpv (i'm 61) i'll sit to med if i go under 50% mana (which has only happened once in an adventure *shakes fist at 2 rooms with back to back poison traps*)

now, as my shadowknight, i've worked with clerics who've just had off nights, for whatever reason. i mean, i've worked with 'em before and *know* they don't need to be reminded 5 times that their puller/mt needs the full package of buffs. and that 10% or less health isn't the best time to start a cheal *sigh* (of course, when that happens, you know fd fails)

[QuteCleric]

If you have high dex and good haste, Yaulp 6 + Sacrifice is faster mana regen :-p I've tried it, annoying as heck though(and that graphic is sooo stupid ><, drops off a dragon and you can't give me better than a rusty mace?)

In all seriousness though, I have 115 wins, 8 losses, all adventures save like 5 were done in pickup groups, you just have to give them a chance, I've only been in a group twice when I genuinely thought I was going to fail... Using a little gnomish knowhow and some cleric powah, I won both times Just have to hang in there....

Qutie!