TSS Tailoring

[Leana]

Wow, Strokker. I cannot disagree with your post more. High level players have the same rights to hunt and kill mobs in any zone they choose, just like you do. So long as they don't disrupt other players, there is nothing wrong with going into a low level zone and farming items. Most high level players will be more than glad to make room for lower level players, if they are aware of your presence.

If you want to play with special rules that limit looting based on level, there is a server with a specific rule set designed to support that feature. Unfortunately, the server isn't all that popular. Go figure.

You gave an example of a higher level player "helping" you. First off, If it were me that was "helping" you, I'd have saved you the mob's corpse, and the loot would have been yours. Nor is it exclusive to higher level players "help" lower level players. My 75th level cleric friend was "helped out" by another player that thought he was in trouble the other day. Although he was somewhat annoyed, he did exactly what I always do in those situations... thanked the other player for the help and moved on.

Maybe you should consider that all higher level players aren't out to mistreat the little guys. We only expect the same thing from the game that you do, to have fun. Different people have different ways of getting enjoyment from the game. It is inevitable that your playing style will conflict with someone elses. When that happens, you are a lot less likely to spoil your evening and their evening if you don't go into the event with built in hostility.

[Strokker]

Leana, I am sorry you disagree with my post, I would prefer that you would at least see the problem with having a quest run for lower level players run along with one of the best, or more to the point easiest to get to tradeskill farm spots in the game.

I too have toons ranging from 1 to 75 now and on many servers too, though I have not encountered this server you mention, the name would be helpful. I play solo and group I tend to shun Raids as to time constraints prohibit it most times but have been on more than my share. I also go farming in many spots all over Norrath and the Planes and Luclin, but I am always watchful for those who are lower than I and if I see a group there or a solo player trying to level up then I take my farming elsewhere.

Now as to these people not being able to see me I tend to play right out in the middle usually with camera angles set so I can watch my own back and quite often with a second account higher level doing heals and such< my style of Pl'ing just keep em healed> I just dont see how they could miss me. I am talking about the bear area of Mesa if you have been there or the spider area then you know how the lay out is...kind of open... Yet with my camera angles like I like em I can see them run right up next to me and cast their PBAE blast, I know this from my logs where it says so and so cast XXX spell. They knew I was there and went out of their way to KS me because I was in their eyes poaching on their turf. No, no one would say such a thing or they would risk it being /reported, but it would take a really dumb person to not see this.

All I am saying is that Ngreth went to the trouble to set up areas for farming not only trade skill items in places where you can get not only the items you need BUT experience as well, However people will always take the easiest path and go where there is little to no risk for them just simply because they can. And the competetivness this game can generate causes them to not adhere to the PNP < in case you do not know what this is or for other who might not it is the Play Nice Policy> and tend to run right over the little guy.

Now as to my later example of what really set me off this was a pure melee class player and his help consisted of bumping his nose in where it should not have been I find it hard hat a player could get to level 75 and not know a bard kiting a mob when they see it all the "help" he could do is overpower my little songs with his melee he cant heal me or buff me no just outkill me or KS me is the propper term. When I am on a higher level toon even my Necro I will pop off a heal or two to help THEM not damage the mob, this is "Helping", not jumping in to melee the mob that is at 80% health, if you are a melee class yo would need to wait till the mob is down below 20% or you risk taking the kill away from the player.

I had gotten it out of my system till your post, where you feel thet it is only fair for higher level players to kill the same mobs to have "FUN" instead of going out to earn with some risk what they need. As to them having the "Right" to go where they will to hunt what they want maybe they should also consider that with this "Right" there comes "Responcability" to not infringe upon the rights of others. Yes you may go and hunt in any zone you wish and kill what ever you wish AS LONG AS it does not cause others trouble, also when you can find what you want in higher level zones off of higher level mobs why then take away from the lower level players. Spider Silk and High Quality Bear Skins do drop in other places, however it is the accessability to these here in TSS where a armor quest needs them and is run that appeals to the higher level players I know for a fact thet EK has better drop rate than Mesa but is harder to get to with the new stone in PoK it is just 2 zone lines and not much of a run at that for EK for spider silks and hands down the best place for bear skins and pelts is but a megus hop from GL to Nedaria, but because there is a guild hall portal to mesa this is now the preferred place to hunt <read that slaughter>.

Now if you want to go have "Fun" the go out to those zones like Icefall or Steeps and hunt your silks and get exp to boot or your bear pelts in Icefall or steeps, more people tend to see their fun as getting what they want with no risk with the attitude of others be hanged.

I do not go into the game with hostility I rather go in open minded but it is these actions of others and their attitude that I should :
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"Maybe you should consider that all higher level players aren't out to mistreat the little guys. We only expect the same thing from the game that you do, to have fun. Different people have different ways of getting enjoyment from the game. It is inevitable that your playing style will conflict with someone elses. When that happens, you are a lot less likely to spoil your evening and their evening if you don't go into the event with built in hostility."
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that tears me up. Farming for tradeskills is not "Fun" it is and has always been a drudge, however if there is an easier to get to pace or and easier way to do it then this is the chosen path, and woe be those who get in the way.

The original post by Kozinad:
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Is Spider Silk Filter

Trivial - 190

Recipe: 1 Celestial Essence
1 Mesa Recluse Spinneret
2 Spider Silk

considered to be a legitimate and legal skillup recipe for tailoring from 158 to 190? If so will there be other recipes (apparently unfound as of now) that will allow for tailoring to be raised even above 190 while farming exclusively in TSS zones?

I would LOVE to be able to skillup tailoring strictly in TSS zones. As it is it somehow felt like cheating to take an alt (ok a level 70 alt!) to Crystal Caverns (non TSS zone!) to farm for Crystalline Silks (but it was a fun break from TSS). Before I use this recipe to get tailoring from 158 to 190 I would like to verify that it is meant as a TSS skill up path, and also would like to know if a TSS tailoring path will exist and how high that path might lead.
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Is an example of what I would call the "right attitude" note how he says he felt like somehow cheating by taking his higher level toon to a zone that is soo hard to get to that he will take them to an easier to get to zone. Accessability is the key here not really is it a good skill up path the Mesa Recluse Spinneret only drops in this one area and not really all that common so no it is not a viable path.

Take your farming of trade skill stuff someplace out of the way so as not to interfere with others who are trying to do a quest and let them have their Kill quotas which if you have not checked into these quests there is a quota and if you do like again i quote Kozinad:
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Well I guess other level 70s are not treating the level 45s very well then For me when I saw other people fighting I would buff em up, and if they were trying to get Ursula or Fatoma to pop I'd kill a few extra bears or wolves to increase the odds of popping one. If they were fighting in an area for xp (like when a 41 sk was fighting in the spider caves for xp), I'd either buff em up and leave or just leave depending upon my energy level and/or mood. The caves were open often enough that this did not hinder my skillups in any great way.

I guess I should not be surprised that level 70+ toons are being rude to level 45+ toons. It still makes me shake my head...
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And to kill off a few extra bears trying to get Urusala or Wolves to get Fatoma to pop then you really are eating into their needed kill quotas.

Do not get me wrong I think Koz has seen the light and well he will either buff them up or leave and come back when they are not there. Attitude is the key, and I am afraid that many do not share this kind of attitude that Koz has. they prefer to think that they have the right to overpower others and take by force what they want.

Ok, I am off my soap box till next time. However though I do have toons up into level 75 I will always champion the plight of those less fortunate and less able to do what I can with my higher level, and will always in every way give them the right of way. This is my idea of what is right, and to do othewise would be a dishonor to them and a disgrace to me.

[Elyssanda]

I feel for any lower people who are trying to level and tradeskill at the same time, whether or not they have a higher toon to play with.

If I need to farm mass quantities of something in a lower zone, I will do it at a time when there is no one else wanting/needing those mobs. If I am in the middle of a farming session, and a lower toon asks me about looting stuff for a quest , please go ahead.. I'm not working that quest so I'm not picking up what you need anyway, it's gonna rot. (and this has happened more than once in those spider caves in Mesa.)
Also, twice I've had an aug drop on mesa while farming.. I don't need it, so I OOC to the zone anyone who wants... both times it has gone to someone who could use it.

I'm sorry that as a bard, I can't really help lower classes with buffs and the like... can't even help my hubby when he's looking for buffs

the mesa recluse spinnerets is a great way to skill up, low high, or inbetween unfortunately it doesn't drop anywhere else, but the spider caves are open often enough to easily farm it if you are using that skill up route.

[Mahlig]

I am going to have to agree with Leana. Though it was very thoughtful (and appreciated by many) of Ngreth to put lower level traderskill items on exp giving mobs, it does not mean that players need to forego any other mobs to get same said items. If I am farming spiders and a lower level comes over and says "Hey, stop killing those because I need them for a quest", I should stop because they just walked into the zone and want the camp? Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here.

Leana said it best...we are all in it to have fun. If someone is already camping them, move on to something else...just like you are asking the higher level person to do. Nothing gives any one person more right to a spawn than another (though, in my eyes, being there first should indicate it...SOE does not recognize "camps"). I don't care if you are level 1 or level 75, you can kill whatever you want (and can). I really find it laughable when someone says that farmers should yield to PLers.

If you want the camp, get there first. If the level 75 comes and takes the camp, it is possible he is a jerk...or he did not see you. Just say politely, "Sorry, but I was here getting some exp. Are you going to be killing these long?" Usually, that will either make the 75 feel bad or he will ignore and continue killing...in which case you can move along. More often than not, the former will occur (I know, because I have done it several times on more than one server). I have also been that 75 who did not see the person farming (yes, a full frontal respawn while the other person was deep in). When I realized what I had done, I apologized, gave the lower person the loot I gathered and left (often to bring my cleric back to buff him and/or group). I *have* left when I was farming (as the only person in the zone) and had people come in to get exp. Just because the mobs were grey to me and worth exp to them did not give them the right to the mobs. I just would rather avoid the confrontation (which is kind of odd, because I am very confrontational irl).

The be all, end all is that it is a game. And if someone does not see things your way, that does not make them wrong or "in the wrong". If someone is farming greys where you want to exp, go get exp somewhere else. Do a different quest or task or whatever. They are not impeding you. Only you can impede yourself.

[Strokker]

This is an excelent example of someone who kind of gets it...

I feel for any lower people who are trying to level and tradeskill at the same time, whether or not they have a higher toon to play with.

If I need to farm mass quantities of something in a lower zone, I will do it at a time when there is no one else wanting/needing those mobs. If I am in the middle of a farming session, and a lower toon asks me about looting stuff for a quest , please go ahead.. I'm not working that quest so I'm not picking up what you need anyway, it's gonna rot. (and this has happened more than once in those spider caves in Mesa.)
Also, twice I've had an aug drop on mesa while farming.. I don't need it, so I OOC to the zone anyone who wants... both times it has gone to someone who could use it.

I'm sorry that as a bard, I can't really help lower classes with buffs and the like... can't even help my hubby when he's looking for buffs

the mesa recluse spinnerets is a great way to skill up, low high, or inbetween unfortunately it doesn't drop anywhere else, but the spider caves are open often enough to easily farm it if you are using that skill up route.

The fact that they drop in the caves is fine the armor quest cannot be done off those spiders, but they do not go into the caves they go after the ones in the open ares that is towards Steeps before the Giants. These Spiders are the ones needed for the quest the others will not or have not updated the quest for my toons. It is good that you give way to lesser ability players, and I applaud you for it.

Now for another example of someone who does not get the picture here...

I am going to have to agree with Leana. Though it was very thoughtful (and appreciated by many) of Ngreth to put lower level traderskill items on exp giving mobs, it does not mean that players need to forego any other mobs to get same said items. If I am farming spiders and a lower level comes over and says "Hey, stop killing those because I need them for a quest", I should stop because they just walked into the zone and want the camp? Sell crazy someplace else. We're all stocked up here.

Leana said it best...we are all in it to have fun. If someone is already camping them, move on to something else...just like you are asking the higher level person to do. Nothing gives any one person more right to a spawn than another (though, in my eyes, being there first should indicate it...SOE does not recognize "camps"). I don't care if you are level 1 or level 75, you can kill whatever you want (and can). I really find it laughable when someone says that farmers should yield to PLers.

If you want the camp, get there first. If the level 75 comes and takes the camp, it is possible he is a jerk...or he did not see you. Just say politely, "Sorry, but I was here getting some exp. Are you going to be killing these long?" Usually, that will either make the 75 feel bad or he will ignore and continue killing...in which case you can move along. More often than not, the former will occur (I know, because I have done it several times on more than one server). I have also been that 75 who did not see the person farming (yes, a full frontal respawn while the other person was deep in). When I realized what I had done, I apologized, gave the lower person the loot I gathered and left (often to bring my cleric back to buff him and/or group). I *have* left when I was farming (as the only person in the zone) and had people come in to get exp. Just because the mobs were grey to me and worth exp to them did not give them the right to the mobs. I just would rather avoid the confrontation (which is kind of odd, because I am very confrontational irl).

The be all, end all is that it is a game. And if someone does not see things your way, that does not make them wrong or "in the wrong". If someone is farming greys where you want to exp, go get exp somewhere else. Do a different quest or task or whatever. They are not impeding you. Only you can impede yourself.

To this person I have to toss right back at ya...If you are farming where othere need to get experience then go someplace else. I did not say I was really powerlevling my toon only there to heal which is in a way PL'ing of sorts. But to go out of your way to get right up next to the lower level and cast a PBAE spell that wipe all in range INCLUDING those I was working on and then proceed to loot even the ones I was working on this is an example of WRONG...no matter how you may try to sugar coat it.

You good people must not remember other camps that got the nerf bat because it caused confrontation between High level players who would not yield to the lower level players needs like the Aqua gobbies or Green Gobbies in BB, but I do. and because the higher level players who HAVE the ability to go elsewhere AND farm what they want chose to take the easier route AND ignore the needs of lower level players that brought teh nerf bat out. SOE said ok well then we will just nerf it to where the high levels wont get plat from the loot...it also coincidently made it to where the lower level players could not get plat either...

I think you have missed the boat here and it is just because you want an easy to get to farm spot and that is all you can go other places and get better but because you can set a GH portal and come into Mesa to farm you do it. Eventually the same thing will happen here as other places just because of the easy access and the laziness of high level players... I pity you people for your inability to feel for others and bow to their needs. I however will always yield to others less capable than I and this topic has gotten way off track.

You Mahlig have stated you like to be confrontational and you are not alone. But I personally will say no more I jhave stated my views here in this topic many times over and stand by them and appologise to others who see this, for my part but in my defense I olny try to point out to others this should not be considered a prime spot for farming because of the quests going on and we all should yield to others who are trying to do these quests.

So my final words here in this topic is please be considerate of those who are trying to do the quests and give them the opportunity to finish them, including the kill quota needed. I have said enough and will say no more no matter what you may say in return to me the topic is closed.

[KyrosKrane]

To this person I have to toss right back at ya...If you are farming where othere need to get experience then go someplace else. I did not say I was really powerlevling my toon only there to heal which is in a way PL'ing of sorts. But to go out of your way to get right up next to the lower level and cast a PBAE spell that wipe all in range INCLUDING those I was working on and then proceed to loot even the ones I was working on this is an example of WRONG...no matter how you may try to sugar coat it.

You have two distinctly different complaints here. First, you're saying that high level people should yield to lower level ones, and second, you're saying that someone intentionally KS'ed you.

On the KS thing, I agree with you. It's rude and improper, and in your shoes I would /report the KS'er casting the spell and petition him/her for zone disruption and harassment.

On the high level player in a lower level zone thing, though, I can't agree with you. Just because I'm 75 and raid geared doesn't mean I can't have fun in lower level zones. Maybe I enjoy the feeling of superiority I get from mauling level 1 newbie mobs, or level 40 exp mobs, or even level 75 mobs. Heck, maybe I'm even doing the same quest you are, just for the faction. Everyone has the same chance to get the camps and loot in this game, within reason and making allowances for play times and styles.

If you go to a camp looking for a quest drop and find a farmer, try sending the farmer a tell. Most likely, he's destroying the quest drops or letting them rot. The polite ones will let you loot. The rude ones ... well, they usually go on my ignore list.

If you go to a camp to farm TS items and find someone else there also farming, well ... tough luck. It doesn't matter if the guy is a high level player farming mobs that are green or gray to him, or if the guy is of a level to get exp, or anywhere inbetween. He has as much right to be there as you do. Come back another time; or ask him to share the camp; or go farm something else, sell it for cash, and buy what you need in the baz.

There is a persistent fiction that one player is more deserving of a particular camp than another player because the former can get exp and the latter can't. It probably started from some feeling of overall justice, that the lower level player is somehow more deserving since he could benefit more. I don't know who came up with this myth, but as like as not, it came from a lower level player trying to justify why the camp should be taken away from a player who was already there farming. The actual rule, enshrined in the PNP and in player tradition, is "first come, first served." Whoever engages the mob first gets to kill it. Whoever is working the camp first gets to hold it. In the very rare times when a GM (or more likely in the old days, a guide) would intervene, the solution was to either alternate spawns in the camp or /roll to determine who gets to stay; the loser would have to leave.

Personally, I think it rather selfish to demand that someone else stop having fun just because you want to do what they're doing. To extend your argument to its logical extreme, you could say that raids on non-instanced targets should yield to lower level groups who want to kill that same target, because the lower level group would get more benefit from the loot -- even though every rational measure tells you the lower level group will wipe on the first trash mob of the event.

Let me give you another example. Let's say you are at 286 tailoring, and your only real option is Othmir Fur Caps. You're farming at the othmir camp, clearing it about as fast as it spawns. Another player shows up wanting to farm as well. He's the same level as you, but his tailoring skill is 285. Should you yield the camp to him? After all, he has more "need" than you for those furs. What if the player who shows up is of a level to get exp, but he explicitly tells you that he will keep all the fur drops to sell in the baz later? By your logic, you should yield the camp to the lower level player.

[Flehmen]

Hmmm, for a second I thought I was in the primal scream room... I've removed my comments except to thank those who buff, share, camp check, or whatever they do to play nice.

Ten.

[Maevenniia]

I have to agree with Kyros.

Yes, high-level players often do vacate a camp they are at if lower level players who wish to exp there come along, but they are not obliged to leave if they were there first, and they also are not immoral or evil if they don't leave.

Personally, if I am in the mood to farm, I like to gather up a gajillion mobs and PBAE them.. I''m a wizard, I blow stuff up, I LOVE doing this, hehehe. So I need lots of gray mobs that don't hit hard....when I'm in a farming mood, I don't care about exp at all. BUT, I won't do this if I see someone else is in the camp, I tend to do my farming at times when zones are deserted, anyways. And if a lowbie arrives and asks me if they can exp there, or loot quest drops? Sure, no problemo...if they want exp I'll probably move on elsewhere, if they just want quest drops I will help em out and step up teh farming so they can get what they need faster, hehe (refer back to the "I'm a wizard" comment )

DISCLAIMER: The above comments are my personal opinion, and have nothing to do with the fact I closed the thread. The thread was closed, as explained below, because it was not productive and was degenerating....not because I agree or disagree with any particular opinion in the thread (although I do have my own opinion, I'm not a robot....)

Anyways, I think this topic is rather emotionally charged, people have their opinions and their pet peeves, and before this degenerates further, I think we'll close 'er down.