Hurricane Chain or Plate Desirability

[Boleslav]

Wyrmbane,

I am:
1/1 Hurricane Plate Gauntlets
0/1 Hurricane Chain Sleeves
(That's when I decided not to try to sell the stuff…)
1/1 Hurricane Plate Vambraces

2/3 total, not bad

Bolesalv Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 61st Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[wyrmbane_]

Sigh,

Please take this is the humorous vein intended as a fellow smith Boleslav, but you suxxor

as for chain, it isn't as bad as all that...granted, I have only made 1 piece of each for a friend

1/1 chain tunic
1/1 chain legs
1/1 chain gloves
1/2 chain arms
0/1 chain helm

so all in all, I am 4 / 6 in chain, and 0 for 4 in plate.

wyrmbane

[Taraddar]

What are those of you that are selling these for actually getting for them?

Made some chain sleeves and a coif and put em up on a vendor. Only other hurricane for sale at that point was another coif at 20k so I matched those prices. I haven't sold either of mine and as far as i can tell the other vendor hasn't sold his coif either.

So what are you guys getting for em on your server?

[Haphern]

Bristlebane: Hurricane sleeves, which I will probably stick with until they find Darkmail Vambraces (/sigh), I sold for 17.5k.
Pure Rain is mostly 3-4k in bazaar atm, 50% success on Hurri Chain so far so 3k-ish profit per piece. Also sold 2 gloves for 15k each, both made before Darkmail and 1 selling either side of it hitting the market although the only pieces I will attempt from now on are the sleeves.

Darkmail will, depending on price, almost certainly kill off most pieces of Hurricane Chain and possibly Plate too (if it wasn't already). It makes a rather good alternative to high-end cultural for those that are lacking (no GM smiths/agnostic). The Tae Ew sellers (Tunic/Pant) should continue to sell reasonable well as DM BP is very under-statted compared to the rest and the legs are no-drop.

[wyrmbane_]

finally succeeded

ok, so I finally made my Hurricane Plate Gauntlets.

Went 1 for 5 attempts. There is way to little data to prove the following statement, but it is a reasonable guess based on stats / success of Boleslav and me.

Hurricane plate has a trivial similar to the BD cultural. So an expectation of 33% success is not reasonable. Just a guess, I have no where near enough data to show this is the case. Just seems to make sense.

wyrmbane

[Eumerin]

Also remember that these have right click effects on them ranging from very nice on the pally's to so-so on the shadowknight's.

The paladin effect "nicety" is subjective. Go say that over at PoN.
It is a nice utility to have clicky Crusader's Touch, adding a spell slot in effect if you need it, but otherwise falls short compared to other BPs.

Are those the effects on the real items? The rogue BP listed avatar, the real one doesn't have a click.

IIRC, the pure melee classes got always on effects for their PoP quested armor (i.e. the ornate and elemental molds). I think the pure casters (both int and wis) did, as well, although I could be mistaken on that.

The hybrids got a lot of clickies mixed in.

:roll:

[Taushar]

Well, had 3 rains and a bunch of pearls around so I thought I'd get my friend to do a combine for me on Hurricane Plate Gaunts. My smithing is not quite there and he's maxed out.

I did some running around and figured out I needed 2 more rain for tempers. Then I fail on one of sub-combines so I had to get 1 more rain. On Xev, rain goes for 4kpp. I ended up buying 3 of them total. I finally got all of them together and he failed on combine. Oh well, it was worth a try since it would have been a nice upgrade for me.

Maybe I will stick to BoT and try to get the mold drop instead from what I have seen in this thread. 0 or 5 attempts? Sheesh, I would be broke long before I try for that many attempts.

Taushar

[Reflan]

Kylong darkmail is very nice, and since it's new, it goes for quite a premium.

The only thing about it is that many pieces lack AC to a very notable degree, and generally fall short on hitpoints too. For instance, the boots are 16 AC, whereas the cultural I make is 32 AC. The belt is one of the nicer kylong darkmail pieces, and has 60 hp just like my cultural, and has 8 int/wis, unlike my cultural(ogre/troll), but then again my cultural has 20 mana. At any rate, kylong belt has 15 AC and ogre cultural has 21. An INT of 8 is better than 20 mana, but is it worth 6 AC? Hmm. The kylong darkmail tunic has only 30 AC, which is pretty uninspiring. The legs have some decent-ish stats, but the AC is only 33 on them, compared to 42 on ogre cultural. All this may mean less to, say, a shaman than a melee, it still matters. And it definitely adds up pretty quickly. About the only piece that outdoes my cultural plate or is terribly competitive with it is the gloves, to my tastes. The AC is similar, and they have a lot going for them.

I bought kylong darkmail shinguards(legs) for my twink SK, and found his hitpoints were significantly higher with the cultural I had made him, as was his AC. The added INT didn't seem worth wearing an otherwise notably inferior piece. And classes like warriors, of course, don't find added INT compelling at all. Kylong darkmail is nicely campable and a stepping stone to good cultural, but definitely not a replacement. The one thing it seems to have going for it is INT, so I guess it would be especially good for toons like my SK. But even he is not terribly impressed at having to lose so much AC and generally a noteable amount of hitpoints to wear kylong instead of cultural.

Kylong fills a nice niche, but on closer examination, it seems less and less remarkable except for the gloves and perhaps the belt. And neither of those were particular triumphs.

[Boleslav]

Sorry to rub it in Wyrmbane, but I made a BP on the first try last night for a friend. That leaves me.

1/1 Hurricane Plate Gauntlets
0/1 Hurricane Chain Sleeves
(That's when I decided not to try to sell the stuff…)
1/1 Hurricane Plate Vambraces
1/1 Hurricane Breastplate

3/4 pretty good!

Boleslav Forgehammer (who stole Wyrmbane's lucky hammer a while back)
Paladin of Brell in his 62nd Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[Ilona]

As I said earlier in the thread, I've made several pieces.

1/1 plate helm
1/1 plate gaunts
1/2 plate bp
1/2 plate sleeves (i think)

4/4 chain sleeves

[Eumerin]

Kylong darkmail is very nice, and since it's new, it goes for quite a premium.

The only thing about it is that many pieces lack AC to a very notable degree, and generally fall short on hitpoints too. For instance, the boots are 16 AC, whereas the cultural I make is 32 AC. The belt is one of the nicer kylong darkmail pieces, and has 60 hp just like my cultural, and has 8 int/wis, unlike my cultural(ogre/troll), but then again my cultural has 20 mana. At any rate, kylong belt has 15 AC and ogre cultural has 21. An INT of 8 is better than 20 mana, but is it worth 6 AC? Hmm. The kylong darkmail tunic has only 30 AC, which is pretty uninspiring. The legs have some decent-ish stats, but the AC is only 33 on them, compared to 42 on ogre cultural. All this may mean less to, say, a shaman than a melee, it still matters. And it definitely adds up pretty quickly. About the only piece that outdoes my cultural plate or is terribly competitive with it is the gloves, to my tastes. The AC is similar, and they have a lot going for them.

I bought kylong darkmail shinguards(legs) for my twink SK, and found his hitpoints were significantly higher with the cultural I had made him, as was his AC. The added INT didn't seem worth wearing an otherwise notably inferior piece. And classes like warriors, of course, don't find added INT compelling at all. Kylong darkmail is nicely campable and a stepping stone to good cultural, but definitely not a replacement. The one thing it seems to have going for it is INT, so I guess it would be especially good for toons like my SK. But even he is not terribly impressed at having to lose so much AC and generally a noteable amount of hitpoints to wear kylong instead of cultural.

Kylong fills a nice niche, but on closer examination, it seems less and less remarkable except for the gloves and perhaps the belt. And neither of those were particular triumphs.

Are you comparing the Kylong Darkmail to Plate or Chain cultural? The vast majority of the Kylong Darkmail that's dropping is, in fact, CHAIN armor, and thus should not be compared to plate cultural. In other words, don't ask the paladins about whether or not the armor is any good. Ask the rangers.

The Shinguards are a noteable exception to this (even though they have a chain graphic), and I think there's another plate only piece that drops off of the dragon, but I have yet to see a full "set" of plate armor from Veksar that corresponds to the chain set.

[Reflan]

Well there are two kinds of kylong coming out; super junky chain and regular plate. And there are pieces that can be worn by both chain and plate classes; this is probably what people think of when they think of "plate" kylong darkmail. I've seen a lot of gloves coming out; I was comparing all the pieces I have seen, basically. Mostly plate, because I was trying to determine whether any of that stuff would be better for my SK than my own cultural.

However, I can wear items like the gloves even though I am a shaman, a chain class, and so can my SK. It's not all one thing or the other with the kylong.

It's worth noting perhaps that my cultural chain is fairly uninspiring except for the legs. It's not too hard to outdo; but it still often out does the yucky kylong chain.

But mainly I was addressing how good kylong darkmail was for my plate-wearer, not my chain-wearing shaman. Coincidentally, though, my shaman can wear the gloves too.

What I think I'll do is probably make my SK some cultural gloves and then put some kylong gaunts on my shaman. If I don't like the result on my shaman, they'll be an easy resell on the market at this time.

[motarjafal]

success rate on hurricane plate so far

I still miss data as i've done only 2attempts on Hurricane plate.
So far i've got:

1/1 Hurricane plate helm
0/1 Hurricane plate gauntlets

imho, there's no real market for hurricane plate if people keep selling drops of pure rain around 7k pp each minimum (those are prices on Saryrn server...). Maybe if people sold them for around 2k pp, smithes would start to do some business... not yet though...

[Eumerin]

Well there are two kinds of kylong coming out; super junky chain and regular plate. And there are pieces that can be worn by both chain and plate classes; this is probably what people think of when they think of "plate" kylong darkmail. I've seen a lot of gloves coming out; I was comparing all the pieces I have seen, basically. Mostly plate, because I was trying to determine whether any of that stuff would be better for my SK than my own cultural.

However, I can wear items like the gloves even though I am a shaman, a chain class, and so can my SK. It's not all one thing or the other with the kylong.

It's worth noting perhaps that my cultural chain is fairly uninspiring except for the legs. It's not too hard to outdo; but it still often out does the yucky kylong chain.

But mainly I was addressing how good kylong darkmail was for my plate-wearer, not my chain-wearing shaman. Coincidentally, though, my shaman can wear the gloves too.

What I think I'll do is probably make my SK some cultural gloves and then put some kylong gaunts on my shaman. If I don't like the result on my shaman, they'll be an easy resell on the market at this time.

Err...

The awful Kylong is Kunark era chain stuff. Its lousy, and no one will argue with that.

But the majority of the Kylong Darkmail coming from Veksar is ALSO chain stuff. Just because warriors, shadowknights, and other plate classes can also wear it doesn't change this. Its the "lowest" class on the AC totem pole that determines the quality of the armor, and since chain classes can wear most of the Kylong Darkmail, the Kylong Darkmail is chain armor.

The Kylong Shinguards are classified as plate because only plate classes can wear them. The Kylong Darkmail Breastplate (AC 30 plus stats) is chain armor because rangers, shaman, and rogues can wear them it addition to the plate classes, and should NOT be compared with cultural plate. Otherwise, you're complaining because rangers can't wear an ac 50 bp, and while I'm sure the rangers wouldn't mind having gear like that from Veksar, it does cause problems in other departments.

Edit: The only exception to the Kylong Darkmail = Chain rule is the Kylong Darkmail Legs, which iirc, drop off of the dragon. Like the Shinguards, these are also strictly plate classes only, and are much better than any of the chain darkmail armor.

[Reflan]

Can't support entirely your reading of what's plate and what isn't. To me, mail is chain by definition, and plate is plate by definition. Otherwise, words mean nothing.

It's true they sometimes do, though. Naming conventions are hardly infallible. But I'd still rather stick to English than not.

Note when talking about the AC of chain versus plate, too, the shinguards you definite as plate, but they have AC more in line with chain -- and not super great chain either. Then again, the kylong darkmail gauntlets have the AC of plate, yet they are wearable by chain classes as well. You asserted that the lowest class on the AC totem pole determines the quality of the armor, yet kylong darkmail gauntlets have pretty much the quality of plate, which would seem to contradict that.

So if an item you define as plate is pretty much the AC of chain, and an item you define as chain is pretty much the AC of plate -- I'm not sure if whatever definitions I'm very casually using are very good ones, but yours don't seem to work all that well either.

Not that it matters really.

My first post was just pointing out that kylong stuff isn't really as great as it seems. And I guess that kind of implies it isn't worth the hype it's getting for the most part, or the prices in the bazaar it is getting. I've seen some pretty outrageous prices for kylong, and it seems to be very popular even at those prices. I'd take the idea of kylong replacing BD cultural with a grain of salt. It may well do so, especially on some pieces, for a period of time. But when the newness wears off, people will look more carefully once again at what they're spending their money on.