Under Review

[Angelsyn]

There is no smithing recipie over 188 trivial that doesn't require no drop or enchanter made components - excepting human freeport cultural which trivials at 215 before you need enchanted or imbued items. Therefore I CANNOT vendor mine components for skill ups without engaging an enchanter (or priest).

Yes, Ethereal Sheet of Metal

Ethereal Rings & Sheets are only good for 210-212 now, unless you're in some Uber Guild (or a Large Race in a semi-Uber Guild) and have one of the +10% or +15% mod items. Utterly worthless. Additionally, for that same range in Tailoring, Ethereal Silk Swatches are much cheaper to vendor-farm & make.

Studded acrylia, all tradable components, no enchanted components.
Reinforced acrylia, same.
Arctic wyvern hide, same.

No enchanted components, is correct. But I have to smith and brew them as well. I can't sew metal bits into studs !

And I have to Brew Tempers (higher trivial than oils for Tailoring) and Sew Paddings (higher trivial than studs/boning). Your point being?

[Bennan]

My whole point being, this is not some waving a body member out to show how big a man I am for doing X tradeskills.

Believe it or not, Tailoring has the exact problems that Smithing shares. Massive time requirements, and Massive cost requirements, which if people like it or not is truer for Tailoring than Smithing. As you have AT least a choice of a cheap skill up path.

Thats the whole point here, Smithing is not two times harder than Tailoring, I know because I HAVE PERSONALY done all these timesink camps, for both skills. They are if anything equal.

Throwing arguements about how hard it is to skill up on BA or Acrylia and CT smithing, is nonsense. They are not in the game to be skilled up on. Just like Haze Panther, Holgresh etc.

The only thing I am seeing is, in Smithing we don't have the choice of being able to Vendor mine all our ingredients. Well in Tailoring we don't have the ability to use a cheap skill up path.

Can't we all see the similarities that both of these skills share, at the very least ?

[kiztent]

(to get back to the original point), I think this lack makes smithing more difficult.

That is not the Original point. Your statement Smithing, is TWICE as hard is the point.

That wasn't my statement, I just happen to agree with it.

If there is another recipe set with trivial over 188 that doesn't, I'd love to hear what it is.

That was the question, Shadowscream is the answer. There was no mention of Vendor Mining, in that statement. And yes I was being Anal over that

Sorry, shadowscream was already out of consideration. It's not vendor minable which is my point.

There is a path for tailoring that is completely vendor minable. I detailed it above

Ok if I go slowish, I can do about hmm 80 to a hundred combines of Shadowscream, a week. Thats about one and a half hours on Monday and Wednesday about 3 hours on Friday and another 3 hours on Sat or Sun. Note I average about 14 to 16 swirling shadows per 30 mins.

If I want to do 80 to 100 combines of Arctic Wyvern Hides, I have to mine/gather 1200 Small Pieces of Velium, 100 Arctic Hides and 100 Cobalt Cods.

[/quote]

So, given your style of play, you can get smithing combines faster. This doesn't concern me. I'm not discussing farming. I'm discussing the vendor mined path that tailors have that smiths don't. Until you can demonstrate that there is a vendor minable path for smithing, I personally could not care less how fast you gather components. I'm glad that you feel the way you choose to gather components is easier for you. You have an option. I don't. I am not going to invest my time for the sole purpose of fighting a broken zone war. That does not interest me.

I find vendor mining much more amusing that sitting in a light green zone with a broken war trying to kill stuff that runs at 50 health with jboot speed through water. I would be willing to accept a slower skill up rate if it meant I didn't have to deal with the complete, total and utter stupidity of the HSM war and the mobs therein. Too bad I don't have that option.

And you actually have to gather 300 small pieces of velium for skill ups. The small velium amounts you describe would make leggings, gloves, cloak, boots (4 studs per hides) which you may need to do for some other reason, but masks have the same trivial.

Then I have to make the Velium Vapors, which for every 2 studs means I have to have 4 of them available, and to make one of those it takes 4 cel essence (a simple 2 combine) and a coldain heater (a three combine). Or I could just buy them, at 27ish pp I think.

Actually, coldain velium temper is store bought - it CAN be brewed for cost savings, so "have to" is not proper usage. Velium vapors are for the thurgadin gate potion for the 4th coldain prayer shawl, so I'm not sure what that has to do with tailoring. I guess you meant tempers there.

In a week, on Tarrew Marr, EVEN if I bought as much as I could from the bazaar, got real lucky from Vendor Mining, and Hunted non-stop... I would be flat broke, and suffering from sleep deprivation, and I doubt I would have all those needed components, and thats just one week. I recently got super lucky in the bazaar, 120 small pieces of Velium, for 20 pp each. Most days there is not one piece of Velium at a realistic price, remember I have to compete against fellow tradeskillers to buy this stuff.

And your point is what?

How many smithing combines worth of goods can you find on vendors? Zero.

I don't pretend to keep track of every tailoring combine I find, but I can tell you the number is greater than zero (barring a quick fishing trip - or hell a long one, I don't have to trigger a war in cobalt scar to fish. The fish are always biting). It's at least 60 and probably higher.

60 > 0.

So farming suits your play style. Great. I don't particularily care to farm. Too bad I have to.

What you don't understand, is that these recipies for Tailoring that look oh so easy are not. Every recipie has something that is very very painful to gather, in any meaningful quality.

I have gone to great length, to reply to everything you have brought up. You even stated at the start of this conversation, that you are not suggesting Vendor Mining as a realistic method of achieving skillups. But thats what you are doing now.

No that's not what I'm doing now.

Farming is one option - HSM is faster for farming if you can invest the time to fix the war to your need (I'll take your word for it, I'd quit EQ before I spent longer than an hour in HSM), but slower if you can't invest the upfront time to work with the war. I agree with this.

Throwing imbue emeralds at skill ups is an option. I personally dislike the fact that the expensive part gets returned for tailors, but I suppose it all balances out in the end.

I'm not going to contest that for someone that is interested in maxing combines over time, these are roughly equal options. Clear? They become not worth discussing since there's no significant disparity.

Vendor mining is a tailoring option but not a smithing one. Therein lies my contention. It also happens to be my preferred option for skilling up.

Vendor Mining is a BONUS thats it, players that kill in C.S do become aware that Arctic Hides and Cobalt Hides are valuable. As eventually, they see tailors auctioning for it, and then they don't sell it to the vendors !

Thank you for stating my point. Vendor mining is a bonus tailors get. Smiths don't.

The final point isn't that tailoring is easy - no one has ever said that. The point is that farming requires a large upfront investment for smithing (assuming the zone war feels like working), or it requires an enchanter (I'm not even going to discuss the brokeness of various temper drop rates). These factors make smithing more difficult.

[Bennan]

Ok, so basically this all breaks down to different styles of Tradeskilling, trying not to sound patronising in anyway (I hope). And I must note, that all through my posts, I have echoed the statement that Smithing is not twice as hard as Tailoring, its a point as you corrected me on, was not your own, but its a cause you have picked up the flag for.

You have a path for Tradeskilling, that you wish to pursue, far be it from me to even try and change your method of skilling up. And equally I have my method of skilling up.

Its just that the method you enjoy is much harder than the one I choose to employ. And thats the crucial point here, looking back you are basing everything on the way you Tradeskill, and not comparing all the possible paths to skill up to 250 from both. Shadowscream, is being dismissed because you dislike doing it. Thats fine, but it is a existing path of skilling up, and needs to be taken into consideration.

You sound like you would be extremely happy, if you could get a recipie that you could fully vendor mine. But on the same token, I would be happy to get a Shadowscream path for Tailoring to 250.

I am not insane here, I don't enjoy farming green after green for hours at an end, but thats the price I have to pay in BOTH skills.

If I only vendor mined for Tailoring components, I would get nowhere fast. Vendor mining is the same for both skills, Cool I got a Drake Hide, or Cool I got a Windstone.

And on Acrylia Hide Masks, and correcting my math mistakes;

recipie is 1 velium stud 1 mask pattern and 1 Arctic Hide;

The stud is made by;

2 small pieces of Velium + 1 Velium Vapor = Velium bits
3 Velium bits + file + Velium Vapor = 2 Velium Studs.

Thats the store bought route, at 28 pp for each Velium Vapor, thats 112pp to create the two studs;

Or if I make the Velium Vapors its;

Brown Algae + Shotglass + Water + Allspice = Coldain Heater
Scent of Marr + Solvent = Celestial Essence
4 Celestial Essence + Coldain Heater = Velium Vapor.

So to make two studs that equals, under 40pp.

AND, to make those two studs took 6 pieces of Velium, or WHAT I should of posted was 60 small pieces of velium, for 20 studs, or again WHAT I should of worked it out as for 200 small pieces of Velium, would equal 63 Studs/attempts (I hope I worked it out right this time).


Hopefully my last comment in this thread, for me to agree to smithing being twice as hard as Tailoring, then the only way possible is that Shadowscream would not exist as a recipie. It does exist but, and if a player chooses not to do it, that does not make the tradeskill any harder, but only the PATH choosen harder. Imo