Announcement

**Ngreth Thergn** · 02-03-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by mewkus

Shortly after DoN was released, SOE said that they were going to be doing some major overhauls to tradeskills. They redid the skillup rate equation (making the quick part quicker and the long part looonger). One of the next stages of the revamp was going to be dropping the trivial on a bunch of the stuff that people use to skill up on. They already did that to tailoring. Shadowscream armor was given as an example of a smithing combine whose trivial was way too high for the resultant item (ie shadowscream trivial is gonna get dropped). MCS is part of the solstice quest and the tailoring equivalent got dropped to 252, so it's been rumored that MCS would be similarly dropped.

We've survived one expansion (DoD) and have another one comming in a couple weeks. Ngreth already announced that alchemy's getting an overhaul. But said that such announcements aren't usually made prior to such major changes (see previous example of tailoring).

Has there been any announcement/rumor as to when the shadowscream and MCSs are gonna be useless for us? I know Brenlo said that he was gonna allow time for them to work out what changes they were going to make and foster discussions about it before implementing them. But having made such statements wasn't sufficient enough to convince them to fix the tailoring nerf (ok, have I harped on the tailoring thing enough already), so I wouldn't doubt that they'd spring something like this on us with PoR release.

Well

Despite that statement in the announcement. I will try very hard to convince him to NOT do something that wasted "collected" stuff again, and I think that I can convince him of that.

I don't know how to phrase this right.

What is meant by that statement is we said something because there is the possible detrimental effect, (the waste of materials)
Like I am not announcing any of the OTHER things that are coming in the expansion for tradeskills , that are "additions only" even though some of them are things people have asked for for a while.
So it is not to say we will not announce something again if we plan on doing something that would have a possible detrimental effect, than can be assuaged by people doing some pre combines... just that we will not be announcing things if
#1 there is no detrimental effect. We like giving surprises

#2 if there is no way to avoid the detrimental effect (not that I can think of something like this right now, but it is possible)
In this case, there is a way players could avoid the detrimental effect. By using their gathered materials. So we gave a warning.

**Nolrog** · 02-03-2006, 12:21 PM

Heh. One small statement from Ngreth, followed by half a page of disclaimers.

**Ngreth Thergn** · 02-04-2006, 08:44 AM

Well..

If you guys would jsut enjoy it, and not nitpick and doom-and-gloom.... I would not have to make disclaimers!

**Xodar** · 02-04-2006, 06:29 PM

/confort Ngreth

Hehe, thanks for the information. Less nitpicking then wanting to know everything, hehe, but I do sometimes wonder if the Devs in game surname of choice is HatesLucy, lol.

Your work, and communication is appreciated.

**Liwsa** · 02-10-2006, 11:01 AM

Millions of tailors would have loved any kind of that advance warning when tailoring got changed.

Any info is good info. Thanks.

**Rawckett** · 02-10-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by Liwsa

Millions of tailors....

Heheh. Quite an exaggeration.

**burnttoastv** · 02-10-2006, 03:18 PM

I do believe dedicated tradeskilling requires a dab of the nuerotic to keep at it. The goals are rewarding, the journey there makes you remember WHY it is rewarding

.

**Tellis Stormchaser** · 02-15-2006, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn

Well..

If you guys would jsut enjoy it, and not nitpick and doom-and-gloom.... I would not have to make disclaimers!

We would enjoy it if you all would be straight foward about stuff. Like the guy said, you're disclaimer is longer then your comment of "assurance." The tailoring nerf should have been out right reversed giving people a chance to use up stuff. The way you did it was all wrong. You deserve to get trashed for it.

If you all would behave like real professionals and think about the you customers, we wouldn't have to complain as much.

Sorry, I know wrong forum for flame.

**Xenephex** · 02-15-2006, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Tellis Stormchaser

We would enjoy it if you all would be straight foward about stuff. Like the guy said, you're disclaimer is longer then your comment of "assurance." The tailoring nerf should have been out right reversed giving people a chance to use up stuff. The way you did it was all wrong. You deserve to get trashed for it.

If you all would behave like real professionals and think about the you customers, we wouldn't have to complain as much.

Sorry, I know wrong forum for flame.

Ignoring, for the moment, that your post was unnecessarily rude, I would just like to point out that both not announcing and pre-announcing have their downsides. Yes, it is possible that a number of people had unused stocks of supplies when tailoring was nerfed, but look at the other scenario also.

When BD cultural was introduced, we were also given a one month (or so) lead time announcement that FP trivials would be reduced. The result was not people using up their 'unused stocks'; the result was a veritable feeding frenzy of people skilling up, resulting in, among other things, the overnight price increase of leather paddings from 100 plat a stack to closer to 10 times that amount - a price increase which has never reverted to realistic levels, for reasons which remain completely unclear to me.

And LP was the only thing in a Fine Plate combine that couldn't be store bought. Think about what might have happened had they pre-announced the tailoring nerf? Rampant price inflation and competition for drops, and I'm betting that those prices would also never have recovered to their real levels. Would that have made your life easier overall?

When something is changed, there is no way to make everybody happy about it, but I think they do what they can to minimize the damage. Before you go calling someone 'unprofessional', at least recognize that they are considering many more factors than those which made you dissatisified.

**Tellis Stormchaser** · 02-15-2006, 11:34 AM

What if's? /sigh

What if's are amazing things.

What if everyone who had saved the stuff got a chance to use their items? Would that mean they'd have not been unhappy? Most would not have complained.

The people would have dealt with it. Some small number of the vocal would have complained. But there'd wouldn't have been the cry for torches and pitchforks.

Look at the alchemy change incoming. I don't hear the complaining. They've announced it. Granted Alchemy was messed up for a long time and any change will be welcome. But if you are going to make a major change to a tradeskill or the game for that matter, it's a good idea to say something clear and concise ahead of the change.

They didn't with tailoring and they ended up with an angry customer.

Once again board moderator, this isn't the forum for this commentary of mine.

**Wyvernwill** · 02-15-2006, 12:19 PM

One key difference with Alchemy vs Tailoring is the perception of the change.

Alchemists have been crying for a change for years. They have been begging and waiting for a change to make skilling up cheaper and easier and fixing some of the poor combines. If the change were to make things harder, you'll see more than torches and pitchforks.

Tailors however, have been constantly grumbling about how the skill up path is so hard and expensive. Being that path either entailed Arctic Wyvern Armor or Solstice Robes, everyone saw it as too difficult. When Master's level armor was introduced, they figured it would make it easier, then found that a lot of the armors were very difficult to farm for. Then when the "easy" paths were removed, people threw a fit. The lost usefullness of items the people had was minor. It was the fact that people now saw tailoring as beyond difficult, bordering on Fletching-ly bad.

I didn't have one complaint about the change then, I don't now. I lived through the Fine Plate change, the Elemental Armor changes... and the elemental armor changes cost me roughly 200kpp easy. Removing the jointing was a minor change, it just happened that I had done a lot of precombines and hadn't done the final combines yet. The devs have done some great things with tradeskills since the days that I started... they had admitted to their mistake, but they also said it was a change they were going to make, it just got made early.

It's funny how I still hear about the tailoring nerf, but I haven't heard a single complaint anymore about the roll-backs from the recent mistake. Drop the grudge and move on.

**Ngreth Thergn** · 02-16-2006, 11:54 AM

And then there is the fact...

I did not work for SOE when the tailoring nerf happened

But becuase people are nitpicking now, I have to put disclaimers now.

If life was perfect... no disclaimers would be needed. But stuff happens, schedules change, I am not in charge, blah blah blah... you get the idea.

**Ngreth Thergn** · 02-16-2006, 12:18 PM

And additionally

To me, putting in disclaimers *IS* being responsible.

I currently do not have 100% control over things. Since I do not, I cannot make any actual promises. Since I cannot make any actual promises, I put in disclaimers so that you are sure it is not a promise.

I think it would be even more irresponsible to promise I will do something, when I just do not have that much control over it.

I *AM* taking responsibility. Responsibility to the fact that I am not the final word on many matters, and thus on many matters I cannot "promise" or "Guarantee"

I also felt it was my responsibility to say SOMETHING and not just let the question sit out there unanswered to stew and fester. I took the responsibility as far as I was able and made the statement I made, disclaimers and all.

Would you really prefer that I only answer things I can guarantee?

If so it will become rather quiet from me, but if the players really want that... I will "listen to the players"

**mewkus** · 02-16-2006, 12:55 PM

This thread seems to have been distracted into a discussion about alchemy, tailoring, disclaimers, etc. Let me get back to the original questions

1) Will shadowscream armor & mcs have the same trivial after PoR as it does today
a) Yes, it will
b) No, it wont
c) We aint saying

2) Is the original plan to muck with the trivials of smithing (and other tradeskills) still progressing
a) Yes
b) No
c) We aint saying

Announcement

Shadowscream and MCS

Shadowscream and MCS

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