portable forge idea

[gathrintain]

probably beaten to death (yet i hold out hope).

a forge/toolbox that is limited to ore break down and weapon break down.

I don't need to make armor in crystal caverns, but it would be nice to be able to break down those velium blocks and maybe in the future those velium weapons.

If it's limited in use, then maybe we could see it live one day.

[Krazick]

Yes, this basic idea of a "portable forge" has come up before.

Although I don't think there has been a specific request to limit the container to just ore breakdowns...

However... I think the main reason they keep REFUSING to do this is to try and cut down on just what you are trying to do. IE. FARMING.

They want you to work for what you get. They want you to feel the weight of lugging around twice your capacity and slow you down.

SOE does NOT want you to farm add-nauseam.

SOE wants you to go out and explore the content provided.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record, and keep repeating the same mantra... but until the player bases accepts the way things are, rather than trying to get something for nothing...

[Judanu]

I don't need to make armor in crystal caverns, but it would be nice to be able to break down those velium blocks and maybe in the future those velium weapons.

There is a forge in Froststone (?) that you can use to beakdown your bricks and blocks already. Just keep your chisel in one of your bags and drop in when you're full up.

[Koru]

Err, yes, but trying to do smithing without farming is kind of... well lets be honest about trade skills in EQ. In particular smithing and tailoring, they either come down to paying a high price to buy these ores from another player or farming. If they are saying "Well go out and enjoy the content rather than spend all your time farming" then that's kind of daft when said content won't help your trade as getting the ore would. Now if it were an AC2 type game where you could use the vendor junk you get from other content as components I'd agree. But to put it bluntly, there's going to be farming of some sort at some point.

The only question is becomes it's me farming the ore or me farming cash items and paying others who've farmed the ore? If the issue would be people monopolizing camps where ore drops (I suspect this would also be an issue) then perhaps the real problem is that there are too few places to acquire it and too many people who want it. The weapons meltdown would help with that, why compete with 5 other farmers for ore if I could go kill more mobs for weapons to make into ore? Incidentally I can't say lugging around all that heavy ore slows me down in the slightest thanks to those ingenous halfling tailors. All it does is make sure that every 3 hours or so (ironically by the time my KEI/Virtue starts getting dispelled or drops I'm usually full on ore on all my chars) I fire off Circle of Knowledge, refresh some buffs from the local buff stations, deposit some coins, make some studs and boning and in 20 mins or so I'm off again and back to farming.

[KyrosKrane]

Krazik, I'm honestly surprised by your reply -- a little shocked, in fact. I might have expected such a reply from a guildie, or from a random player in PoK, but not from the database admin at EQTraders. You know how much farming is required to obtain sufficient supplies for smithing, tailoring, and other tradeskills. You simply cannot make anything of major value in the game for those two tradeskills without farming, and both have dozens of recipes that require velium.

In essence, you're saying that people shouldn't farm, and therefore shouldn't do tradeskills; instead, they should go "enjoy the content." Well, tradeskills is content. Farming is content. It's just a different form of content from what you would seem to define it as.

While it's true there's much more to EQ than just farming, you have to admit that farming is just as much of a time sink (and therefore a reason to keep playing and paying) as flagging, Luclin zone keys, epics, quests, or anything else in the game.

As to whether the developers want portable containers in the game, I'd point you to the Fan Faire thread. The developers were open to the idea of portable forges, brew barrels, etc. They could have flatly rejected the idea as they did several other suggestions, but instead they chose to review it. That tells me that "the way things are" could very well change.

[Nolrog]

However... I think the main reason they keep REFUSING to do this is to try and cut down on just what you are trying to do. IE. FARMING.

Logically speaking, how many of you carry a forge around with you, so you can smith? You can carry a sewing kit, or a portable grill to make food, but forges need to be very hot, and are always stationary.

[Krazick]

Nolrog,

That is exactly the role-play reason not to have a "portable" forge.

Kyros,

As for being surprised by my response... I will state the following:
1. Krazick (Iksar Monk) is my main character started within a week of Kunark release.
2. He is Level 65...
3. His Smithing Skill is 142... Brewing 250, Pottery 216, Baking 192, Tailoring 120 (or so), Fishing 191, Jewelcraft 110

I work on tradeskills -AS I FIND THE MATERIAL- I enjoy (and have enjoyed) building up my character over the years. I don't actively go out and farm it... I tried occasionally and get bored with it in about 10-20 minutes. After about 30 minutes I am restless... and have to go do something else.

Farming I consider to be equivalent of Power Leveling. Doing a repetive action with no risk, and small reward. I don't consider it "content". I consider it a waste of effort.

The only reason I got Brewing to 250 is to make a 3rd attempt at the Tainted Avalance Ale to get Coldain Ring 9. And that I sat and brewed for an hour at a time (max) till I got sick and needed to do something else.

------
As for the developers recently considering portable forges/brew barrels.... recently... If they do change it... I won't whine... I might put my head down and shake it in resignation... but I won't make an issue of it.

Yes, things change... it is the nature of things.

Sorry if I disappoint you... this is just my feelings.

[Silverfish]

Being Content with Content

Krazick wrote:

"That is exactly the role-play reason not to have a "portable" forge."

I can work a forge in full armor with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. I can use a portable spit to bake a cake while sitting underwater on the bottom of a lake. A Misty Thicket picnic is seven items in a picnic basket, but I need to assemble it (including a bottle of beer and a bag of mints in a flammable wooden basket) in an oven. I never have to sleep in-game. I can carry eight backpacks. There are certain gameplay considerations that make roleplaying inaccurate, and even so, it's not too difficult to consider the idea of a portable forge. After all, there's already such a thing, although it's currently limited to use in making ornate and elemental armor. Conceiving a small, magically light forge that gets its heat from a magic conduit to the Plane of Fire isn't too hard in a world full of spellcasters and tinkers that can build SCUBA gear.

Krazick further wrote:

" I work on tradeskills -AS I FIND THE MATERIAL- I enjoy (and have enjoyed) building up my character over the years. I don't actively go out and farm it... I tried occasionally and get bored with it in about 10-20 minutes. After about 30 minutes I am restless... and have to go do something else."

I think that's quite a reasonable way to enjoy the game, but as you'll agree, it's not going to get you anywhere near the very high end stuff in quite a while. Besides, farming while leveling is how I've made my way. It's not necessary to farm greens exclusively to get stuff for tradeskills, but it's handy not to have to go home regularly if you don't need to. When I was hunting spiders for silk (at a time when I was getting experience for doing so, so I wasn't simply looking for convenience) I could break down what I got to swatches and so stay out playing longer. When I was hunting the Gorge of King Xorbb (again, I was getting experience), it would have been nice to be able to reduce the weight of the blocks of ore I found. As it was, I just threw it away, when I could have been chiseling it down into pieces so it fit in my bags. For roleplaying purposes, I can't see any reason I can't use a chisel to break ore on a nearby rock instead of needing a forge, but for gameplay, that's not reasonable so a "portable forge" of some kind would have been a nice thing. I'd even have quested for such a thing if I could have, so that would have opened up even more content.

Krazick further wrote:

" Farming I consider to be equivalent of Power Leveling. Doing a repetive action with no risk, and small reward. I don't consider it "content". I consider it a waste of effort."

As I said above, take care not to confuse farming with farming greens just for materials, and besides, I LOVE doing tradeskills. I level up to make it easier to get tradeskill components, but I really do play the game to craft. To someone who's experienceing the content the way you are, perhaps it's a waste, but it's just part of what I need to do to be able to stand up from the wheel with a magical ceramic sword for me. Also, power leveling has its place. For a main, I agree that powerleveling is a waste, but I'll give you an example of where I think it's reasonable. One of my guildmates has a very high level warrior. Also, a very high level rogue, and a very high level cleric. All of them have been around since the Age of Scale, and he has gone all over and done much with each of them. Recently, he decided he wanted to try out a Berserker, and so he made one and began hard-charging the experience for him. The reason is that he wants to try out the high end berserker. I think it's not reasonable to say he's missing the low end game by doing this, or that he's wasting his efforts. He found a part of the game that he wants to experience, and the best way to do that is to PL his berserker to the level he needs to try out that content.

Krazick lastly wrote:

"Sorry if I disappoint you... this is just my feelings."

No disappointment, because the differences you feel from me are just differences in how we each enjoy playing, and that's what's kept EQ around so long. The problem Kyros (and I, for that matter) have stems from this quote of yours:

" Sorry if I sound like a broken record, and keep repeating the same mantra... but until the player bases accepts the way things are, rather than trying to get something for nothing..."

I take offense that you think that my wanting farming to be easier is simply wanting something for nothing. I've paid my dues playing, and paid hard, so that I can get to the levels of skill I need to be a tradeskill maven. Sure I understand, better than many, that getting skills takes a lot of time, effort and money. But wanting things to go a bit easier so I can get to the content that I enjoy doesn't mean I'm trying to get anything handed to me. A portable forge, even if only for breaking down ores, is no more a "gift from the gods" than a portable spit in terms of its effect on the game. That's hardly a spoiler, to my way of thinking.

Silverfish

[Angelsyn]

As a Smith who did the whole "buy blocks in Highkeep, make folded sheets in Highpass, then go back to Freeport to make armour" route...

I see no problem at all with a portable forge. It's been suggested before, and often suggested that it be limited to 4 slots.

Jeeze... people can now Bandage while sitting!

A portable Brew Barrel would be of very limited value (making Tempers, perhaps?) but it would allow people to work on Brewing while adventuring.

A portable Forge (especially limited to 4 slots) would be very valuable to both Tailors (making Pieces/Boning in the field) and Smiths (making Rings/Sheets/Folded Sheets in the field).

Oh, and not everyone hunts for Velium in Crystal Caverns... so the forge in Froststone isn't always an option.

[Koru]

Logically speaking, how many of you carry a forge around with you, so you can smith? You can carry a sewing kit, or a portable grill to make food, but forges need to be very hot, and are always stationary.

I wouldn't mind if it rooted me for several minutes while I got the fire hot enough (quite some time translated into EQ time) and weighted a ton. It's no more implausible than a HUGE number of other EQ features. Playing the roleplaying card would hold more value to me if the game wasn't already filled with completely and utterly illogical things that even magic has a hard time explaining away. You can usually give a game balance or engine related reason for a lot of these illogical things, but try to explain them in RP terms and you'll come up empty.

Such as, how come so many creatures can walk around without their heads, hands, paws or ears? I can understand some of it such as the head being too mutilated by the fight to be recognizable but come now, a brownie without a torso? I froze the little bugger to death with one frost nuke, how did it lose it's entire torso in that process?! Or a ranger making a headshot and then it goes "Did it have a leg?" "Nope" "It's a spider and it was moving, how did it not have at least one leg?"

[Arghargh]

I firmly believe that SOE does in fact want you to farm ad naseum. If it keeps you playing and paying your monthly fee, then SOE is all for it. This game is full of time sinks. Tradeskills for many is just another one.

Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
65 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek

200 Alchemy
250 Baking
250 Blacksmithing
250 Brewing
200 Fishing
200 Fletching
200 Jewelry
200 Pottery
187 Tailoring

[Pyraxis]

Logically speaking, how many of you carry a forge around with you, so you can smith? You can carry a sewing kit, or a portable grill to make food, but forges need to be very hot, and are always stationary.

I have a level 61 fire pet. He's very hot. Exactly what was the reason I can't have this?

[Jarak_akn]

You could make the portable forge root you when in use.

Jarak.

[Kieroth_whiteleaf]

Okay.. while we're talking realism:

One cannot bake a cake in three seconds, regardless of how hot the oven is.

Once a cake is baked, no matter how sloppy you are at cutting, the pieces are still there.

On a pottery wheel if you mess up a bowl, the clay is still there and you can try again.

You can fire multiple things at the same time.

I've never seen a sewing kit large enough to hold one carcass in, much less 160.

Patterns are reusable.

Making a bow takes weeks, not seconds. For a good bow, anyways.

When you shoot an arrow, it is often recoverable.

Bows need restringing from time to time, particularly when using "old" materials like hemp, twine, and silk.

Only an idiot would put leather padding IN the forge.

Generally speaking, a person can only carry 1-2 large toolboxes full of stuff. 8 is right out.

Holding a trophy while trying to do another task would make your job more difficult, not easier.

If one is skilled enough to make a ring out of silver and a malachite, they are probably skilled enough to make a ring out of silver and amber.

After one kills a gnoll (I'll suspend disbelief on that) it's difficult to carry his brew barrel around. The Gnoll must be a badass to be able to fight you while carrying it.

So yeah, a portable forge isn't exactly the most stunningly realistic thing I can think of to lug around (but it IS possible, people do it at craft faires/festivals/etc) but I can think of worse examples of bad realism.

SFG

[Aeght]

This is a world of magic. To a great degree 'realism' does not apply.

A portable forge could simply be very well insulated. As to the other common suggestion of a portable still, realism arguments definately do not apply as you can build one RL. Stills are not exactly high tech....

So that leaves play balance, and no clue why this would be considered a problem there....

Aeght