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**OberonMiM** · 09-15-2003, 08:26 AM

as far as i know they were only bridge gaps. if you read the patch message (i beleive it was that a patch message). It said smithing recipies for those between 180 and 215 (well i guess it was actually 212). There are already things past 212. Its called shadowscream (yes i know you hate to hear it but its true)

**Kanstorm** · 09-15-2003, 10:03 AM

Hmmm not what i wished to hear.

Why did they feel a need to introduce some smithing items as alternatives after Fine Plate?

Whilst it is nice for those who are following in the footsteps to be able to breach 200 without HSM farming, but what about those of us that have already trodden that path.

Why didn't they bridge the other end, 230 upwards then I think it would have been fairer all round but maybe I have a bias view point.

However, the fact still remains it takes a few hours of bashing 'green' mobs to gather the drops for 20 combines of shadowscream. Maybe it would take same amount of time to get similar drops from LDoN.

Here's the difference, it would be action with friends - gaining experience and adventure points and not mindless bashing of greenies.

I seriously feel let down by these tradeskill introductions. As many smiths already 212+ will say, we have gained nothing from LDoN to aid with our skill progression so why bother.

**Pootle** · 09-15-2003, 10:13 AM

Because 188 to somewhere in the 200s was what smithing was missing.

Sorry you missed out on this expansion, but if smithing was easy up to 250 then there would be loads of smiths.

**Ilona** · 09-15-2003, 10:22 AM

From 230 onwards you have a decent enough success rate on BD cultural armour, sickles, tae ew and lower pop items to just make what you can sell or wear yourself and gain your final points that way.

From 188 to 220-ish was where the real "skill gap" was.

**Kanstorm** · 09-15-2003, 10:25 AM

I know what you are saying but think you missed the point of argument.

HSM farming for shadowscream will be present in both pre and post LDoN smithing routes to GM. Think that can be taken as fact.

Why did they feel a need to help climb from 188 to 212? Many smiths have gone before and done this with HSM farming.

So, new smiths will have it easier and have 24 less skill ups to chase with HSM farming than those who have gone before.

Regardless if those 24 points are 188 - 212 or 226 - 250 or somewhere in between it matters not. If they bridged the high end, there would still be 38 potential shadowscream points to get. If we do the math, bridging the low end as they have done, still means 38 shadowscream points.

So they have made smithing "easier" regardless of where the bridge goes. What they have neglected to take into account is those who have already passed the bridge period and are left with a mountain of HSM farming to do. i.e. a potential for 62 skill ups via shadowscream as opposed LDoN enabled smiths 38.

As many smiths that have gone before me, i've been in the battle of shadowscream, have personally gained 28 skill points thanks to it. Have logged countless hours in HSM done a personal record of 75 combines between skill up.

It is for these reasons i believe they let the smiths down with the new LDoN combines. Great for those wishing augmented items, handy for new smiths to save them trials of HSM farming, but totaly useless for smiths already battling in the 200s.

**Kanstorm** · 09-15-2003, 10:41 AM

Thanks for this comment

From 230 onwards you have a decent enough success rate on BD cultural armour, sickles, tae ew and lower pop items to just make what you can sell or wear yourself and gain your final points that way.

I appreciate there have always been other alternatives in skill ups. Folks could do Acrylia smithing for example.

The main reason folks go for shadowscream is the " cost to number of combines per skill up" relationship.

Can't speak for other servers, but to buy components for pop smithing on Bristlebane in the bazaar you are into 4 figure platinum for a single combine! I'm not yet flagged sufficent to get into the elemental planes to claim those prises, and for drops of pure rain in BoT - folks quote over 1k plat as an example.

I've looked into Tae Ew armour, and bashing in CT did indeed catch my eye until i discovered some of the drops are classified as "rare".

In my time I've done various dwarven cultural items and never yet received a skill up. When in my 190s low 200s produced imbued / enchanted dwarven plate. If cash was free to burn, I'd happily do those time and again save the fact need an enchanter for the brellium and healer for the imbued ruby.

With many tradeskill sessions being lucky to yield a skill up in 20 combines, and the worst since i kept more tabs on it being 75 [ the most recent was 47 ] how are these routes viable.

If someone knows an alternative that won't cost the earth, isn't a rare drop, you don't need to be flagged and in an uber guild to get it - then please.... do share that information!

My hopes were high with LDoN as thought this was the answer, but it obviously isn't.

**Ilona** · 09-15-2003, 10:58 AM

What I was trying to imply with that comment was that once you have already hit 230 skill, getting to 250 is more for a sense of achievement than for much better success rates on the highest-level smithed armours.

Personally, I did mainly sickles from about 225 skill, when I could break even on them. I made my own cultural from as low as 227 (for Am), but waited until 234 for Dea since the tempers are rarer.

I'm not suggesting that you do the BD cultural or PoP items as skill-up options if you're power-skilling, but I am saying that from 230-250 I personally just did whatever combines came my way, be they sickles, Tae Ew, cultural or PoP.

It takes slightly longer to skill up, but I couldn't (and can't) farm shadowscream.

Amarantha, 250 blacksmith (high elf)
Deandra, 243 blacksmith (human)

*Note: the above is my own personal reflection on smithing, as seen after raising smithing over 200 on two characters*

**Dunthor Warsmith** · 09-15-2003, 04:33 PM

Smithing had a large trivials gap from 188 (fine plate) to 228 (low triv Shadowscream) - that's a 40 point gap. Acrylia chain did fill this gap, but is expensive with a large number of farmed components. LoDN helped "smooth out" the progression, adding in the new armors (which basically feel like an extension on Fine Plate) to cover the 190s and 200s. That makes this area similar to much of the rest of smithing, where there are at least 2 "reasonable" methods to increase skill, one mostly farmed and the other mostly storebought (but usually with 1 farmed ingredient, ala leather padding, temper ingredent).

Shadowscream would be considered pretty poor choice for skillup at 188, if you ignore the cost per combine. Think about skilling up on Acrylia plate, Mistletoe cutting sickles (or BD armor if you're of a race that can). It wouldn't be reasonable, and people would be clammering for a gap filler recipe. That's what these LDoN recipes are for.

Shadowscream is an anomoly - its low raw platinum cost makes a huge trivial jump (and associated abysmal success rate) tolerable to many people. It doesn't make the problem less needing to be fixed, it just means more people are willing to "just deal with it".

**Morniel** · 09-21-2003, 12:56 PM

/boycott shadowscream!

228 smith, haven't done a single shadowscream combine, not one... nor do I plan to! I, for one, absolutely can't stand farming greens for tradeskill components. I have a limited amount of play time due to real life committments, and the majority of my time online is spent raiding. I simply don't have time to sit for hours in HSM farming.

I think the addition of the LDoN armors is very nice for those who feel the same way I do... people who either don't have the time/ability/patience to farm. I wish that I could have gone that route! It would have saved me a ton of plat.

Better yet, I wish that I had raised my smithing to 250 back when you could do so with fine steel... but c'est la vie. At least I got to 175 on banded, back in the day. Then to 188 on fine steel, to 192 on cultural, 192-212 on ethereal metal rings/sheets (/hugs creator hammer), to 220 on cultural again. I was paying up to 150pp per essence of shadow, and 50pp per elven blood... and having to find enchanters to help me with the enchanting - add in the sapphires and it wasn't cheap, but to me it was worth it to not have to farm for hours on end. Cleaning breastplates got me to 227 (/hugs coth mage), 228 from doing hurricane chain for a friend... and if I make it to 250 it won't be on shadowscream, it will be by using my skill to help my friends - or perhaps by making things for sale (BD cultural, sickles, etc). I have a feeling it's going to be the one skill I don't have at 250 for a very long time.

Anyway, I can understand the feeling... I felt the same way when patty melts were added in after I raised my baking to 200+ on two characters back when halas pies and misty thicket picnics were pretty much the only viable options to raise it past 188 - and to get to 188 you had to spend hours farming centi, or hours foraging mushrooms to get to 202. I can look back at it now and realize that it was just sour grapes.

**Dimorfia** · 09-22-2003, 04:55 AM

Woodelf need high lvl cultural smithing BADLY

I have done shadowscream amor 188 - 222 ZZZzZZzzzzZZzz
After a few months break from smithing I have farmed shades for 130 combines more but still cant get stamina to go to back HSM

/smile Dimorfia

**Herculez** · 09-23-2003, 02:22 PM

Stick with it

All you can do is stick with whatever method you have chosen. I personally went from 200-234 on a combonation of mostly SS, Some BD ogre armor as i got closer to 234, and some Tae Ew when it was still worth a good chunk. The best advice i can give all you up and coming smiths is just to stick with it. I plan on doing a few more SS combos just to use up all the substance i have in bank ( 200 of each type atm ) then going all BD armors. For those of you who think that BD armor ISNT a viable skill option i want you to really go look at the cost to make vs market price. I am down to charging 2500pp on 1 sheet combos ( boots, bracers, visor, collar ) 5000pp on the 2 sheet items, and 7500pp for BP's and Legs. At these prices and my success rates i still make huge profits when i can find buyers, the trick is dont make items and try to sell but auction your "ability" to make items then just produce whatever a customer wants. I dont know about other servers but on karana 2500pp a sheet is very low price for culturals and i make 3-4 times the cost to produce per success. All you can do is pick your path and go for it, Sony does NOT want there to be many GM smiths on any of the severs so just keep in mind that you have chosen to go down a path not many can complete and know that when you finish it, even if you never make 1cp smithing for the rest of your eq life that you have done something great and exceptional.... BTW remember that the maximum skill you need is only 240 as the maximum modified skill is 252 which can be achieved with base 240 + any 5% skill mod item ( Ive been told by a few that the skill cap of 252 has been changed, but until i read it here im gonna stick with that).

Herculez SkullCracker
234 Ogre Smith + Trophy
Karana Server

**Newmoon** · 09-23-2003, 03:31 PM

Actually, I think they added the smithing in just the right spot. Before the trivials were lowered, cultural for barbarians was the perfect way up, as an alternative to fine plate. Fine plate went to 240ish. Maybe in the next expansion they'll add some more, but I doubt it. They have added recipes with each expansion. You complain about it being hades to skillup on SS, how do you think people felt before that came in? What about back when metal sheets didn't stack?? The run to qeynos hills for sheet metal, then back to halas forge.. ugh. Rinse, repeat. After banded, I went straight to barb cultural. It was a great alternative to fine plate at the time, and was actually sellable for 200 to 250pp per piece. The fine plate market was nearly dead at that point anyway, but leather padding sold like hotcakes

Ore didn't use to stack either. Talk about a PITA. There were a few hard feelings when the trivs came down, because some people power skilled, as soon as they saw BD cultural. For that month and a half, you couldn't find a leather padding! People were offering me upwards of 500pp a stack! I have never sold it for more than 5pp per, and never will. Don't complain that it got easier for "the new guys", just be grateful it was made easier for you!

**Agouth** · 09-27-2003, 07:12 PM

You used to be able to skill up to higher levels with fine plate armor as well, sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't. If you happen to be in the 220-250 range now and got those skill ups(from 188 to 220) post fine plate nerf then you were the unlucky one.

**Moraganth** · 09-27-2003, 10:01 PM

.. because.. it's supposed to be more difficult the HIGHER you go.. not easier.

Addition of the ldon combines were right about on track, although it should have capped at 218 (30 points in between from fs cap)

Is it useless to someone that's already gotten 212+.. sure, but, in theory, you gained from being 212+ before the rest of the people who did use those as a pathway. Was it useless overall. no.

There are pathways other than SS past 188, it's the choice of each person as to which they want to take.

Announcement

Smithing trivs 220+ ?

Smithing trivs 220+ ?

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