How to "guess" at a recipe?

[Noitaerc]

Is there something that helps guess at what inks and such would be usable for making a spell that basically has not been made for one class, but has sorta been made for another? Would they be close?

Basically i'm talking about Concussive Blast Rk 2. it's a hate reducer, and i'm thinking it should be close to Enchanter hate reducers.

[Shadrok]

The quick answer

Read the "Systematic Spell Research" books available from the research vendors. They describe what each of the various reagents does. Look up the spell information on some other site to make sure you know all of the effects of the spell you are trying to make:

Concussive Blast Rk. II
Classes:
Wizard level 71
Description:
1: Decrease Hate by 5000
Recourse Effect: Concussive Blast Recourse
1: Chance to create Lifeshard(35)
2: Chance to create Lifeshard(35)
3: Chance to create Lifeshard(15)
Spell Type: Detrimental
Resist: Magic (0)

Wizard = Quill of the Arcanist
Level 71 = Rough Paper
Detrimental - Debilitating Thickener (Enervating?)
Resistable = Luclin's Ink Additive
Decrease Hate = Ink of Forgetfullness (Tranquility?)
Create Lifeshard = Ink of ???

I haven't been able to make any of the spells that create Lifeshards. Maybe someone else has.

[Noitaerc]

drink of vitae rk 2 has a chance to make a lifeshard:

1 x Consuming Thickener
1 x Ink of Pain
1 x Ink of the Nameless
1 x Luclin's Ink Additive
1 x Quill of the Arch Lich
1 x Rough Paper

but it has a damage component to it.

Preternatural forsight rk 2:

1 x Ink Additive of the Nameless
1 x Ink of Zek
1 x Ink of the Tribunal
1 x Invigorating Thickener
1 x Quill of the Prophet
1 x Rough Paper

but is a buff.

adrenaline surge rk 2

1 x Ameliorating Thickener
1 x Fine Runic Paper
1 x Ink Additive of the Nameless
1 x Ink of Pain
1 x Ink of Tunare
1 x Quill of the Storm Warden


sry, nothing is common (reread different inks)

[Noitaerc]

oh... clinging frost is 68 dod and wizzy spell that possibly creates a lifeshard:

1 x Arcane Thickener
1 x E'ci's Ink Additive
1 x Fine Vellum
1 x Ink of Pain
1 x Ink of the Listless
1 x Quill of the Arcanist

gonna go experiment

[Noitaerc]

ok, here's what i've played with:
ink of forgetfulness makes target forget
ink of innoruk affects hate
ink of druzil ro is for magic resistability (dont think this is right)
ink of the nameless summons misc items
luclin's additive since spell shows magic resistance
debilitating thickener or conjuring

but no matter what combos, nothing combined...

[Aanuvane]

Of all the spells that are researchable that reduce hate - its done with Ink of Innoruuk and most also seem to take debilitating thickener (see Boggle and Tome of jarring Strike Rk. II).

Of all the spells that are researchable that have a "lifeshard chance" - I can't find anything consistent between them. I'm surmising that the "lifeshard" is "extra" benefit a spell has a chance to give you - for example: Adrenaline Surge might surround your target by a ward of nature to absorb some incoming dmg. In this case, the spell description says that there's a chance that the hate generated by your next three fire, ice or magic spells will be greatly reduced. Could this mean it also needs an ink of e'ci, ink of ro and ink of druzzil ro or maybe ink of rainbows, ink of saryn, ink of bertox? Does that change the thickener from Debilitating to invigorating? Does that change the additive from Luclin to Nameless? Or maybe Zeb or Veeshan?

I've tried all these combinations with 1, 2 and 3 inks of innoruuk all to no avail, but if someone else is also working on it - maybe some of this helps.

[Noitaerc]

just fyi, clinging frost does not have a lifeshard component to it. it has a snare. don't know if the original spell did or not.

[Blackruby]

Looking at the Spell I would try the following combanations first.

================
Concussive Blast Rk2
================
Parchment:
=Rough Paper (Level71)

Quill:
= Quill of the Arcanist (Wizard)

Ink Additive:
= Luclin (Magic)(1st Choise)
= Nameless (irresistible)(2nd Choise)

Thickener:
= Arcane (Target DD) (1st Choise)
= Consuming (Lifetape/Stats transfer) (2nd Choise)
= Conjuring (Summoning)(3rd Choise)

Ink:
= Innoruuk (Hate)
= Zek (Attack/Weapons) (Possible)
= Nameless (Multiple Stats/Bags/Misc Items)(Possible)
= Pain (Damage)(Possible)
===================

[Aanuvane]

It can't hurt to try anything since the spell obviously doesn't follow the expected path - but I read all the thickeners and inks very carefully, and I'm not sure I agree with your assessments. There's no dmg component, so arcane thickener shouldn't make sense, you're not conjuring anything so conjuring thickener shouldn't make sense and I didn't read lifetap or stat transfer in the spell decription so consuming never cross my mind. I stuck with debilitating from other hate reducing spells and tried invigorating because of the "lifeshard" part of it. Even threw in mitigating and soothing for giggles - all to no avail.

Completely agree that luclin's ink additive is the first choice and ink additive of the nameless is second. I really don't think Veeshan's Ink Additive or Zeboruuk's Ink Additive make any sense when you look at the other spells they're used in, but since the systematic research book on those says they're used for special cases - I tried them anyway.

Again, there's no dmg to the spell, so Ink of Pain shouldn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure I tossed in ink of the nameless as an experiment - but I think ink of the nameless is supposed to affect stats, not saves - that's why I thought ink of rainbows instead - because its affecting fire, cold and magic. I tossed in Inks of Zek and Pain while experimenting even though there are no weapons or dmg involved. Nothing combined.

Hopefully some generous experimenter will find the magic combination soon for folks. I played around for two hours the other day and finally gave up.

[Blackruby]

Aanuvane I agree with you!

I have tryed for the last two days, even got my old/Updated Checklist out for making spells and had no luck.

This "Spell" does not seem to follow any of the rules layed out from before.

If you look at my checklist you will see where I was heading with the spell, I have tryed over 600 combanations on this one, with no luck.

The Effects beside the Inks/Additives is something I took from the books/scrolls from ingame.

On Consuming Thickener it says " Transfers energy from one being to another", I guess my discreption is a necromancers interpation of that meaning!

I think the "lifeshard" effect is a bonus of the spell with no specific Ink/Thickener/Additive, being a necro and having the withered (Plant spell line) that we get lifeshard, and the others mentioned above. There is no clear patteren in any spell researched to get a lifeshard that i can see!

I know the Spell went Live from the Patch message:

=======
EverQuest Update Notes - February 11th, 2009

*** Tradeskills ***
- Created research recipes for the following missing spells, Concussive Blast Rk. II
=======

But I am calling a "Foul" on this one, this is the first Spell I have not been able to crack since the "New Spell Research" has gone live. ;(


This is my Quick Checklist for making New Spells/Tomes.

Quill's:
====================
Names For Class
==================== ==============
Quill of the Arcane = Pure Caters
Quill of the Arcanist = Wizard
Quill of the Arch Convoker = Magician
Quill of the Arch Lich = Necromancer
Quil of the Archon = Cleric
Quill of the Coercer = Enchanter
Quill of the Deceiver = Rogues
Quill of the Divine = Healing Classes
Quill of the Dread Lord = Shadow Knight
Quill of the Feral Lord = Beastlord
Quill of the Forest Stalker = Ranger
Quill of the Fury = Berserkers
Quill of the Knight = Knight Classes
Quil of the Lord Protector = Paladin
Quill of the Maestro = Bard
Quill of the Martial = Tank General
Quill of the Overlord = Warrior
Quill of the Prophet = Shaman
Quill of the Storm Warden = Druid
Quill of the Transcendent = Monk
===============================================

Ink Additive's
==================
Names Resistance
================== ===============
Bertoxxulous Ink Additive = Disease
E'ci Ink Additive = Cold
Ink Additive of the Nameless = Irresistible
Luclins Ink Additive = Magic
Ralos Ink Additive = Physical
Ro's Ink Additive = Fire
Saryrn's Ink Additive = Poison
Veeshan's Ink Additive = Chromatic
Zebuxoruk's ink Additive = Prismatic
================================================

Ink Thickener
===================
Names Thickener Properties
=================== =====================
Al'Kabor Thickener = Area Effect Direct Damage
Ameliorating Thickener = Single Target Instant Heal
Arcane Thickener = Single Target Direct Damage
Assuagung Thickener = Area Effect Heal over Time
Conjuring Thickener = Summoning
Consuming Thickener = Lifetap or Stats Transfer
Debilitating Thickener = Single Target Debuff
Enervating Thickener = Area Effect Debuff
Expaitating Thickener = Area Effect Damage over Time
Extending Thickener = Single Target Damage over Time
Impairing Thickener = Effects that draw out over Time
Invigorating Thickener = Single Target Buff
Mitigating Thickener = Area Effect Instant Heal
Soothing Thickener = Single Target Heal over Time
Striking Thickener = Directly do damage to another being
Tailsman Thickener = Area Effect Buff
================================================== =

Inks
=================
Names Ink Properties
================= ========================
Ink of Affliction = Increase damage done with Throwing
Ink of Alacrity = Haste
Ink of Ayonae Ro = Charm
Ink of Barrage = Increase the chance to Cripple
Ink of Bertoxxulous = Disease Resistance
Ink of Breaching = Increase the attack for 2H weapons
Ink of Bruising = Increase Minimum amout of Damage one Does
Ink of Catastrophe = Increase Critical Damage
Ink of Cazic Thule = Fear
Ink of Clout = Some action when the user strikes
Ink of Decay = Corruption
Ink of Deftness = Increase the chance to attack twice in one swing
Ink of Druzzil Ro = Magic Resistance
Ink of E'ci = Cold Resistance / Water Pets
Ink of Expedition = Hands move so fast there seems to be hundred of them
Ink of Fending = Increase the ability to Parry
Ink of Finesse = Do Damage using one or all skills
Ink of Forgetfulness = Memory Blur
Ink of Infliction = Increase ability to Damage Done by attack
Ink of Innoruuk = Hate
Ink of Marr = Stun and Stun Resistance
Ink of Myopsis = Reduces the awareness of a targetso one can approach closer before it reacts
Ink of Obstruction = Reduce the ability of a target to request help from allys
Ink of Pain = Damage
Ink of Prexus = Mana
Ink of Proficiency = Ruduce time it take to recover the ability to use a skill
Ink of Rainbows = Multiple Resistances
Ink of Reach = User makes a Ranged attack
Ink of Retort = Increase the ability to Riposte
Ink of Ro = Fire Resistance / Fire Pets
Ink of Saryrn = Poison Resistance
Ink of Screening = Increase the ability to Block
Ink of Smashing = Increase ability to Critically Strike
Ink of Striking = Increase ability to Hit a Target
Ink of Terris Thule = Curses
Ink of Tranquility = Mesmerization, Lull
Ink of Transformation = Responds to Bane Spells
Ink of Tunare = Hit Points
Ink of Xegony = Air Pets
Ink of Zek = Attack / Weapons
Ink of the Bear = Stamina / Bracelets
Ink of the Boar = Endurance
Ink of the Cat = Agility / Belts
Ink of the Companion = Pet Summoning
Ink of the Dal = Wisdom / Mantles
Ink of the Eagle = Vision
Ink of the Erudite = Intelligence / Earrings
Ink of the Listless = Slow (Movement & Attack)
Ink of the Martyr = some action when the user is Struck
Ink of the Monkey = Dexterity / Rings
Ink of the Nameless = Multiple Stats / Bags / Misc Items
Ink of the Rathe = Earth Pets
Ink of the Rhino = Strength / Bracelets
Ink of the Serpent = Charisma / Chokers
Ink of the Tribunal = Armor Class
===============================================

Parchments
=================
Level Parchments
===== ===========
01 Stiff Hide
02 Cleaned Stiff Hide
03 Prepared Stiff Hide
04 Smooth Stiff Hide
05 Crude Hide
06 Cleaned Crude Hide
07 Prepared Crude Hide
08 Smooth Crude Hide
09 Pristine Crude Hide
10 Rough Hide
11 Cleaned Rough Hide
12 Prepared Rough Hide
13 Smooth Rough Hide
14 Pristine Rough Hide
15 Hide
16 Cleaned Hide
17 Prepared Hide
18 Smooth Hide
19 Pristine Hide
20 Fine Hide
21 Cleaned Fine Hide
22 Prepared Fine Hide
23 Smooth Fine Hide
24 Pristine Fine Hide
25 Supple Hide
26 Cleaned Supple Hide
27 Prepared Supple Hide
28 Smooth Supple Hide
29 Pristine Supple Hide
30 Runic Hide
31 Cleaned Runic Hide
32 Prepared Runic Hide
33 Smooth Runic Hide
34 Pristine Runic Hide
35 Fine Runic Hide
36 Cleaned Fine Runic Hide
37 Prepared Fine Runic Hide
38 Smooth Fine Runic Hide
39 Pristine Fine Runic Hide
40 Supple Runic Hide
41 Cleaned Supple Runic Hide
42 Prepared Supple Runic Hide
43 Smooth Supple Runic Hide
44 Pristine Supple Runic Hide
45 Fine Supple Runic Hide
46 Cleaned Fine Supple Runic Hide
47 Prepared Fine Supple Runic Hide
48 Smooth Fine Supple Runic Hide
49 Pristine Fine Supple Runic Hide
50 Crude Spell Scroll
51 Rough Spell Scroll
52 Spell Scroll
53 Fine Spell Scroll
54 Runic Spell Scroll
55 Fine Runic Spell Scroll
56 Rough Papyrus
57 Papyrus
58 Fine Papyrus
59 Runic Papyrus
60 Fine Runic Papyrus
61 Parchment
62 Fine Parchment
63 Vellum Parchment
64 Fine Vellum Parchement
65 Runic Parchment
66 Fine Runic Parchment
67 Vellum
68 Fine Vellum
69 Runic Vellum
70 Fine Runic Vellum
71 Rough Paper
72 Paper
73 Fine Paper
74 Runic Paper
75 Fine Runic Paper

[Aanuvane]

what an awesome cheat sheet!

I have been trying to figure out the Veeshan and Zeb ink additives, didn't dawn on me the chromatic and prismatic - but I think your list is backwards. I checked a couple spells that use veeshan's and those are chromatic and I checked one of the two spells that take Zeb and its prismatic. Regardless - this stupid spell is magic!

[Blackruby]

You are right I have those two Thickeners Backwards, fixing them on checklist.

[Xerius]

I believe we should not get too hung up on the 'Lifeshard' part of the spells, since that term is simply what the Lucy parser uses for a spell that has a triggered effect in addition to the primary effect (ie. A Necro Poison DD that also has a small chance to create an Essence Emerald, or in this case, a Wizard spell that has a one hundred percent chance to Root the caster).

As we have found no common link between Lifeshard effects on the various spells, I would propose that there is no link, and we should be looking at the effect rather than simply what the parser interprets it as.

Having said that, I have nothing more to offer regarding Concussive Blast, as I spent a few hours pounding out probable, and several improbable, possibilities for it.

[Roanne]

The "lifeshard" parts of this spell effect are actually a chances to trigger a recourse effect that lowers the hate of the next 3 direct damage spells cast if their type matches the recourse types. 35% for fire, 35% for cold, 15% for magic. It has nothing to do with actual lifeshards.

The fact this spell (and many others) doesn't follow convention is an old problem that has been well reported and summarily ignored.

[Noitaerc]

i have specifically asked ngreth and got confirmation that the spell does indeed have a valid recipe (s/he said that it has a valid container, and if the spell couldn't be combined it would have an invalid one).

i've gotta admit, i've been away from the game since wednesday, but have been thinking and reading and rereading about this...

is there something that will make the secondary spell effect?

the first spell effect is the hate remover. the next spell effect is to reduce the hate for the next three DD spells. then there's the possibility of a life shard.

maybe two inks of bertox?