Low level spell research

[Maevenniia]

Apart from changing the recipe for every old system researched spell (did any one count how many spells this involve?) and adding hide drops to zones of all expansions (loot table nightmare), this will also involve some "intend to be rare" spells made common. If the intention is to make those spells stay uncommon, something has to be deviced to keep them that way. Also, there will be a period when some recipes aren't correct and need amendments before they can be made etc.

No doubt, this will be an ideal for Research as a tradeskill. But it's a much bigger headache than it seems. Frankly, I'll rather see our Orge's time spent on something more time effective in the near future. Like adjusting DoN cultural drops . Or put it another way, even though Research is my priority tradeskill, I don't think it's fair if revamping Research is handled before adjusting DoN cultural drops. Smiths and tailors (and wannabe users of DoN armor) have waited patiently for 4 expansions.

Yep, much as i love Spell Research, esp the new Systematic stuff, I can be patient for the revamp of the remaining "old" recipes - they work, it's not broken, just inconvenient, and there's other stuff that's been on the "to-do" list longer...

[Maevenniia]

Sorry dislike I dislike the idea, simply because it does not fit the systematic research principles.

This could be acceptable IF a new Remove Curse spell was added at the same level as RGC (CLR/54 PAL/60 DRU/54 SHM/54) which removes less curse counters then RGC (45) but more then Remove Curse (8). That spell recipe would be follow the systematic research system and would cause a conflict for RGC, in which case you would need the additonal rare component (Yaeth's 73 Right).

Did that make sense :P ?

Much as I understand your objection based on the logic/principles of Systematic Research, ther AHS to be a way to keep the occasional rare spell such as RGC at the same level of "difficulty" that they want it to be..

...however, within the mechanics of systematic research, the ogre could simple require a unique cleaning solution, or special ink, ink additive, or thickener (that is dropped or quested instead of made or vendor purchased) - (on the basis that some spell recipes are more "finicky" than others), that has the desired drop rate (on par with Yaeths 73R, in other words)

[Eanelder]

As much as it pains me to say, rather just not have those spells available thru systematic research then.

And we had a similar discussion in beta ... i still think making spells below lvl 60 "hard" to get is silly. Specially if they are basically required for raid content 15 levels later (referring to DI and RGC).

[Ngreth Thergn]

There is a comment in the original systematic spell research book that sometimes a special paper may be needed for certain spells.

The original plan for that is Ancients... (just the possibility of them... they are still at this time prohibited from spell research... I just allowed for the possibility)

but since it is in that book, it could be something I use for "rare" spells also.

[Strokker]

Not sure I truely understand the logic behind trying to keep the "Rare" spells so hard to get at , well, like the example given "Level 54" so rare and hard to get or for that matter any of the, shall we say, below level 60 spells at all hard to get.

Is it the intent to keep the higher game the exclusive to those who have had the good fortune to have come up with a Server to the rank of level 75 where they can go just abbout anywhere they please and kill as they please any mobs they need for the drops they might need. Do not make the mistake of getting me wrong here I do not feel that all spells should be just walk up and buy em but with the way the servers are now and the number of uber level players who "PL" up their lower alts to help them along or just so they can join other friends alts who are of the same level, it just make no sense to make these spells so "rare" as at the higher levels they virtually have no use what so ever.

I have played EQ now since 2000 and have enjoyed the game and watched many a friend I have had march steadily past me and seen them go forward to these newer zones and higher content and praised them their accomplishments and yet I feel the game is truely geared toward them and others of the higher levels and the higher level game. Just look at some of the armor drops that are now common in these newer zones and the Items you can now make and the quests< BTW if you do a search on Alla's of quest for level 1 to 10 in serpents you only get "1" the Charm of Lore...tell me that there are people who are so low level and new to the game who could not use this, or so high as to not want it either>, but the point I am trying to make here is these items would have been considered GODLY back when I first started playing and yet we have so much of these old recipies that are virtually of no use to anyone, especially when thay can go out and get better drops in the new content that are tradeable to twink out their toons and this really is not twinking because these items are ment for lower levels.

I know this sounds like ranting and maybe it is but I am just soo confused as to the reasoning why do we have to make the so called "Rare" items of yesterday still so "Rare", is it just because "I had to bust my tail to get it , so you should to" or " I dont think you really deserve this or that as it could make leveling up to our level a bit easier for you" <if the latter then you better think again I saw a guild take a toon from 1 to 75 in a week, with epic 1.0 in two weeks, BTW it was a cleric>.

This is why I feel that Spell research needs a major revamp as does all tradeskills and I know Ngreth has a lot on his plate and I think he can count on you good people to help him out with ideas and such and maybe he needs more people in his corner at Sony. Tradeskills as they are now are hard for the lower levels but take a person who has ground out the levels up to 75 quickly < as in my example earlier > then for them it is a piece of cake getting all skills up to 200 plus in no time.

Well, before I get kicked out of here or rode out of town on a rail for "heresy" then I better just go hide in my corner again and pound rocks together.

p.s. Just for the record the Highest toon I have is a 68 Shammy and I take my sweet time leveling him as I want the AA's mostly but I have no Uber high level toon because of real life, I just dont get to sit infront of the comp for hours on end.../grin.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Not sure I truely understand the logic behind trying to keep the "Rare" spells so hard to get at , well, like the example given "Level 54" so rare and hard to get or for that matter any of the, shall we say, below level 60 spells at all hard to get.

Is it the intent to keep the higher game the exclusive to those who have had the good fortune to have come up with a Server to the rank of level 75 where they can go just abbout anywhere they please and kill as they please any mobs they need for the drops they might need. Do not make the mistake of getting me wrong here I do not feel that all spells should be just walk up and buy em but with the way the servers are now and the number of uber level players who "PL" up their lower alts to help them along or just so they can join other friends alts who are of the same level, it just make no sense to make these spells so "rare" as at the higher levels they virtually have no use what so ever.

I have played EQ now since 2000 and have enjoyed the game and watched many a friend I have had march steadily past me and seen them go forward to these newer zones and higher content and praised them their accomplishments and yet I feel the game is truely geared toward them and others of the higher levels and the higher level game. Just look at some of the armor drops that are now common in these newer zones and the Items you can now make and the quests< BTW if you do a search on Alla's of quest for level 1 to 10 in serpents you only get "1" the Charm of Lore...tell me that there are people who are so low level and new to the game who could not use this, or so high as to not want it either>, but the point I am trying to make here is these items would have been considered GODLY back when I first started playing and yet we have so much of these old recipies that are virtually of no use to anyone, especially when thay can go out and get better drops in the new content that are tradeable to twink out their toons and this really is not twinking because these items are ment for lower levels.

I know this sounds like ranting and maybe it is but I am just soo confused as to the reasoning why do we have to make the so called "Rare" items of yesterday still so "Rare", is it just because "I had to bust my tail to get it , so you should to" or " I dont think you really deserve this or that as it could make leveling up to our level a bit easier for you" <if the latter then you better think again I saw a guild take a toon from 1 to 75 in a week, with epic 1.0 in two weeks, BTW it was a cleric>.

This is why I feel that Spell research needs a major revamp as does all tradeskills and I know Ngreth has a lot on his plate and I think he can count on you good people to help him out with ideas and such and maybe he needs more people in his corner at Sony. Tradeskills as they are now are hard for the lower levels but take a person who has ground out the levels up to 75 quickly < as in my example earlier > then for them it is a piece of cake getting all skills up to 200 plus in no time.

Well, before I get kicked out of here or rode out of town on a rail for "heresy" then I better just go hide in my corner again and pound rocks together.

p.s. Just for the record the Highest toon I have is a 68 Shammy and I take my sweet time leveling him as I want the AA's mostly but I have no Uber high level toon because of real life, I just dont get to sit infront of the comp for hours on end.../grin.

When we get to it, maybe SOME of the rare spells will be lightened...
But I can answer RGC directly. It is too powerful. Even in current game. But adjusting it would also have a bad negative effect, so we just leave it "rare".
An Alternate way of thinking of it is... we want people to have to expend an extra effort sometimes. We don't want everything to be "easy" With some things requiring extra effort, it gives some sub-goals to players other than "get that next level/AA"

[Strokker]

When we get to it, maybe SOME of the rare spells will be lightened...
But I can answer RGC directly. It is too powerful. Even in current game. But adjusting it would also have a bad negative effect, so we just leave it "rare".
An Alternate way of thinking of it is... we want people to have to expend an extra effort sometimes. We don't want everything to be "easy" With some things requiring extra effort, it gives some sub-goals to players other than "get that next level/AA"

I can understand that thinking Ngreth but the fact is most will just bypass this system in favor of EXPing to get those higher levels then if they feel like it just go back and slaughter mobs willy-nilly to get the drops they need with no real effort on their parts. I see many higher level players oftimes just wasting whole zones lower players are trying to eek out what they can in and just saying to the lower players oops sorry didnt see you there and still go abut thier own business. True this is just plain rude and petitioning does not seem to do anygood as EQ has a long standing policy of no camps and if you can outdamage a person then the kill is yours < KSing not withstanding>. But so many times I just give up and say well if you are going to take whe whole zone at least group with me so I can glean some experience from it...Some will actually say yes to this. Personally I would like to see caps on drops where if you are so much above a mob then no loot for you this would keep them from "Farming" lower level areas but then again it would lessen the availability even in the bazaar of tiems needed for research or other trades...Sorry I get this way now and then, but LOOK here comes my keepers with my Dinner Jacket with the buckles in the back...gotta run now...muahaha

[Qaladar Bragollach]

Leveling will not replace a scroll of RGC. Acquiring it for you healers is pretty much a part of raid progression. It's supposed to be rare and it should remain rare. It's already easy enough that you can simply buy it with LDoN points which are absolutely trivial for a normal group of the appropriate level to acquire.

[Strokker]

RGC aside I agree with some being still "Rare", but not all and if it takes a raid to get the required items then it does not really fall into my argument of Higher levels wiping whole zones, YET, I have seen and have seen posting of Higher levels who take out old world Raid mobs with ease SOLO. Now THAT is farming...lol...oops gotta run here they come again...tata