Should I make DoD Spells?

[Sui Generis]

I have just over 200 research, and I make spells and sell them in the bazaar and make a fairly good profit, with a skillup every once in a while on the 227 triv ones. I've looked at the DoD spell recipes and they seem really complicated. My question is, would it be worth it for me to switch to DoD spells to skill up or stick to what I'm doing? I'm not one for a lot of farming, so unless I can buy all the components and sell them for a good enough profit, I'll probably just keep making the old ones. Thanks.

[Menious]

If you aren't in for a lot of farming, stick with the old ones. Granted you can make money off the new DoD research, but it is more for tradeskillers wanting to get 300 cap.

[Qaladar Bragollach]

I dunno about the 61-64 spells and how well you can do on those. As far as 65's though, unless you have or can afford to get your skill up in the 230-240 range and unless you have Arcane Tounges 3, the failure rate is quite prohibitive.

[Zacatac]

It is a rather difficult system. It gets better once you get the receipes in the UI, but it's a neverending process of sub-combines.

I've spent tons of plat, easily 50k, and so far have only 5 skill ups and a dozen 64 level parchments prepared and ready for final combines, which I'm saving until I get skill a bit higher (207 now). It's going to take awhile (and I have 390 INT), so I'll have to be patient on this one.

Tailoring from 200-252 is much easier. . .

[Sui Generis]

50k for 5 skill ups.. yikes. I do want to become a master someday, but I'll have to become much richer between now and then Thanks for the help, I'll stay with my old research for now.

When I do decide to try to skillup, I'm guessing I should keep making the old spells until 227? It may take a while since the words are a bit sparse, but it sounds like it would be easier that way.

[Deadmike]

Old Research

Unless you want to farm the words or play the waiting game in the baz(like i used to do) and then pay WAY too much for the words, when they finally show up, for the combine I suggest you go to DoDH research. I some day want to get to that glorious 300 cap. I am leaving old school behind and turning a new page.

[Maevenniia]

50k for 5 skill ups.. yikes. I do want to become a master someday, but I'll have to become much richer between now and then Thanks for the help, I'll stay with my old research for now.

When I do decide to try to skillup, I'm guessing I should keep making the old spells until 227? It may take a while since the words are a bit sparse, but it sounds like it would be easier that way.

One thing you can do, relatively painlessly, is make the Runic Parchment Cleaning Solution to 243. The Saltpeter and Crystalized Sulfur aren’t too difficult to obtain now that their drop rates have increased. You will need some plat for the gems and platinum bars used in the solutions, of course…

[GnekroeGnomicon]

relatively painlessly

Skilling up from 200-243 on runic solutions alone, would be 1000's of subcombines... 1000's!!! Including about >100k in vendor bought materials not counting the cost of saltpeter and sulfur (which you probably need >2000 of each for a run like that). I think it took me 200 solutions to get from 223-241, so you could probably double that and estimate in the neighborhood of 4-500 solutions for the run from 200-243.

Relatively painless? It is easier (and cheaper!!) to get to 200-252 tailoring than it is to do research to 200-243. ok, ok, they might be on equal footing but I would argue research to still be the more difficult path.

Well, I guess relative compared to skilling up via buying parchments and making spells, and that is only becuase the solutions are a subcombine for the spells...

[Qaladar Bragollach]

Yes its lots of subcombines... but so what. Other than the saltpeter and sulfur, its all vendor.

I went 216-243 on about 200ish runic parchment solutions. It only took me about 2 weeks and I didn't work very hard at it by any stretch of the imagination.

I WISH tailoring were that easy.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Just about any day of the week probably on most servers you could find cod oil and artic wyvern hides and velium for cheaper than you could for the raw materials for the runic parchment solutions. The only difference is that you would probably take a couple of days for enough combines to appear in the bazaar. I would trade checking in the bazaar at the end of each day for a week over sitting and clicking 5000 subcombines. Then again, unless you have an unsightly large amount of saltpeter tucked away it would probably take you a week or two to collect the 1-2000 saltpeters needed for all the combines from the bazaar anyway (or a lot of farming).

Tailoring < 252 IS that easy. Before they revamped the number of combines to get to 252 it would've been terrible, but now it is a cake walk.

[Qaladar Bragollach]

Its only 10 subcombines for runic parchment cleanser...

1 pure water
3 oil of vitrol
2 finely ground salt
2 muriatic acid
1 aqua fortis
1 aqua regia

1 final combine... 11 total.

Thats about 2000 combines... dunno where you get 5000 from.

I'll take extra money and a few hours of clicking over weeks of bazaar gathering any day of the week. But different stroke for different folks.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

ok, so 2200 combines for 200 combines feels like 5000. I think if you went from 216-243 on just 200 combines you are pretty lucky. 216-243 you could expect about 8.18% average chance of skillups combines (doing linear instead of curve just to make it simpler though it is not quite as accurate but should be close). That means for those 330 (average) combines you would need 3630 combines total, it took me ~250 skill ups (200 solutions and ~50 cleanings/spell combines) to go from 218-241...

However, I would still contend you could purchase all the wyvern hides, cobalt cod, and small velium pieces just as fast as you could purchase the 800 saltpeters (for just the 200 combines) that you need in the bazaar.

So what is comes down to: what is more expensive (research>tailoring), what has more combines (research>>tailoring) and which takes more time to collect non-vendored materials (research~=tailoring). Of course some of this is server dependent as well.

Truthfully, neither are difficult anymore with the right amount of money. But I would contend that research 200+ is more difficult than tailoring 200+. Of course we are both allowed our individual opinions. The one truly saving grace with research is that all of those combines leading up to 243 will eventually be used to make spells, where as most tailoring combines < 252 have little to no value.

[Qaladar Bragollach]

On my server, if you can find more than 5 arctic wyvern hides in the bazaar at once you are doing well. If they cost less than 300pp you are doing really well. Sulfur and Saltpeter are available by the hundreds. I did 240-252 tailoring on solstice robes (after the nerf too)... because it was, in fact, faster and cheaper than arctic wyvern. I guess your server economy is drastically different than mine.

YMMV.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

This is true, server economies are going to vary greatly I suppose. On Drinal when I did wyvern hides, there were easily 50-100 available at a time, most in the 150-300 pp range. So I even took my time and just bought when they were < 250pp each. Currently on Drinal Saltpeter there maybe be a 100-200 on at a time at 100-500 a pop. Sulfurs are available in abundance.

Hard to measure things that aren't constant I suppose

[Taadieri]

When I did 227-243 research, I was paying up to 100pp per saltpeter on Drinal but that was before the drop rate increased. If you put a buyer up, you should be able to get all you need for 25pp or less, or just farm them yourself.

As for the store bought components on the parchment solutions, you can either save the solutions and use them for spell combines later, or sell them to a vendor for 90% of the gem / metal bar costs.

The number of subcombines is painful, but not as painful as trying to collect components for hundreds of attempts at the 51-60 spell research recipes.