A research trophy

[Maevenniia]

A research trophy will be coming someday

(As per reports from the Fan Faire)

[Veldin Darkfire]

GOD I hope so!. I've already GM'ed research some time ago (accursed skillups) and seeing as I'll not be GM'ing tailoring anytime soon (225 and climbing so slowly) I'd like to be able to attempt a research trophy.

Stats I'd like to see on it would be something like this...

Grandmaster Researcher's Platinum Quill
LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY,SECONDARY,RANGE,AMMO
Skill Mod: Research +5%
STR: +10 CHA: +50 INT: +10 STA: +10
Effect: Grandmaster's Satchel (Cast Time: 10.0)
WT: 0.1 Size: SMALL
Class: ENC, MAG, NEC, WIZ
Race: ALL


Veldin Darkfire

[Vordok]

Hmmm...I don't know that it is a good idea. The problem is that unlike other tradeskills with trophies, spell research is completely buyable from your guildmaster. What this means is that anyone with a bank account can buy the trophy simply by training up and then doing the final combine. Granted, this requires that the person have the points and money to spend, but I suspect that the only stumbling block there is the former (since you can always get more money). And I don't really know that it is much of a stumbling block at all.

So, if the item is comparable to the other trophies, then for a little over 4.5K (judging from an estimate for training in a post from search plus the cost of materials), you have a shot at a geerlok + Bag of the Tinkerers + nice stat item + infinite summoned bags, which of course is less than the cost of an actual Bag of the Tinkerers.

Yes you could fail. But given an estimated 50% success rate on trophies, that still means that the expected cost is 8K (1K + 3.5K + 3.5K).

Is all that worth 8K? Well, to judge by the fact that a lot of people have trophies, the answer is that it's at least worth 7K. Of course, there is the externality that it is a trophy--there is also the sense of accomplishment that comes with having mastered the trade. But that is also exactly what is missing in this case, since there isn't any accomplishment--the person simply bought their way there.

So, if the trophy is a nice item, people will simply buy it. If it isn't a nice item, and it still costs as much to make the the other trophies, most people won't bother, and those that do will probably feel somewhat ripped off. If it isn't a nice item and it doesn't cost too much to make, people will feel ripped off that their trophy isn't on par with the others.

Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but it seems like a mostly lose-lose scenario (though if they do implement it, if it's like the other trophies I may grab it, since it'll be cheaper than getting my smithing trophy from where I stand at 222).

Vordok

[Moraganth]

Poison making can be bought up also.. and it has a trophy, although it costs substantually more to buy up (250, as opposed to 200). As for a reseach trophy... i'm not sure it's a good idea. It is very easy to get research up. Seems to me it kinda trivializes the idea of a trophy... but then, tailoring was my primary skill.. so that's where my idea of what a trophy means comes from.

[Bootts]

Originally posted by Vordok
Hmmm...I don't know that it is a good idea. The problem is that unlike other tradeskills with trophies, spell research is completely buyable from your guildmaster. What this means is that anyone with a bank account can buy the trophy simply by training up and then doing the final combine.

And how is this any different than... jewelcraft, fletching. poison making, alchemy, brewing, and/or baking? The only tradeskills that actually require adventuring for drops, are smithing and tailoring, and even now you can buy everything from the Bazaar.

[caena]

It's different because when you click "Train Research," you KNOW you will get a point in research.

When you put metal and a gem in a jewelry kit, you have no idea if you will get a point in JC or not.

I trained my research skill to about 170 making spells and then bought research to 200. I'm glad I have a 200 research. But it sure as heck wasn't an accomplishment worthy of a trophy.

Oh, and tinkering requires adventuring for drops.

Caena Trimalchionis
59 enchanter
Divine Comedies on Karana

[Whizbang_Dustyboots]

Heh, tailoring and smithing are EASY compared to tinkering.

"Only smithing and tailoring." Hee hee.

[Mendatenrognabs]

You have slain a netherbian drone!
You have slain a netherbian warrior!
You have slain a netherbian warrior!
You have slain a netherbian warrior!
You have slain a netherbian drone!
You have slain a netherbian drone!
You have slain a netherbian drone!
You have looted a porous mineral block.
*bangs head against monitor*
I hate tah think about skilling up on rebreathers... I was to small a gnome tah try at the time...

[Mendatenrognabs]

I think Vordock's concerns are very valid... Research is a pain only because of the research required spells. 200 mouse clicks and a couple kpp and you have your trophy sounds nothing like the other tradeskills.

My thought would be to allow spell research on 60+ spells, raise the cap on spell research level 55+ to 250, and make the max trainable at a guildmaster remain at 200.

This would be a somewhat better barrier to the power trophy hunter. Between the level 55+ requirement, the ~20 points of regular skillups (220 skill before attempting a trophy), and the cost of components (hopefully around 1k on the player market?) gettiing a research trophy should be at least as difficult as getting some other trophies (In my browsing of recipes baking seems tah be about comparable to what I have in mind in terms of difficulty, time, and plat)

I do want a research trophy, but I also want it to BE a trophy.

[Melzas]

Dont get all elitist on the researchers. You make your own choices one what to GM and go for a trophy in. Anyone who wants nothing but a trophy has but to get a 250 in brewing which can be done in a day for ALOT less than buying up research. On top of that the **** seals are up in the bazaar for 5.5k on my server though it may not be hard to find the comps and a master jewler.

[eniamn]

/agree brewing can be brought up cheaper with a little more work than training research. jc with all bars encahnted and geerlock can get to 250 cheaply with some luck. i am buying up research because the right combos of runes are way to rare to waste on skillups. i need the durn spell. i keep it maxed at my guildleader and pray for sucess. i am jc away from all other tradeskills at 100 and plan to be 1750 someday but without being about to farm for specific runes to do it with i end up with 4 runes for one spell and none of the other runes for it. also is anyone on luclin selling project lightning. i am still trying to make/buy that one. the runes for it just wont drop. it is worth a trophy if poison making is but i'm getting my other trophies first. lv 39 so trying to decide if i want to go for baking and have more fun or just power up brewing.

[Moraganth]

It's not that we're getting elitest... we're offering the view that a skill that can go from 0-200 in 1 minute of clicking "train" doesn't seem to be really worthy of a trophy. Bacially no effort to get the same reward as someone who's done tailoring, or smithing.. seems to cheapen the whole idea of what a trophy stands for.

As for brewing being easy.. well, yeh.. all the components are bought. I did 188-200 so far doing the 9 item combines... in about 2 hours... and i think the sheer pain of that ammount of combines would push brewing into multiple days, plus mulitple days of recovering. Is brewing hard? Not terribly. Can you get to 200 with 200 clicks like you can with research? No.

As for the price of the seals in your bazaar.. yeh, they tend to run around 5k on TM too. Components aren't super hard to get, it's just the cost of them can be prohibitve. 2100 for velium bars, a diamond, jacinth, blue diamond, black sapphire, plus another 535 for rubies for the mana vial... they're spendy to make, regaurdless that you can't swing a cat without hitting a half a dozen GM jewelers.

Am i a 200 researcher.. yeh. I was about a year before LoY came out and made it useful again.

[Whizbang_Dustyboots]

Originally posted by Moraganth
It's not that we're getting elitest... we're offering the view that a skill that can go from 0-200 in 1 minute of clicking "train" doesn't seem to be really worthy of a trophy. Bacially no effort to get the same reward as someone who's done tailoring, or smithing.. seems to cheapen the whole idea of what a trophy stands for.

Exactly. I would have no issue with a research trophy with lower, but still respectable, stats.

And don't make me start snickering at tailoring and smithing again, because I will.

[eniamn]

i could see maybe a "lesser trophy" but still want the bag. i would be getting it anyway from something else. would be fine with an 8 slot 100wr hold giant bag instead of the 10 slot one too but doubt that will happen. it still takes a whole lotta skill points i could be using for other stuff too.

Bacially no effort to get the same reward as someone who's done tailoring, or smithing.. seems to cheapen the whole idea of what a trophy stands for.

you just happened to pick the two hardest tradeskills to 250 you know. jc, brewing, and to some extent baking are all much easier than tailoring or blacksmithing. they still get trophies. lesser reward is about all i can see here from my sense of fairness.

[Moraganth]

But that was the point.. yes tailoring and smithing are the 2 hardest. Should someone who's gone to 250 in either get the same reward as someone who spends 200 buildpoints? No. And, yes.. brewing and jc are prety easy to get to 250. Research is much easier than those two. So it's the increasing range of what is "worth" a trophy i think that has people saying that brewing and jc should be the lower end of that.

As for tinkering.. LoY made that much easier (which it deserved). Many of the dropped parts are so common now, people don't even buy them from npc vendors (at less than 2 pp per). That may vary dependent on server on that though, obviously.