It's unofficially official...

[Wyloc Wormwood]

nods.
ive got no problem with that mate. a wis or int stat reduser (clouds your mind), perhaps a silence poison to paralise the vocal cords, a good attack debuff etc.
its more the fact that that as a tradeskill (its classed as that even tho we dont Trade them haha, so its trade as in make) no new recipies were added for 2 expansions. if the same thing had happened with Alchemy or Tinkering youd have players screaming blue murder. in fact Alchemy has crossed the line now, where before they were utility with good sale prospects, they now have offence with GoD snare/stun/dd thrown potions. did they need that ontop of upgrades like illusions and group effects?

did you know that for our Slow proc poison we have to go and Fish for our componants? whats more the druation on the self buff is so short that you burn through it fast. the 15min length poisons are way to short but the slow one is well low level.
Paralyzing Neurotoxin : Decrease Attack Speed by 30% for upto 2.0 mins. the buff icon lasts for 2mins, before you have to use another one. ever fished for Blowfish barbs?

anyway that was added with LoY and was fine and great for the lvl of that expansion. however nothing in LDoN or GoD.

you know it didnt even need to new effects to be "upgrades" could of used what was already there increased the buff druation (to something worthwile) or just minor upgrade eg the slow from 30 to 40. its not like we can chain use it, its for trying to solo or when the slower in the group dies; used in a pinch.

i still think as the effects are already there, using Kunark poison effects as procs is whats needed. we have to spend a lot of time and money farming to make them anyway. try farming heartsting venom sacs via meleeing, you can waste hours of playtime on green mobs in a newbie zone for a few (takes 2 venoms to make) doses of oneshot.

or if ideas are really lacking could just take the easy way out and have "Bane" poisons. Ooo we have these new mobs attacking norath, from your vast knowledge, trial & error you find that by mixing cirtain substances you can exploit the weaknesses of these strange creatures.

the stuffs there guys, 2 expansions without anything and you wonder why we are taking a stand and saying "Oi hang on a minute" before you throw yet another expansion out.

[Sauronis]

I feel that even if they do update our poisons with new recipes that most will be under utilized if the components are a royal pain in the arse to come by. I stopped using poisons just for that reason. The time it takes to acquire the necessary items isn't equal in value to the effects of the poisons available. It got a little better with PoP and the ability to make 10 dose bottled versions but the time sink on farming the components remain. Which was slightly helped with the portal stones.

Finding a new way to scatter the needed items throughout the game is key of course. I don't expect to find Wyloc's " heartsting venom sacs" while we clear T3 but it would be nice to see more poison components drop off higher end stuff that could possibly be used or processed for use in other various recipes.

[Talisen]

What would be nice is a Rogue version of the Forage skill that only finds poison reagents. That and actually getting poison glands or blood or some other excretion from mobs that makes a bit of sense as to what it has to do with creating a poison. I would actually prefer to have to farm poison components off of greens than buy them at a merchant, that is if they dropped every kill and the mobs aren't a bitch to find. Maybe a skill that you use on a corpse to find parts for poisons? Oh I know, just make Apply Poison do that! It does nothing else~ or Pickpocket!

Anyone ever try hunting the plants in Emerald Jungle? I did..for 3 hours..for 10 attempts at a poison with a trivial over 300..IN KUNARK..when make poison was maxed at 200, guess how many I successfully made? One. Guess when I used it? I still have yet to find an important enough event to waste it on. That's right, it has sat in my bank for almost 4 REAL YEARS.

Nevermind.. I give up, I find no fun in EQ at all anymore. At first I thought new levels might be fun, then I asked myself "what would I get out of them?" My answer: Requirements for new AA.

Thats all levels are anymore, a requirement to get new AA that once you get the level for you have to save up 5/10/15/20/25 AA in order to get a 5% increase in dodge. I'm sorry but this makes little sense for anything other than to keep people around.

What about hit points you say? What about them? I have 1885hp naked. I have 7000hp with my equipment. Leveling to 70 will give such trivial hp it won't even matter, not with how many stats are on items.

That's another issue I have with EQ at the moment. The stats don't even make sense anymore. Armor Class on weapons/earrings/rings/bows? WTF is that? 200+hp on every slot? Food and drink with stats? I can't wait to see the expansion after Omens of War, we'll be getting 500hp 50ac 30/19 daggers that proc Nibble of the Shissar.

I thought maybe doing the epic 2 will be fun..then I read they're over 30 pages long each and require a full sized raid for the end parts. All of that for "the high end of high end weapons" that we'll bag for better stuff a couple of expansions down the road.

I'm sorry..this is turning into one of those posts.. I'll shush ;\

[Wyloc Wormwood]

*passes Talisen a mug of Ale*

pfft get off that soap-box your making the place look untidy (hhahaha jk mate)

sometimes the steam need to be let out, its frustrating i know. with the stuff thats getting done atm i do still have hope that somewhere in the dark dungeons of SoE a bright spark will come forward waving a crumpled draft of something good.
lets face it tho if they dont put something in OoW (3rd expansion since last titbit) then Poisonmaking is dead or as good as, for its stale. after that anything shiney done to it will just be viewed with scorn and venomed mockery, for it will be to little to late.

oh Talisen a couple of questions for ya.

when was the last time you used your lockpicks?

when was the last time you used your Disarm skill?

when was the last time you used Instill Doubt?

when was the last time you used Sense/Disarm Trap?

all rogue skills like poison making, and yet so many of us are just SoS/Backstab/corpse.

[Talisen]

when was the last time you used your lockpicks?
Veeshan's Peak? Wait..I think there was a locked door in Luclin somewhere..Ssra?

when was the last time you used your Disarm skill?
Best of the Best tournament on test server vs Wendolyn in..2000? 2001?.

when was the last time you used Instill Doubt?
When I was soloing blue con lizards in that long empty hallway in Cazic Thule (Is that was that zone was called? I can't remember..) back in 1999 when I was..mid 30s I think. I had just gotten a Serrated Bone Dirk, I thought I was exploiting using snare and fear as a Rogue so I stopped doing it.

when was the last time you used Sense/Disarm Trap?
Dragon Necropolis..Ssra..oh I used them in Inktu'ta last week. You know, the place that has 5 traps all set right next to each other so you can't tell which you used your skills on.

[Wyloc Wormwood]

aye you see what im getting at tho, rogues are only to aware of it anyway. these are Class skills and mostly pointless now.

you see the vial of poison turn up on Lucy? it appears to be droping off PoV spiders on test. is this the way of things to come? instead of farming for componants ready made poisons will drop instead?

*sighs*

[Talisen]

I don't care what they do anymore..I'm moving on ;\

Was nice meeting you Wyloc! It felt good knowing at least one other rogue wanted to help change stuff:P

[Wyloc Wormwood]

sorry to see ya go Talisen, if you find what we're looking for in something else let us know.

stay safe and happy hunting, was nice to meet you.

i'll carry on trying *shrug* after so long im just to much of a Donkey to quit, well for now anyway.

[Volante]

well, what would be pretty interesting if it worked would be to have some low power poisons drop and get rogues interested and have the more powerful ones created.

a thought...course, i tend to err on the side of optimism in cases like this.

[Wyloc Wormwood]

ok been flicking through the *new stuff* over on lucy.
no wait, calm down Absor drink some tea, i know thats just dat stream stuff, it can change ect but its all some of us have to go on.

Flesh Rot
Increase Poison Counter by 9
Decrease Hitpoints by 45 per tick
1 ticks @L1 to 1.5 mins @L30

from Vein Rot Poison III, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Heart Rot
Increase Poison Counter by 9
Decrease Hitpoints by 40 per tick
1 ticks @L1 to 1.5 mins @L30

from Vein Rot Poison II, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Systemic Destruction
Increase Poison Counter by 9
Decrease HP when cast by 75
Decrease Hitpoints by 80 per tick
1 ticks @L1 to 5 ticks @L10

from Corruption Poison III, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Vascular Inferno
Increase Poison Counter by 9
Decrease HP when cast by 65
Decrease Hitpoints by 73 per tick
1 ticks @L1 to 5 ticks @L10

from Corruption Poison II, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Mental Discord
Decrease Mana by 450
Instant

from Destroy Mind Poison III, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Mind Stir
Decrease Mana by 375
Instant

from Destroy Mind Poison II, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Spinal Disorientation
Decrease Hitpoints by 95
Stun(0.00 sec/65)
Instant

from Concussion Poison III, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Spinning Confusion
Decrease Hitpoints by 85
Stun(0.00 sec/65)
Instant

from Concussion Poison II, buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Heart Blaze
Decrease Hitpoints by 125
Instant

from Strike Poison III , buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

Bloodpyre
Decrease Hitpoints by 125
Instant

from Strike Poison II , buff length 1.3 mins @L1 to 15.0 mins @L47

ok im gonna take a stab in the dark and say that the strike poisons will either have a secondry effect or i hope a damage upgrade as Strike Poison is also 125dd and Lesser Strike poison is 75dd
Concussion Poison is 75 (0sec stun/65 that never does anything) so the grade 3 is a boost of 75>95. umm super, click those Stanos legs guys 20pts is not gonna make rogues use it.
Destroy Mind poison, well ya fine on that (did you guys ever use it?) Decrease Mana by 300 > 375 > 450. numbers look ok for increase but not my bag so leave others to comment on it. same with Corruption Poison & Vein Rot Poison, if DoT's are your thing please comment, i dont use them becuse it makes Escape and all the AA i spent cutting the timer down on it pointless.

ill watch and see what happens on the Strike poison front to see what the final result is, but if this is it? i'll pack my pestal n' morter away for good and advise the new rogues who ask me about poisons to just not bother, save your time and go buy a LDoN proc instead.

anything in that lot that makes the rest of you want to spend your time and cash on?

[Wyloc Wormwood]

ok going back to look at Strike Poison.

lesser strike poison = 75dd

strike poison = 125dd

strike poison 2 = 125dd

strike poison 3 = 125dd

what it should be is

lesser =75

strike =125

strike2 =150 (would like 225)

strike3 = 175 (would like 325)

[Volante]

well that looks boring...

[etitameh]

as a very low-level rogue (only 11), i have no experience with poison making or use, but i do have an idea that i feel may be of interest.

i was thinking of something along the lines of PoP proccing poisons, but as a limited-charge clickie effect instead. for example, a successful application would give the weapon 5 charges of a 5 second stun, with an instant or short (1 second? 2?) cast time, and a 7-10 second recast. the effects would, of course, still be resistable. this way, though, we would be able to strategically time our poison strikes, and would avoid things like proccing a DoT on a mob when it's at 2% health.

thoughts?

edit: (had to retype this, my computer ate it the first time, hope i didn't leave out anything vital )

[Wyloc Wormwood]

hi etitameh,

when you get a bit higher, id be interested in how you feel poisons are, thats not to say i dont value your opinon atm, it just nice sometimes to get a fresh view as ive been doing this for so long.

ok lets break down what you've put forward.

poisons as a right clicky:
well as you may know kunark poisons were a right clicky. you also had to apply it, a skill that is pointless with advanced poisons as there is no skill check. these were one shots and fired off the first hit after application (as long as you didnt die/LD or zone) and the effect was classed as being the rogue was imbued with poison not a weapon; so it could fire off either hand striking.
now you want to imbue a weapon with a poison that has charges that you can use at will?
ok i dont think thats going to work mate, i would beleave thats going to be a radical code rewrite and more work than i expect our lovely devs would be willing to put into the skill.
now if you mean we would make a poison, stackable poison that would sit in gen slot or ammo that was insta cast/clicky then fired off next hit/cast at the target in effect with a single result. eg stackable kunark poisons with instant apply (no having to sit) then i agree yes its what i would like to see.

note you would still have to spend time farming and making poisons, which a lot of rogues detest. but when you had made them and stocked up your bags ready for adventure you would have something worthwhile to be used and counted on, not some iffy random proc.

something that Absor brought up way back in this discusion, was that he didnt want poisons to be to good thus forcing the rogues who dont want to make poison feel they need to. well atm what about those rogues who do (or rather did) spend a lot of time with poisons for damage upgrade thats less than a ldon proc. whats the point? one could retort that if they dont spend the time making something usefull them then thats their loss. atm there is very little reason to make poison at high end, the difference between damage output of a grandmaster lvl 65 poisoner and lvl 65 rogue is all with equipment, poisons have little to no impact on it. if both rogues were of the same equipment lvl you would be hard pressed to spot the difference. so why bother ?

anyway before cloud your path to much i better leave it at that. enjoy your adventuring and have fun on the way, dont rush it, take your time. poisons can be great fun at low levels and can mean the difference between life n death. alas it doesnt translate to the higher end of the game.

[Wyloc Wormwood]

ok here the stuff submitted by Grabbit our Rogue Class Correspondent, i dont know if our Tradeskill Rep pokes around here at all *shrug* but anyway here it is.

1. Poisons -

A. Integrate all old world poisons into the PoP poison system (including the ability to make 10 dose vials with the 10-15 min durations)

B. Make poisons more viable by modifying the resist checks so they aren't so easily resisted.

C. Add new, interesting, and more powerful poison recipes. Extremely powerful, but extremely rare poisons would be a nice addition.

D. Add an upgrade to the poison mastery AA that would allow increased durations, effectiveness, and the ability to poison others weapons.

E. Reduce the time investment required to collect components for lesser or more common poisons. Possibly through a better yield in combines or more components being made purchasable.

F. Add the ability to poison thrown weapons.