It's unofficially official...

[Slippyblade]

In a recent thread on the EQ Live message boards, Absor said something that confirmed our worst fears. There ARE NO NEW POISON recipes in GoD. Seems we wasted our time doing the combine quest thing for the poison vendors in Abysmal Sea and all that Muramite Blood Distalatte I've been saving is garbage. Yay. Go Sony.

We are fully aware that some tradeskills didn't get enough attention in Gates (Tinkers got more the Poison Makers and you don't hear them cryin!).

- Absor

Go here for the whole thread.

Man this sucks. Oh well.

[Turlo Lomon]

If you read down a few pages, I commented about this statement by Absor. Oh well.

[Draggar]

Rogues don't cry or complain.

They get even.

We'll just use our 'weak' poisons in the dev's backs when they're sleeping.

Hmm, bite of shissar or Oozing irritation?

[Slippyblade]

Oozing Irritation is my personal favorite. It just sounds like a REALLY nasty jock-itch or something.

[Wyloc Wormwood]

makes me wonder as to why we even have a section in eqtraders, the dev team dont seam to regard poison as a tradeskill, pfft LDoN, GoD ... nothing. the effects for work is pittyful. a grandmaster poisoner should be someone you dont want comming after you. instead we farm low level mobs for hours for a few drops for 1 shots that may/maynot get resisted. the proc poisons well you know you can never count on a proc going off when you need it and the proc effects are just way to weak. cant sell them because only rogues can use them, we cant even use it for utility and poison weapons for our group members (if it was worth it)
wonder why so many rogues dont bother with it (apart from getting the seal) because it aint that big a deal. it could be so much more, but the way its implimented well it really aint worth it. yes and thats comming for a rogue with 250 poison making, all grandmaster tradeskill trophys and mr Grimels earing.

[Turlo Lomon]

The reason this forum exists is because people like myself pestered Niami to have it created. I was truly hoping that with LDoN and GoD that we would have a lot more to investigate together. However, it does not appear to be the case.

I have not given up. I am a grandmaster poisoner. I am an assassin. We will have our time.

[Draggar]

We will have our time.

We also have hide and sneak.

Pick pockets, intimidation, pick locks, sence and disarm traps, disarm...

Ah, yes, we have plenty of time.

[AbsorEQ]

If you folks want to send ideas to me about stuff you'd like to see (that isn't crazy insane), please do. Or post them here.

The more ideas we have on tap the better.

A

[Draggar]

How abot allowing poisoned-dipped arrows? (Use apply poison skill, but on the range slot?).

It's hard to come up with ideas without stepping on the toes of other TS's, I was thinking beneficial "poisons" but then that would intrude on alchemy,

Maybe a healing cream (who knows how many hit points?) made in the M&P?

Let's take a look at what we have for poisons:

DD
DOT
Stun
Stun + DD
Undead
Root
Beserker (+haste -str)
weakness
feeble mind
Summoned (?)

What about specific direct damage (Like Burning blood - DD + Fire damage, Spine Chill, DD + Cold damage etc..)?

What about multi-dose poisons, or are those kept as a 'reward' for those who have completed the GM trophy and the quest?

Edit: I do have to admit, the poisons you "drink" and adds a proc to you (long lasting poison?) are *extremely* nice.

[Draggar]

I don't think we need anything huge and glorious (we're rogues, we don't like huge and glorious, leave that for the other TS'ers).

No trumpets, no whistles, no huge fanfaires, just something suttle.

[Wyloc Wormwood]

*grabs his chest at the shock of Absor asking *

lol thanks anyway, tho i wonder if it just cos we responded to your comment on the tinkering post.

ok what do you want us work around? the one shot outdated Kunark poisons? or the random procing PoP poisons?
at the time Kunark poisons effects were ok, however the time spent farming and making something that that didnt stack and went off on the first hit to get resisted was pita.
PoP poisons while we thank you guys for getting round to doing something with rogue Poisons the effects on these coupled with fails and cost just dont make them worth it really.

so ok going on that your gonna do a broad sweeping hand motion and say just throw ideas around.

atm poison has very little value, it cirtanly wont make a group go hey lets have a rogue with us... they have that great Make Poison class skill. even if we do spend half our gaming time farming and making poisons to use in groups it wont make a huge difference. well not much difference at all really "ive been using poisons for the past hour" and the reply "you have? we couldnt tell"

so we come back to chucking in the ideas.

let rogues apply poisons (get to use their apply skill) eg the PoP buff ones to other people. soandso applys a thick poison to your blades.

take all the effects from the old kunark poisons and apply them to the new pop system eg the oneshot effect working as a proc.

the PoP poison effects atm are just way to weak as to make them not really worth it. make these effects x2 or even x3 and it maybe worth while.
the lowering resist poisons? comon lowering a resist by 5 dont do much to a mob or even a player.

if a procing poison or one shot is applied then it should work on what ever eg why not thrown daggers or arrows. pfft with a supply of 2k dot procing poisons and a bow a Grandmaster poisoner should make people go "hell hes after me please buff my poison resist!!!"
DD poisons at grandmaster lvl 250 with seal ect the most deadly poison i can sneak up with and stab in the back with is Mind Melt (kunark 1 shot) for 555dd and still has a high triv. thats less than a single good backstab, ok yes the damage of this is from Kunark, we're now past killing Gods after Time and fighting invaders from the realm of Discord; a Kunark lvl poison is the best DD wecan count on? the Bite of the Shissar 125dd proc? oh come on please 125 damage even 3or4 procs of it on a mob aint going to do much hardly advanced poison is it?

ok you get the idea, stronger poisons that aint a waste of time for high grandmaster poisoners (a lot stronger) and make them work for all weapons including other player classes (applied by a rogue)

[Koru]

How about letting rogues refine items for other trades? The chance of poison being allowed to other classes is almost nil, I think most of us know this. Especially when combined with the limits of the current EQ engine. So instead lets ask ourselves, what would give the skill marketable products that could be sold to non-rogues? Rogues take glands and such things and refine the slightly poisonous parts to become quite potent. It's not too big a stretch to think a class that regularly works with quicksilver and lead can find other applications for their skills.

One such solution would be to let rogues refine some materials to make other usable materials. Now traditionally you could say refining metals should go to either smithing (which already has upgrading metal into bigger pieces) or alchemy. However EQ alchemists deal only in plants. They're really herbalists more than alchemists. Rogues are the ones who traditionally use the non-smithable metallic substances in the game. There's already prescedence for letting rogues make some of the cultural components such as drops of mercury for dwarf temper. The skill limit is even fairly formidable on that, needs a skill of 200+ to be able to do it. How about the same for morning dew for example? There's been some quests that need rogue poisons made as well. A good call and that could be continued in future quests.

How about letting rogues make components for new recipies? By including cross-skill components you increase trade and interaction between the various classes, in many cases it adds a bit of rarity as well. Say you have Breastplate of the Zodiac. To make it would require a special mold of the rhino (pottery), cheeta leather padding (tailoring), sheets of elephant's metal (smithing), oiled chain joints of the fish (JC+brewing), and chameleon temper (brewing) as well as 3 essences. One essence of the bear (alchemy made). One essence of the eagle (imbued gem) and one essence of the snake (poison made). Or a new weapons recipe, do the recipe bare and get an ok weapon, however put in a poisonous rogue-made contraption and get the same weapon but with a minor proc.

Just naming an example of how the chores of making an item can be logically split up. As it is EQ recipies are very bare, very basic in both what they take to create and what they yield. Some require the occasional imbued gem, but beyond that most components are completely logical and mundane (in a fantasy sort of way). The problem with make poison as a trade skill isn't that poisons suck, it's that they have no value to anyone outside of rogues. Your market in that case is only a fraction of what it could be, that's not even counting how many of the poisons are no drop. The solution would probably not be to give everyone poisons as it would upset balance and still with poisons the way they are not make them terribly useful. But instead to give the skill a use outside of only making pure straight-up poisons for use against mobs. The first step in that has already been taken in allowing refining of poison ingredients for other trades.

[Draggar]

*
atm poison has very little value, it cirtanly wont make a group go hey lets have a rogue with us... they have that great Make Poison class skill. even if we do spend half our gaming time farming and making poisons to use in groups it wont make a huge difference. well not much difference at all really "ive been using poisons for the past hour" and the reply "you have? we couldnt tell"

No, the groups grab us because of our DPS, out quickness, stealth, ability to scout out areas (I've devoloped a tactic, I sneak in a room, I target something, and the mez'er assists me and mezzes the target, easy and safe way to mez a room with mobs by the door).

We backstab, my double backstab is now hitting up to 750 and a single up to 500, quickly adds in (although it's nothing compared to a good nuke).

I think we're a very good class, although hard to play and level. When you get up there, your power increases exponentially.

As for posisons, lower level multi-dose poisons, and proc high-damage (no 50 point, I'm talking 200 point DD or a nice DoT poison), and my beef, poison tipped arrows.

[javalin]

i would be for making more potentant poisons as already stated also would it be too hard to either convert all the old recipies to pop style of poison or come up with new recipies that did the same

[Draggar]

Hmm, essence of snake...

In an M&P:

1 - Lined / sealed poison vial
1 - Snake venom sack
1 - Asp venom sack
1 - giant snake fang

Yields 1, trivial at 125.

We could have other "essences" such as spider (spider venom sack, spider silk, spicerling silk), essence of undead (bone chips, darkbone marrow, icebone chips etc), the possibilities are endless, and mainly sticking with rogue-related mobs.