WARNING - SoF jewelry gems now attunable

[EloMist]

Why weren't these bugs tested and fixed during beta? You would think that when a major change like this goes live they would have at least tested it to make sure problems like this do not go live.

Yeah, you would think, huh?

Were you in BETA?
Did you try to be in BETA?

Try and cut them a break. Too few developers doing too many things, and only a handful of VOLUNTEERS that actually wanted to do more than get a preview of the uber lewts or ensure their class supremacy makes for a few cracks to slip through.

Plus, while I can't personally verify that these things DID work in BETA, I do know that there was definately a difference caused by the transition from BETA to LIVE. Don't know why or how, but it happened. A great many things that worked fine on BETA do not work on live at this moment, and no amount of testing would change that.

This is an inconvenience that will be fixed as quickly as possible.

No I'm not trying to defend Ngreth, he's quite capable (I know). I'm trying to defend all the devs, as they ALL busted a hump to get SoF released on-time in a mostly functional fashion despite some really horrible stuff in the middle of the test/release cycle, and they did a fine job of it.

I'm sorry for your personal loses, but it's a temporary set back for an awesome system. Give it time to get the kinks worked out. BETA isn't all that we might think it is.

Yeah, I'm probably hanging myself out to dry... again. <sigh>

[Sam DeathWalker]

So far all I been doing is buying stuff.

Problems don't get settled until 2 weeks after the release anyway or so, Ill log in and play then heh...

Ya with zillions of lines of code, one small change here affecting a ton of things elsewhere, and the people who wrote the original code long gone its a wonder things work as well as they do.

Its the same procedure every expansion... I dont spend time logging in and out and whatnot anymore until everything is basically stable.

[Ngreth Thergn]

We had to do it to stop the crash bugs, and the possible bank wipes that were happening. It just had to happen right away.

[Roanne]

Too few developers doing too many things

When did this become an acceptable excuse for mediocrity?

Im sure the whole SoE team (and not just developers) *want* to produce a top quality product, but this kind of sentiment and acceptance just serves to ensure more of the same in the future. EQ is a commercial endeavor, not a free game maintained by volunteers.

I also see this specific problem as in the sphere of the coders, and not development. I believe Ngreth had every reason to believe the jewelcrafting revamp would work the way he intended. In fact, if it had worked, it'd be one of the more innovative features of the expansion, imo. I dont fault him specifically.

But it doesnt work. It causes significantly worse problems in other ways such that a stop gap quick fix that completely undermines the entire revamp had to be implemented.

And unfortunately I dont think the problem will get the attention it deserves. Ruining jewelcrafting this way will make the overall game "stable", and because artisans are a minority subculture of the overall EQ population so used to muddled implementation in this aspect of the game that we rave about any minor improvement any way we can get it the focus will remain on more levels, more spells, and more mountain lions that hit harder than Quarm.

They may get around to fixing it eventually but I dont believe it will be with the sense of urgency this specific community gives the problem.

[Elfdruidess]

Also a test.

I had an augged Trio worn on char before "Attunable" patch.

After patch, the augs say Attunable but not No Trade.

I took off the Trio from char. No change.

I re-wear the Trio on char. No change. No msg to ask for attuning. No change to item. It's still just Attunable and not No Trade.

I put the Trio into birdbath. No change.

I remove the augs using birdbath. No change.

I re-put the augs into Trio using birdbath. Now they change to No Trade. No msg asking for attuning as previously stated.

So the "No Trade" tag is added at the step where augs are put into Trio using birdbath. It's technically not really an attuning process.

[Roanne]

I believe attunable augmentations have always worked this way. They become NO TRADE when they are placed in gear, not when said gear is first equipped. I cant remember if I ever got a request box when doing this with the OoW augs. The new "feature" this time however is that the augmentations are stackable and when any attuned aug hits the stack, the whole stack becomes attuned without a request box.

[EloMist]

When did this become an acceptable excuse for mediocrity?

Im sure the whole SoE team (and not just developers) *want* to produce a top quality product, but this kind of sentiment and acceptance just serves to ensure more of the same in the future. EQ is a commercial endeavor, not a free game maintained by volunteers.

I also see this specific problem as in the sphere of the coders, and not development. I believe Ngreth had every reason to believe the jewelcrafting revamp would work the way he intended. In fact, if it had worked, it'd be one of the more innovative features of the expansion, imo. I dont fault him specifically.

But it doesnt work. It causes significantly worse problems in other ways such that a stop gap quick fix that completely undermines the entire revamp had to be implemented.

And unfortunately I dont think the problem will get the attention it deserves. Ruining jewelcrafting this way will make the overall game "stable", and because artisans are a minority subculture of the overall EQ population so used to muddled implementation in this aspect of the game that we rave about any minor improvement any way we can get it the focus will remain on more levels, more spells, and more mountain lions that hit harder than Quarm.

They may get around to fixing it eventually but I dont believe it will be with the sense of urgency this specific community gives the problem.

It was not my intent to excuse anything. Nor should my acceptance of an overloaded workforce, and sympathy thereof, be construed as "mediocrity" towards a broken implementation.

My intent was to redirect the frustration in the proper direction and perspective.

You point out that it is a commercial endeavor, and that means profit margin, which further means balancing income against operating costs. I'm not an economics guru but I know that somewhere in there that means what I am willing to pay to play directly affects how many people can work on making the game better and at what rate.

If you want this fixed without regard to normal operating costs, overtime, illness, and real life in general... Start up a campaign to raise the rates we pay to play (because there is no chance you will be able to reduce the cost of electricy, internet bandwidth, taxes, licensing, insurance, etc etc etc) AND convince SOE "powers that be" (director, board, ?) to use this increased revenue to hire more coders, devs, assistants, ad infinitum.

Because I'm not willing to pay an extra XXX dollars a month per account, and couldn't speak for the other umpteen thousands of players even if I was, I think it is reasonable to trust that the workforce in place will fix this as soon as they can (just like they said they would, and there is precedent to trust that), and in 3 years I'll think back about it and laugh just like I do every time I read all the gripes about downtime after a new expansion and remember the soup sandwich at Shadows of Luclin release.

No niche community gets the attention it believes it deserves. Maybe I don't like that in this case either... so what.

As I said, I'm not excusing, but the problem was noted, addressed with available information... maybe more than we deserved to know, and will eventually be resolved in a way that will allow the overall game to not suffer. That I choose not to put a bullet through the engine block when the radiator springs a leak, does not excuse the car from needing to be a hundred miles away in two hours, it's just common sense.

[KyrosKrane]

Just a random comment on the understaffed thing...

http://www.station.sony.com/sonyonline/careers.vm

There are several job openings for EQ programmers.

[Roanne]

What you describe is the essence of mediocrity. Par for the course. Not outstanding. Just whats expected. Business as usual.

I disagree that beta is the proper direction and perspective to direct frustration of the issue. In fact, the symptom of players crashes related to this underlying problem was reported in beta and still forwarded to live servers. Beta is a useful tool, but responsibility remains with the representatives of SoE.

Im not looking to start a revolution. If I didnt have sympathy and care for the game, I wouldnt bother saying anything at all.

I personally wouldnt mind paying more for an idealized vision of a bug-free game. Unfortunately, no amount of money would ever be enough. Its still no reason to settle for mediocrity.

[Bobaten]

Also a test.

I had an augged Trio worn on char before "Attunable" patch.

After patch, the augs say Attunable but not No Trade.

I took off the Trio from char. No change.

I re-wear the Trio on char. No change. No msg to ask for attuning. No change to item. It's still just Attunable and not No Trade.

I put the Trio into birdbath. No change.

I remove the augs using birdbath. No change.

I re-put the augs into Trio using birdbath. Now they change to No Trade. No msg asking for attuning as previously stated.

So the "No Trade" tag is added at the step where augs are put into Trio using birdbath. It's technically not really an attuning process.

Every thing you described worked exactly as it should have. That's exactly the attuning process. Armor becomes attuned when you wear it for the first time, augments become attuned when you insert them. Augments already pop up a message asking "Are you sure?" so they don't have a second one. This is not new. This is the definition of attunable. Tradeskillers have been dealing in attunable augments for over 3 years now (in fact, as far as I know, the only attunable augments that are not tradeskilled are the raw OoW augs..and those are tradeskill components). This is how it works. Somewhere on this board there is a post by the programmer who implemented attuning. He was specifically instructed to set it to happen when the augment was inserted and not when the augmented item is worn. If you look up Attunable in the Knowledge Base you find:

Some of the new Omens of War items will now display an "Attunable" attribute, which means that they can be traded freely until they are equipped or augmented. Attunable augments will become no-drop flagged when added to an augment slot, attunable items will become no-drop when equipped.

"Viral" attuning making a whole stack no trade, on the other hand, is not a desired result. Though I am curious..is the reverse true? Does adding an attuned augment to a stack of non attuned augments, have the same result as adding a non-attuned augment to a stack of attuned augments?

[EloMist]

There are several job openings for EQ programmers.

This is not bad news. I already appreciate the direction things are going. Fill some spots, and six months to a year from now... awesome!

[Roanne]

"Viral" attuning making a whole stack no trade, on the other hand, is not a desired result. Though I am curious..is the reverse true? Does adding an attuned augment to a stack of non attuned augments, have the same result as adding a non-attuned augment to a stack of attuned augments?

This situation was described by someone elsewhere in the forum. I forget the exact thread. The result of adding an attuned augmentation to a stack of non-attuned augmentations is to make the entire stack attuned with no requester box.

[Bobaten]

WOOT! Discovery!
OK.. if you have a stack of attuned, and add a non-attuned, they are all attuned. If you have a stack of non-attuned, and add an attuned, they are all non-attuned. So if you accidently attuned a stack with auto inventory, you can undo it.

[Flehmen]

So if you add an attuned to a stack of non-attuned, you say they stay non-attuned? I think you wrote it backwards 'cause if that were the case then the issue wouldn't be an issue, right?

[Bobaten]

Nope, the way I wrote is is correct.
The reason the issue came up in the first place is people were cutting new augs, hitting autoinventory, and they stacked with an aug they all ready had in inventory that was attuned.

To make this clear.. any augment stacks you have in inventory keep their status, and any augments you add to those stacks take on the pre-existing status of that stack.