Announcement

**Vreush** · 11-05-2003, 06:33 PM

They never cease to amaze.

Platinum Lapis Lazuli

Enchanted before the patch
[Sun Nov 02 22:47:17 2003] Audri Deepfacet tells you, 'I'll give you 109 platinum 6 gold 2 silver 3 copper for the Platinum Lapis Lazuli Necklace.'

Enchanted after the patch:
[Wed Nov 05 18:38:41 2003] Audri Deepfacet tells you, 'I'll give you 100 platinum 9 silver for the Platinum Lapis Lazuli Necklace.'

Un-Enchanted after the patch:
[Wed Nov 05 19:26:09 2003] Audri Deepfacet tells you, 'I'll give you 104 platinum 8 gold 5 silver 6 copper for the Platinum Lapis Lazuli Necklace.'

**eniamn** · 11-05-2003, 07:22 PM

lol. now if you enchant you make less. enchanters have no edge in skill up combines now. on another note. lapus lazuli costs what 1pp at most? pp bar is 105ish i think. does the enchanted bar sell back for less the same or more now?

**Phrajile** · 11-05-2003, 08:27 PM

Haha Eniamn, I can see where u are going with this train of thought

**quas** · 11-05-2003, 10:39 PM

I cant speak about the jewelry... but they nerfed the silvered weapons. They used to sell for 83pp. Today, they sell for 17pp

8(

**Phrajile** · 11-05-2003, 11:47 PM

Yup, something majorly screwed up here...

< Merchant Buy Back Rate >
Golden Diamond Mask - 220pp (UN-enchanted)

Golden Diamond mask - 210pp (ENchanted)

Either this was not meant to be, or SOE wants everyone else who does not have easy access to Enchanted Metals to achieve GM JC easier.

Sux to those of us who had to enchant/craft, med med med, enchant/craft, med med med to enjoy the same benefits before this.

**Mdaisy** · 11-06-2003, 07:36 AM

I am skilling up on Gold... pre patch an Enchanted Gold Malachite Bracelet sold to vendor for 11pp 9 cp, after the patch an Enchanted gold malachite bracelet sold for 10 pp 2 sp 9 cp and an unenchanted gold malachite bracelet sold to the vendor for 10pp 5g 2sp 9 cp.

Making jewelcrafting more expensive but faster skill ups... dont have to spend the time enchanting metal anymore.

**Rewde** · 11-06-2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by quas
I cant speak about the jewelry... but they nerfed the silvered weapons. They used to sell for 83pp. Today, they sell for 17pp

8(

Not a nerf. Fixing of an exploitation.

**andyhre** · 11-06-2003, 10:02 AM

Yes, I have some data

I thought maybe I had discovered this, but apparently people are way ahead of me. This morning I worked on my JC, going from 189 to 198 (yay for me). An enchanter friend who is out of the country for a week had left me with about six stacks of enchanted gold, so I was trying to use it only when it would really benefit me.

So after I finished Gold+Opal and I moved to starting to make Golden Fire Wedding Rings, I was going to switch to my enchanted gold, but I had a few bars of regular gold left over, so I made those first.

Imagine my shock on sell-back to find that the enchanted Gold Fire Wedding Rings sold back for exactly 60pp while the unenchanted sold back for 62.857. The cost, by the way, of the inputs was 10.499 for the gold and 52.499 for the gem, so even ignoring failures (and I did have a few), this is not a profit center. However, it certainly struck me as either a change in philosophy or a bug.

And in truth, it might not be so bad (from a seller's point of view)as a change in philosphy, even if it makes no sense logically to pay less for the better ring -- skiller-uppers will make unenchanted, and the enchanted ones will be generally be sold to players (why go through the trouble of enchanting unless you DON'T plan to VT it?). It might make it possible for the price of the rings to creep up a bit, making mid-level JC a bit more profitable.

Anyway, when I hit Gold+Star Ruby, I tested again.

Input Costs: 10.499+68.249
Magical Ring Sell Back: exactly 75pp
Non-Magical Ring Sell Back: 78.571, still not profitable, but favoring store-bought gold.

Had I gotten one more skill up, I would have tested Fire Emeralds, but I will have to leave that to another person or day.

Andy

**Velurian** · 11-06-2003, 10:18 AM

I think some change was necessary to fix a problem introduced a bit ago with the change in failure rate for very trivial combines.

When you could sell the enchanted items at a slight profit, once you hit 250, you could make items that trivial at 50 or below with no failures, sell them back to the vendor, and have an absolutely iron-clad, zero-risk profit. This wasn't a big problem, as it's limited to fairly cheap materials, so the profit per combine was small, but it's dead against the philosophy that Sony seems to have on vendor-sold combines -- that you shouldn't be able to just sit in front of a vendor and make a profit.

They've overreacted, certainly, but something had to be done.

**eniamn** · 11-06-2003, 12:15 PM

glad silvered picks were fixed. no more temptation to the dark side now. i bet they figured it for oak bow shafts instead of oak shatfs. 72pp makes a difference.

**Demasia** · 11-06-2003, 07:44 PM

bah

Not a nerf. Fixing of an exploitation.

Pfft. To suggest it was an exploitation that has existed since release is lacking in intellectual honesty and is insulting. This "fix" just made is so level 65 enchanters with JCM 3 have wasted their AA's unless they are in an elemental guild. Yay.

Classes that can forage still enjoy competitive advantages in certain tradeskills, yet people whined that enchanters (please take note of the name of our class) enjoyed an advantage when enchanting. Whoop Di Doo! A level 65 enchanter could click for a mind numbing 1-2k plat profit per hour.

NEWS FLASH! Those level 65 enchanters now have their options reduced to farming with the bards, necros, mages and druids. So now instead of sitting quietly in corner and affecting noone, those level 65 enchanters will expose themselves to greater risks <laugh> in places where they can farm for 5-20k per hour. The real difference is that we will be affecting others.

Rewards in EQ have always been a functional result of risk, time and/or guild tag. Why should time doing tradeskills not be rewarding for those who master them? In fact, one could argue that tradeskills are the only area in the game wherein one's accomplishments are purely their own. Noone could start a character today and surpass the accomplishments in tradeskills of thousands of other more veteran players simply by joining a certain guild, but this patch changed that.

Unfortunately, there are whining selectively opportunistic socialists and wannabe GM apologists who will find joy with this change and other similar reactions by Sony to the squeaky wheels.

**Maevenniia** · 11-06-2003, 09:21 PM

Re: bah

Originally posted by Demasia
<snip>Whoop Di Doo! A level 65 enchanter could click for a mind numbing 1-2k plat profit per hour.

The point is, people using macro-bots could do this indefinitely, generating millions of plat for sale on various auction sites. So the nerf was necessary, because the recently lowered failure rate for items that are extremely trivial coupled with lowered failure rate due to JCM3 = exploiter heaven.

Yes, once again the few ruin a good thing for the many.

NEWS FLASH! Those level 65 enchanters now have their options reduced to farming with the bards, necros, mages and druids. So now instead of sitting quietly in corner and affecting noone, those level 65 enchanters will expose themselves to greater risks <laugh> in places where they can farm for 5-20k per hour. The real difference is that we will be affecting others.

It's supposed to be a social game, people are supposed to interact, so yes, chanters will now have to go out into the 'world' and xp & hope for tradeskill drops like everyone else.

Rewards in EQ have always been a functional result of risk, time and/or guild tag. Why should time doing tradeskills not be rewarding for those who master them? In fact, one could argue that tradeskills are the only area in the game wherein one's accomplishments are purely their own. Noone could start a character today and surpass the accomplishments in tradeskills of thousands of other more veteran players simply by joining a certain guild, but this patch changed that.

Time doing tradeskills IS rewarding, if you like tradeskills. If you are just doing them for the plat, you could easily farm items to sell much faster.

As for the guild tag comment, I'm not in an uber guild, I rarely get access to the high-level tradeskill components (although I get lucky sometimes vendor mining) and I'm doing pretty weel (no millions-of-plat well, but good enough

)

Unfortunately, there are whining selectively opportunistic socialists and wannabe GM apologists who will find joy with this change and other similar reactions by Sony to the squeaky wheels.

Such comments are inflammatory, and smack of SOE bashing. Let's keep it civil and not degenerate this into a rant.

**Astroshak** · 11-07-2003, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Rewde
Not a nerf. Fixing of an exploitation.

Originally posted by Demasia
Pfft. To suggest it was an exploitation that has existed since release is lacking in intellectual honesty and is insulting

The "fix" or "nerf" (take your pick, pun intended) to silvered weapons is something that I'm not happy to see, I made a lot of plat off of this. Was it an exploit? Probably; I doubt that Sony wanted anyone to make a lot of plat off of anything like this. Personally, I'm leaning to "fix" instead of "nerf" . . . and thats because spending 40 or 41 plat in materials, to make items you can sell back for over 250 plat, is a bit overpowered. Do the math; at 17 plat and change sellback, one pick almost makes back the cost of the HQ brick. Two picks almost make back the cost of both bricks. The third more than covers the difference, as well as the shafts and bars and water. The profit is simply not nearly as great.

I just wish that these sellback changes (silvered weapons, JC combines, anything else they changed) was in the patch message.

Don't know if Sony employees come here and read every thread, but when there's a change in vendor pricing, I'd like to know about it in the patch message. Silvered Picks, JC sellbacks, neither of these were mentioned. My only question is, why not wait until the end of the patch to put the patch message in the queue, and ensure that everything that was affected by the patch is in the message? Wouldn't stop the complaining, but it would eliminate the suprise factor. The world is intended to be dynamic; but some things are expected to remain the same, and the prices that vendors give and ask for should not be one of them without a pausible, in game, reason.

**Mdaisy** · 11-07-2003, 08:12 AM

Ok so now we have it....
A. Sony doesnt care what you think... as long as you pay the monthly bill.
B. Sony doesnt want you to make money off the game... weither in RL or in Game.
C. Jewelcrafting is easy and cheap. Even with this patch it is still one of the easiest tradeskills to get to GM in. Now it will just be a little more expensive. But still cheap.
D. It is still enchanted metals that will make money... only now we have to sell in the bazaar overnight and weekends. Have a second account (Sony makes more money) as a trader full time.

I am a traderskill person.. I love playing the game and making items. I have made money in RL by selling the little things I have learned. There are still items in the game that can be created from vendors, combined and sold back to vendors for a profit. But the real pp has always been selling to players.

I do not agree with Sony on the 'fixing' of the price issue. Enchanted should sell for more than non-enchanted... takes an extra skill and exp to do it. I do not agree with Sony on the Unannounced 'fix'. But, as a customer I have three choices... live with it (which I will) or complain to Sony (which I will also do) or quit. If enough customers complain and/or leave, Sony will 'fix' it as well.

Announcement

Unconfirmed? - Change in Merchant Buy Back ?

Unconfirmed? - Change in Merchant Buy Back ?

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